www.tdiclub.com

Economy - Longevity - Performance
The #1 Source of TDI Information on the Web!
Forums Articles Links Meets
Orders TDI Club Cards TDIFest 2016 Gone, but not forgotten VAG-Com List Unit Conversions TDIClub Chat Thank You

Order your TDIClub merchandise and help support TDIClub


Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > TDI Power Enhancements

TDI Power Enhancements Discussions about increasing the power of your TDI engine. i.e. chips, injectors, powerboxes, clutches, etc. Handling, suspensions, wheels, type discussion should be put into the "Upgrades (non TDI Engine related)" forum. Non TDI vehicle related postings will be moved or removed. Please note the Performance Disclaimer.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 24th, 2020, 12:59   #16
P777
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Moldova
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus L View Post
Like this



You can ignore compressor bypass and EGR.
I do not quite understand what a large turbine will be controlled? Or do you need a turbine with a built-in west gate ???
P777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 24th, 2020, 13:01   #17
P777
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Moldova
Default



everything is as you say here, but the turbine is not controlled by anything!
P777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 24th, 2020, 13:49   #18
Markus L
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Finland
Default

Larger turbine is controlled by choosing a housing large enough. Wastegate literally wastes exhaust gas energy. Better to take all out of it in LP stage.
Markus L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 24th, 2020, 22:41   #19
P777
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Moldova
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus L View Post
Larger turbine is controlled by choosing a housing large enough. Wastegate literally wastes exhaust gas energy. Better to take all out of it in LP stage.
say turbines gtb2056vl and holset hx40 are suitable for my setup ??? or do i need a holset hx40w with integrated westgate?
P777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 25th, 2020, 14:41   #20
TDIMeister
Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast
Moderator at Large
 
TDIMeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Canada
TDI(s): TDI
Default

Combining a VNT HP stage and wastegated LP can be a little tricky to get proper boost control with an OEM computer that takes only one signal (boost pressure) as input. You cannot control a vane position actuator and a wastegate actuator from same boost pressure signal, even if you were to convert so that both actuate by pressure or vacuum because they have very different control transfer function behaviours.

I hate to say this, but for most people, they should go with WG turbos on both stages to make their lives easier. Integral wastegates are fine, or you can use an integral WG on the HP turbo and external WG on the LP. You also cannot control two wastegates with a single actuation output signal, because stages need to be actuated separately and independently. Otherwise, both wastegates will actuate simultaneously, and both turbos will act as a single unit simultaneously combining the worst of the small (restrictive) and big (slow response) turbo's attributes. There's no one way to do it - it will involve some experimentation. Some people use boost pressure to actuate the HP (smaller) turbo's WG, while the LP (larger) is actuated by exhaust manifold pressure or interstage differential pressure.

As part of my Master thesis in 2009, I developed an R2S system for gasoline engines inspired from the similar system for Diesels in the BMW 23d with Borg Warner as collaborators: https://www.gtisoft.com/wp-content/u...on/FEV2009.pdf

Another alternative is to employ VNT on both HP and LP stages. This is a "latest" development published by Borg-Warner dated 2017, but I have documented done work in this forum on this dating back to at least 2009.
https://www.borgwarner.com/newsroom/...-turbochargers

In a "Bi-VNT" setup, the control can be the most challenging or most easy one of all, depending on your level of knowledge and comfort working with electronics and control systems. I detailed elsewhere where one could actually use a single N75 PWM signal from the OEM ECU to drive two separate electronic vane actuators. PWM signals are easy to manipulate and condition, so that you can modify the N75 signal to control the LP stage(e.g. change the frequency, introduce a lag or hysteresis, implement a switch, etc.), while keeping the original N75 signal intact to control the HP stage. Also, if you are an electronics wizard, you can add additional inputs to the ECU by adding a slave microcontroller (e.g. using a Raspberry Pi board) that takes additional engine RPM and throttle position sensor (TPS) signals to generate a map of when and how you want to the individual stages to operate. However, implementing this properly requires additional bypasses (e.g. external wastegate or butterfly valve) to deactivate the HP stage to prevent dangerous overboost.
__________________

TDIMeister's German-imported 1998 Audi A4 Avant TDI quattro

Are you receiving unwelcome sales solicitations or inappropriate, harassing messages in your PM? You can report them by pressing the image on the top right of the message in a similar way as reporting inappropriate posts.

Last edited by TDIMeister; May 25th, 2020 at 14:57.
TDIMeister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 27th, 2020, 10:59   #21
skaude
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: finland
Default

From finland too, 2056vl + hx40 sounds proper sized. Keep in mind if you do compounds you need to do alot math and tune alone yourself. Unless someone is willing to tune it for you.
skaude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 29th, 2020, 12:10   #22
P777
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Moldova
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by skaude View Post
From finland too, 2056vl + hx40 sounds proper sized. Keep in mind if you do compounds you need to do alot math and tune alone yourself. Unless someone is willing to tune it for you.
where can I read about this installation in Finland?
P777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
golf 4 1.9 biturbo fil1234 TDI Power Enhancements 16 July 19th, 2014 02:47
how/here can i put a biturbo or kompressor? crazyIV TDI Power Enhancements 31 March 18th, 2010 06:19
2.0L Biturbo SportwagenTDI TDI News/Tech 7 February 12th, 2010 20:08
biturbo? titantdi TDI Power Enhancements 34 June 9th, 2008 18:58
biturbo? titantdi TDI Power Enhancements 2 June 5th, 2008 18:19


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 20:53.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2017
Contact Us | Privacy Statement | Forum Rules | Disclaimer
TDIClub Online Ltd (TDIClub.com) is not affiliated with the VWoA or VWAG and is supported by contributions from viewers like you.
Đ 1996 - 2020, All Rights Reserved
Page generated in 0.13241 seconds with 12 queries
[Output: 83.96 Kb. compressed to 73.47 Kb. by saving 10.49 Kb. (12.50%)]