www.tdiclub.com

Economy - Longevity - Performance
The #1 Source of TDI Information on the Web!
Forums Articles Links Meets
Orders TDI Club Cards TDIFest 2016 Gone, but not forgotten VAG-Com List Unit Conversions TDIClub Chat Thank You

Order your TDIClub merchandise and help support TDIClub


Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > General Automotive

General Automotive General automotive discussion. This is intended to be a discussion about other not VW and Diesel cars you may have or interested in.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old Yesterday, 15:43   #5716
ticaf
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: baltimore, MD
Default

Well, we are already subsidizing EVs and more.
ticaf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 02:04   #5717
Tin Man
Veteran Member
 
Tin Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Coastal Empire
Fuel Economy: 51/40/30 TDI PD, 42/37/32 535d, 52/46/42 XE 2.0d
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ticaf View Post
Well, we are already subsidizing EVs and more.
Can't wait to see the virtue-signaling and enviro-shaming to stop - when reality hits.


Human nature, unfortunately, needs to change. The thought of sharing charging infrastructure with the public is rarely if ever discussed. How many charging stations will have a waiting line or be damaged by normally careless public citizens? When with people realize they are exposed to theft and robbery or worse in lonely charging areas? Infrastructure will need to be secure and safe for travelers. Covid-19 has made traveling in "cattle car" public transit or "highly infectious" ride-hailing "solutions" somewhat dicey.


Americans need to adapt to change, but hopefully not too much to mob mentality. Policing is under attack but is necessary for EV infrastructure and is expensive.....
__________________
'16 535d, '17 XE 2.0d, '04 NB TDI PD DSG
"We see things not as they are, but as we are."-- H. M. Tomlinson
"Once I make up my mind, I'm full of indecision."-- Oscar Levant
Tin Man is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 04:55   #5718
AntonLargiader
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Charlottesville, VA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tikal View Post
Define "mainstream" please.

Here, it shows EVs penetration in the US as 0.5% in the US for Q1 2020, the lowest among many industrialized countries (tied with Italy):
We all probably define that for ourselves; I don't know that it's any certain market share. EVs are standard, off-the-lot products that people just go and buy and use. They aren't experimental or just for EV geeks. People buy them who don't give a hoot what's under the bodywork; they just want something to work and it does. I see them in line at the school across the street and I see them all over town. Half a percent, 1 out of 200 cars, maybe not even that. But they aren't rare or special. I think ziplines, sandboxes, pools and swingsets are pretty mainstream but the actual rate of adoption in backyards isn't very high.

Someone asked why pro-EV people are posting here. I've been driving diesel VWs for 40 years and posting here for 20 years, but when I need to drive around town I grab the Volt any time I can. WAY better user experience in certain ways. Gas station once every six months, tops.

And that user experience gets to another straw man from maybe five pages ago that claimed EVs needed to be cost competitive with certain other cars in the same market segment, whatever that is. NO!! People don't buy EVs because they cost the same as some ICE car, they buy them because they're EVs. You wouldn't shop a $3000 sailboat against a $3000 motorboat if you wanted a sailboat. There's no magic in the price of an EV dropping to that of some sort-of-similar (but fundamentally different) car.
__________________
Anton Largiader, Charlottesville VA
Awesome red wagon w/Bosal hitch.
AntonLargiader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 07:07   #5719
IndigoBlueWagon
TDIClub Enthusiast
Principal IDParts
Vendor
w/Business number
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: South of Boston
Fuel Economy: 50/45/37
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonLargiader View Post
People don't buy EVs because they cost the same as some ICE car, they buy them because they're EVs.
I think this is what a lot of manufacturers are just now figuring out. And it advantages Tesla, because if you see a Tesla you know it's an EV. If you see a BMW or Audi, EV, people probably first assume it's and ICE vehicle, becuase that's what they've historically built. So it doesn't have the cachet of a Tesla.

VW creating a new brand may help them capture some of that exclusivity they wouldn't have if their EV line were branded VW. We'll see. It's not a lot different from when manufacturers create separate brands for luxury cars. VW learned the hard way that no one wants to buy an $80K VW.

And regarding costs, people already typically spend more money on a car than they have to. So paying a premium for an EV isn't a new thing. If it was, we'd all be driving around in 10 year old Hyundais.
__________________
2002 Jetta wagon, 412K, RC3+; 1993 Mercedes-Benz 300D 2.5, 199K; 1997 Passat, 289K; '99.5 Golf, 262K; 2011 335d, 64K; 2015 Golf Sportwagen, 14K. Principal, http://www.idparts.com
Kid's cars: 2002 Golf TDI, 2002 Jetta TDI, 2015 Passat TDI SEL
IndigoBlueWagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 07:25   #5720
AntonLargiader
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Charlottesville, VA
Default

Well, you're talking cachet there and I'm talking just the practical part. Heck, a friend of mine wants an EV but can't buy a Model 3, even though it's cost-competitive, because she "can't be seen driving around in a Tesla" for appearance reasons. So the cachet cuts both ways.

I think a lot of people who want an EV just look at what it costs and what they get. Maybe some extra money up front, no gas station visits, silence, no tunnel in the interior, leave with a "full tank" every morning, no ICE maintenance and petro products everywhere, etc. So when I say they buy it because it's an EV, that's the stuff I'm talking about.
__________________
Anton Largiader, Charlottesville VA
Awesome red wagon w/Bosal hitch.
AntonLargiader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 08:40   #5721
IndigoBlueWagon
TDIClub Enthusiast
Principal IDParts
Vendor
w/Business number
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: South of Boston
Fuel Economy: 50/45/37
Default

I think you may be giving buyers more credit for making rational and objective choices then they deserve. Just look at how many people drive around by themselves in huge pickup trucks and never put anything in the bed. That has very little to do with an objective buying choice. People may say the reasons you list are why they buy an EV, but I'm skeptical that those are the real reasons. Nothing wrong with that.
__________________
2002 Jetta wagon, 412K, RC3+; 1993 Mercedes-Benz 300D 2.5, 199K; 1997 Passat, 289K; '99.5 Golf, 262K; 2011 335d, 64K; 2015 Golf Sportwagen, 14K. Principal, http://www.idparts.com
Kid's cars: 2002 Golf TDI, 2002 Jetta TDI, 2015 Passat TDI SEL
IndigoBlueWagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 10:57   #5722
turbobrick240
Veteran Member
 
turbobrick240's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: maine
Default

The people who buy EVs are largely the same demographic of consumer who buy solar panels for their homes. It's a fast growing demographic. Overall I would say their motivations are quite benign.
turbobrick240 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 12:31   #5723
IndigoBlueWagon
TDIClub Enthusiast
Principal IDParts
Vendor
w/Business number
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: South of Boston
Fuel Economy: 50/45/37
Default

Perhaps, but I don't think you pick a car using the same criteria as picking solar panels. At least I don't. Solar panels are an appliance that you rarely even see, much less think about. The just do their job. I don't care what my solar panels look like (within reason) or what brand they are: I'm not even sure I know. But a car I see, drive, get seen in, and care for: then I care about brand, image, appearance, even if I say I don't. Everybody does. Well, almost everybody.
__________________
2002 Jetta wagon, 412K, RC3+; 1993 Mercedes-Benz 300D 2.5, 199K; 1997 Passat, 289K; '99.5 Golf, 262K; 2011 335d, 64K; 2015 Golf Sportwagen, 14K. Principal, http://www.idparts.com
Kid's cars: 2002 Golf TDI, 2002 Jetta TDI, 2015 Passat TDI SEL
IndigoBlueWagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 12:49   #5724
Tin Man
Veteran Member
 
Tin Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Coastal Empire
Fuel Economy: 51/40/30 TDI PD, 42/37/32 535d, 52/46/42 XE 2.0d
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbobrick240 View Post
The people who buy EVs are largely the same demographic of consumer who buy solar panels for their homes. It's a fast growing demographic. Overall I would say their motivations are quite benign.
Yeah, maybe rapidly approaching 0.5% of US households.


https://www.seia.org/news/united-sta...-installations
__________________
'16 535d, '17 XE 2.0d, '04 NB TDI PD DSG
"We see things not as they are, but as we are."-- H. M. Tomlinson
"Once I make up my mind, I'm full of indecision."-- Oscar Levant
Tin Man is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 16:39   #5725
AntonLargiader
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Charlottesville, VA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IndigoBlueWagon View Post
I think you may be giving buyers more credit for making rational and objective choices then they deserve. Just look at how many people drive around by themselves in huge pickup trucks and never put anything in the bed....
They are not EV buyers... it's quite plausible that the market has rational and irrational buyers, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin Man View Post
Yeah, maybe rapidly approaching 0.5% of US households.https://www.seia.org/news/united-sta...-installations
That's a year old; let's conservatively say there are now 2.5 million and 2 million of those are residential. Out of 95 million single family homes (the only homes that are real candidates for PV arrays) that's 4%. Pretty high IMO, and climbing.
__________________
Anton Largiader, Charlottesville VA
Awesome red wagon w/Bosal hitch.
AntonLargiader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 20:14   #5726
Tin Man
Veteran Member
 
Tin Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Coastal Empire
Fuel Economy: 51/40/30 TDI PD, 42/37/32 535d, 52/46/42 XE 2.0d
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonLargiader View Post
That's a year old; let's conservatively say there are now 2.5 million and 2 million of those are residential. Out of 95 million single family homes (the only homes that are real candidates for PV arrays) that's 4%. Pretty high IMO, and climbing.
Convenient ignoring other forms of housing to goose the stats. Sorry. Its not a "fast growing demographic" even at 4%. We'll see how many Covid-19 economically devastated consumers will opt for the investment in solar power. After all, we are not Costa Rica.


Remind me what the latest "break-even" point is on solar power - 8 years for ROI? Nice, but not "fast."
__________________
'16 535d, '17 XE 2.0d, '04 NB TDI PD DSG
"We see things not as they are, but as we are."-- H. M. Tomlinson
"Once I make up my mind, I'm full of indecision."-- Oscar Levant
Tin Man is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 7 (1 members and 6 guests)
Tin Man
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
GM, Nissan and Tesla Premier New Electric Vehicles in Detroit MarcusW General Automotive 1 January 17th, 2013 11:24
How many states exempt diesel vehicles for emissions? Angus Scrimm TDI (Diesel) Emissions 26 January 10th, 2011 21:25
Plug-in or Full-Electric Vehicles? bad idea TornadoRed General Automotive 63 January 16th, 2010 16:46
Extending range in Battery Electric Vehicles (BEV) nicklockard General Automotive 1 March 6th, 2005 13:39
GM pulling the plug on electric vehicles BHarrison TDI News/Tech 4 May 7th, 2003 11:20


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 20:24.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2017
Contact Us | Privacy Statement | Forum Rules | Disclaimer
TDIClub Online Ltd (TDIClub.com) is not affiliated with the VWoA or VWAG and is supported by contributions from viewers like you.
1996 - 2020, All Rights Reserved
Page generated in 0.24718 seconds with 12 queries
[Output: 114.62 Kb. compressed to 98.38 Kb. by saving 16.25 Kb. (14.17%)]