He's running a 2260vk with CP3Have you run out of fuel on stock injectors? Or do you just want to go bigger just because? Just curious, because I have yet to hear of anyone running out of fuel and needing bigger injectors on a commonrail. FYI, upgraded fuel pump should be a consideration if you don't already have one.
Well hot damn! We are starting to have some people really starting to push the limits. That's pretty coolHe's running a 2260vk with CP3
I would contact Les at GDM. I believe he has had some piezo injectors extruded.
We can generate the codes, that's easy.I would love to know how calibration codes are being generated for these.
To add to that,Those adaptation values can trim the fuel calibration by a number of mg/r in each cylinder individually. If you think that doesn't matter then... ok I guess.
But beware: once you change the values the car will never run quite the same as it did. The more miles on the injectors, the more pronounced this effect will be. That's because the values are only valid for new injectors. The ecu adapts and adjusts the calibration over time in the eeprom based on a number of factors to account for wear and such. When you enter a value, this history gets reset, as if the injector is brand new again. Then the only way to get it running like before, is to tell the ECU the correct IMA/IVA values- and on used injectors this must be measured and generated using a very specific bosch test routine.
Did I say they don't?Why don't 2004 dodge and 2003 duramax require this? EDC16, solenoid injectors, different certification requirements, etc etc so IOW they are totally different animals. This is not your daddy's common rail.
Don't believe me? Ok, try this yourself, and tell me what you get:
VCDS adaptation channels 71,72,73,74. Write down the IMA/IVA value for each cylinder. Then swap around the values between cylinders or even make them all the same. Or even grab a value from a different car to *really* prove that "it simply doesn't matter."
tell us if it affects how the car runs.
If you cant tell any difference, then have a ball.
Those adaptation values can trim the fuel calibration by a number of mg/r in each cylinder individually. If you think that doesn't matter then... ok I guess.
But beware: once you change the values the car will never run quite the same as it did. The more miles on the injectors, the more pronounced this effect will be. That's because the values are only valid for new injectors. The ecu adapts and adjusts the calibration over time in the eeprom based on a number of factors to account for wear and such. When you enter a value, this history gets reset, as if the injector is brand new again. Then the only way to get it running like before, is to tell the ECU the correct IMA/IVA values- and on used injectors this must be measured and generated using a very specific bosch test routine. (The other way to get it running like before, is to do a 100% back up of the ecu so it can be restored to the same state as it was before the values were monkeyed with... and which method do you think I used when I did this myself )
Go ahead: do it and report back. You may get lucky and it will be somewhat like a gasser running too lean or something subtle like that. Or maybe that sissy stuff doesn't matter as long as there's more power.
Try 10%....acutally if you EDM and nozzle to nozzle deviation is below +-2% and shot to shot for small (pilot) quantities are below +-0.5 mg/stroke and one takes the time and effort to the make a corresponding duration map the deal is sealed. even without IMA codes after some time the ecu will learn the small quantities away. there might be more combustion noise from less accurate pilot quantities but as Hannu said 300 hp 4 cyl and 450hp v6 give or take is about the max one can run with 2000 bar. after that the egt/lambda tradeoff is quite bad
Re-read my post, IMA coding is a trim value, it does not determine min/max injector control ranges.I think we just need to know how the calibration codes are developed and the rest will become academic. Knowing the meaning of the characters in the codes would be the first step. There has to be a value for output vs voltage/current and a value for response time. If you have a reasonably well balanced set of nozzles it should be no problem to check cylinder contribution values with VCDS and adjust the IMA/IVA values to compensate for the deviation (within reason).
I doubt that the bosch dealers even know how the IMA/IVA values are derived. I imagine the test rig just spits them out and they tag the injectors. Lets face it, those guys are not all scientists. You're probably not going to get the info from them in any case, so you best start figuring it out yourself...
Given that the CR tdi uses cylinder pressure sensors and has a crank position sensor with sufficient resolution to determine individual cylinder firing acceleration, I doubt that there would be any need for the ECM to "age" the injector response and output values. It should be possible to derive trims for those values based on sensor inputs. I would expect the "learned" values lost by re-adapting the values would be "re-learned" within a short time. Open loop time/cycle count adaptation of that nature is a terrible "loose end" in any control scheme. Unless those piezo elements are predictable like nothing else on earth, I cannot imagine bosch making an error in judgement of that magnitude. Anything is possible though...
In any case, I have swapped used CR injectors and entered the codes with no ill effects. I imagine that the aging process is consistent anyway, so swapping full sets of 100k nozzles for sets of 50k ones would just result in a slightly lower or higher output across the board and would not likely result in any significant running problems.
I say go ahead and stick on some extrude honed or EDM enlarged nozzles and see what happens. Worst case, you lose an engine. If you are topping 300hp, that's pretty much expected. Nobody is going to die. Best case you have some new info to share with us...