TDI Used Oil Lab Analyses Results & Discussions

thermographer

Veteran Member
Joined
May 1, 2004
Location
Maryville, Tennessee
TDI
Jetta GL, 2004 Wheat/Beige with Automatic Tiptronic, ESP
Oil sample pump question, not worth starting a new thread.
Where do you guys get the tubing that came with the sample pump (white poly or air line maybe?). The cat store near my house will only sell it in a huge roll. I would think it's important to use a new piece of tubing every time?
Waiting for results of OA 13,0004 miles on elf 507. Should be coming in the mail at any day.
 

Windjammer

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2006
Location
Cinti, OH
TDI
MK4 & Mk5
thermographer said:
Where do you guys get the tubing that came with the sample pump (white poly or air line maybe?). The cat store near my house will only sell it in a huge roll. I would think it's important to use a new piece of tubing every time?
Yes it's important to use a new piece of tubing. When I buy my sample kits from the Cat store it comes with a new piece of tubing. Pricing btw is 1 for $18 or a 10 pack for $90. Price includes postage & lab analysis.
 

dabear95

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2002
Location
Roseville, MI
TDI
2002 Golf GLS, Silver
Scott,

If you want to remove your name/address from the file you posted you may want to take a screen print or make your annotations permanent. Just a heads up!

I noticed it just from scrolling. When you scroll fast those black blobs go away for a second.


Jason
 
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SUNRG

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Location
Roanoke, VA
TDI
None currently. Previously owned 04 Golf TDI & 05 Passat GLS Wagon TDI
Windjammer said:
Here is my 20K UOA. The iron seems high, but I'll defer to the experts.
http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/20k.pdf
if that's 20k ODO and 10k on the oil, it's quite good. some of the levels are higher than we sometimes see - but if it were my TDI i wouldn't worry about them since it's such a young engine.
 

SUNRG

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Location
Roanoke, VA
TDI
None currently. Previously owned 04 Golf TDI & 05 Passat GLS Wagon TDI
Windjammer said:
Thanks SUNRG. I should have clarified that. Yes, 20K odo & 10k on oil.
Some of the numbers we're seeing lately are from 5k oil changes, so they look low compared to yours but, your numbers may actually be better.

For example - wjdell posted some good numbers: Fe at 10k was 24 and then he changed again at 15k and Fe was again 24 - so for the 10,000 miles from 5k ODO to 15k ODO Fe was 48.

In your engine, for the 10,000 miles from 10k ODO to 20k ODO Fe was 46. So your Fe wear is very good / low for a young engine.

Cheers!
 

JB05

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Location
Il.USA
TDI
Golf,2005,anthracite blue
This was posted in another thread but with only one response:
2005 Golf, Amsoil AFL, 5200/7500/10000 miles on oil and 25K on vehicle.
Iron 37 66 99
Chromium 2 3 11
Lead 4 6 7
Copper 11 13 16
Tin 0 0 0
Aluminum 7 8 13
Nickel 0 0 0
Silver 0 0 0
Silicon 12 4 11
Boron 30 42 42
Sodium 2 5 0
Magnesium 15 13 18
Calcium 2063 1734 1944
Barium 0 0
Phosphorus 631 709 823
Zinc 985 832 962
Molybdenum 0 2 1
Titanium 0 0 0
Vanadium 0 0 0
Potasium 0 0 0
Fuel <1 <1 <1
Vis@ 100c 13.76 12.36 12.24
Water 0 0 0
Soot/solids 1.0 0.9 0.9
Coolant No No No
TBN 4.60 4.07 3.45
Oxid 2.0 8.0 10.0
Nitr 2.0 12.0 12.0
F-soot 1.08 0.91 0.96
Change No No No
Analyst JJL JJL JJL
Drop in viscosity most likely due to B11 usage for the last 2500, and possibly my high wear metal count. I do mostly urban driving so I will just go with straight D2 and maybe shorten my OCI's. This is where I get confused because DBW has said that shorter OCI's do more harm due to the longer time for additives to stabilize. I have switched from AFL to DEO which looks to be a more robust additive package and a slightly thicker viscosity. I will resample @ 5K or sooner. Comments and suggestions are more than welcome.
John
 

SUNRG

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Location
Roanoke, VA
TDI
None currently. Previously owned 04 Golf TDI & 05 Passat GLS Wagon TDI
Wear is high, but IMHO neither the wear or viscosity have anything to do with B11 use. ASTM certified biodiesel use generally results in reduced wear due to its superior lubricity compared to D2. My PD has been fueled virtually exclusively by B30 to B100 biodiesel with very low UOA indicated wear and outstanding performance.

If it were my TDI - I would drain the DEO immediately. DEO is not supported by Amsoil for use in PD TDIs. It's not 50501 recommended or approved.

Will DEO work fine in a PD? Maybe. But again, if it were my TDI there's no way I'd risk it.

We've already seen one PD failure that correlated with using the old Amsoil AFL formulation exclusively. Amsoil representatives said the earlier version of AFL was not recommended for use in PDs and Amsoil did not cover the repairs. The current version of AFL is recommended for PDs, but DEO is not. This means you are voiding your VW warranty and Amsoil's warranty will not protect you either.

With high wear numbers I don't blame you for considering switching to another oil, but considering your soot is at ~1% - if it were my TDI - I would go with a 50501 or 50700 oil.
 

wny_pat

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Location
Western New York State
TDI
2002 Jetta TDI
JB05 said:
I have switched from AFL to DEO which looks to be a more robust additive package and a slightly thicker viscosity. I will resample @ 5K or sooner. Comments and suggestions are more than welcome.
John
How many other oils have you ran in that vehicle and what were they?
 

robco

Active member
Joined
Feb 28, 2007
Location
Tennessee, usa
TDI
2003 GLS Jetta TDI loaded
Has anyone tested castrol syntec 5w40 american oil? Is it suitable for 10k?
It is the only thing I can find in this hick town. I'm new to the tdi and am finding it hard to go 10,000 miles without an oil change.
 

wjdell

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 17, 2006
Location
Central Florida
TDI
06 Jetta TDI DSG PKG 1 17" VV Campy White/Beige
No its probably not a good choice if you need 505.01, order it on the net.

InterAuto Parts Lubro Moly
Impex, Motor spot, Motul & Elf do some searching.
 

TornadoRed

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Location
West Des Moines (formerly St Paul)
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI wagon, silver; 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, indigo blue; 2003 Golf GL 5-spd, red (PARTED); 2003 Golf GLS 5-spd, indigo blue (SOLD); 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, Candy White (SOLD)
robco said:
I was thinking of putting it in my 2003 Jetta gls tdi (63000 miles).
Then there are many good motor oils suitable for your engine. Typically they are synthetic 5w40 oils meeting VW505.00 (or better) or API CH-4 (or better).

The easiest for you to find locally are probably Shell Rotella T (in the blue bottle, at Walmart), or Mobil 1 5w40 (at some but not all Walmarts). Castrol Syntec 5w40 is okay.

If you want to learn more, just read.
 

robco

Active member
Joined
Feb 28, 2007
Location
Tennessee, usa
TDI
2003 GLS Jetta TDI loaded
I see you have a lot of miles on yours do you go the 10,000 miles or sooner. I am not sure if I should go 10,000 or not. The dealer said not to, but from what I read here alot of the dealers do not know what they are talking about in alot of instances. (so the question is to go 10k or not to????)
 

TornadoRed

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Location
West Des Moines (formerly St Paul)
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI wagon, silver; 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, indigo blue; 2003 Golf GL 5-spd, red (PARTED); 2003 Golf GLS 5-spd, indigo blue (SOLD); 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, Candy White (SOLD)
Most of the diesel-rated 5w40 motor oils discussed in this forum will be okay for a 10k-mile oil change interval. The better ones will still have lots of reserve left at 10k, the weaker ones will be used up. This assumes that your engine is running properly, that no coolant is leaking into the oil, that the engine is not producing excess soot, etc.

My Golf has been fed a steady diet of Mobil 5w40, either Delvac 1 or the Mobil 1 equivalent, since the 5k-mile oil change. The only exception was a test last summer of Elf Evolution 0w30 last summer... a test that didn't work out very well. After I switched back, everything returned to normal.

All of my oil changes have been between 9k and 11k miles, except for one time when I stretched it out to about 14k miles. I typically add 0.25-0.50 quart of topping-up oil, but sometimes none at all.
 

robco

Active member
Joined
Feb 28, 2007
Location
Tennessee, usa
TDI
2003 GLS Jetta TDI loaded
Thanks for the insight tornado red. I just bought mine about a month ago and am a little confused about oil. I hear the mobil one is great but the bottle doesn't say acea b3-b4 or VW505 00. I hear castrol sucks but the bottle says it meets all the specs, but it looks like I have found a great tool here at the tdi club to help me with that decision.
Robby
 

JB05

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Location
Il.USA
TDI
Golf,2005,anthracite blue
Sunrg, thanx for the input. I will heed your advice as I am not that confident in my knowledge of the chemical interaction of oil additives.
Terms like labile , chelator or ligand are what counts. I would at least
like to do one UOA before switching.
WnyPat, before I joined Fred's, I took the Owner's Manual literally in regards to API ratings. So I went to Walmart and bought Rotella T in the blue bottle and ran that for about 7500 miles. Then I switched to Castrol TXT for about 8K. These seemed like very long OCI's to me, but unfortunately I never did a UOA prior to using AFL. Buckwheat's and DBW recent PD teardowns have me thinking twice. I wonder if I have the old style lifters in my Golf that seem more prone to wear failure.
JB
 

SUNRG

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Location
Roanoke, VA
TDI
None currently. Previously owned 04 Golf TDI & 05 Passat GLS Wagon TDI
JB - the value of a DEO UOA IMHO is no where near that of your VW warranty. draining ASAP will also serve as a cleanse, reducing your soot and wear metal contaminant concentrations. if it were my TDI - i'd go to the dealer, get 5L of TXT, save the TXT receipt, discard the DEO receipt, and motor on.
 

wny_pat

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Location
Western New York State
TDI
2002 Jetta TDI
SUNRG said:
JB - the value of a DEO UOA IMHO is no where near that of your VW warranty. draining ASAP will also serve as a cleanse, reducing your soot and wear metal contaminant concentrations. if it were my TDI - i'd go to the dealer, get 5L of TXT, save the TXT receipt, discard the DEO receipt, and motor on.
Exactly what I was also thinking.
 

thermographer

Veteran Member
Joined
May 1, 2004
Location
Maryville, Tennessee
TDI
Jetta GL, 2004 Wheat/Beige with Automatic Tiptronic, ESP
Sorry about the format, I tried father-in-laws scanner, and didn't come out.
Total miles on car- 132,128
Total miles on oil sample- 13,005
Lab. SOS Services Fluids Analysis Laboratory (Riggs/Cat) Little Rock, Arkansas
Oil is ELF Solaris LLX 507.
Wear Metals, PPM
Al = 14
Ca = 1681
Cr = 2
Cu = 5
Fe = 51
Pb = 4
Mg = 21
Mo = 0
Ni = 3
P = 651
K = 5
Si = 4
Na = 100
Sn = 0
V = 0
Zn = 772
Oil condition Particle Count (ct/ml)
SooT = 29
Oxidation = 25
Nitrogen = 10
Sulfation = 24
Water NO
Antifreeze NO
fuel NO
Viscosity @ 100C = 12.1

Last oil analysis, Sodium was 146 most likely due to the EGR cooler leak. Now at 100. Oil was drained using the bottom drain, then finishing off with pela oil extractor to remove the oil in the filter sump.
My plan is to run this oil to 15,000 miles, then take another oil analysis and maybe replace oil at the same time.
The Castrol under $7 is looking good compaired to the $11 Elf. :eek:
 
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wjdell

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 17, 2006
Location
Central Florida
TDI
06 Jetta TDI DSG PKG 1 17" VV Campy White/Beige
507 is starting to show some very good numbers you are about the 4th to post good numbers. The Al seems out of wack a bit but the rest is EXCELLENT.
 

thermographer

Veteran Member
Joined
May 1, 2004
Location
Maryville, Tennessee
TDI
Jetta GL, 2004 Wheat/Beige with Automatic Tiptronic, ESP
Over my last 4 OA's, Al recorded as following:
Total Miles / Miles on Oil / Al
97216 / 4550 / 6
108572 /11353 / 12
119124 / 10552 / 13
132128 / 13005 / 14
Numbers seem rather steady.
 

TornadoRed

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Location
West Des Moines (formerly St Paul)
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI wagon, silver; 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, indigo blue; 2003 Golf GL 5-spd, red (PARTED); 2003 Golf GLS 5-spd, indigo blue (SOLD); 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, Candy White (SOLD)
thermographer said:
Oxidation = 25
...
Sulfation = 24
I have read somewhere that if oxidation plus sulfation equals 50 or greater, it's time for an oil change.

Okay, it was here: http://www.oaitesting.com/g2047.pdf

Given that you didn't get a TBN value, OXID + SULF may give you an approximate idea of the acidity of the oil. Yours is considered "excessive".
 

wjdell

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 17, 2006
Location
Central Florida
TDI
06 Jetta TDI DSG PKG 1 17" VV Campy White/Beige
Yes they are steady but don't you think your AL is high considering how low the rest are, 8 or 9 for this interval. Keep it up things are looking very good.
 

theFATman

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2004
Location
mke
TDI
Jetta GLS, 2000, white
Dr Nick says: "Hello Everybody!!"

First oil analysis, i think i'm gonna stick with 5000 for the next sample even though i know a lot of you will probably tell me to go longer. I'm pretty sure i overestimated the actual mileage on that sample.. maybe by 500 miles, one reason i did the analysis was because i lost track of my last change but judging by my fuel receipts and records i was within 500 miles of 5000.
-Pat


..edited picture size
 
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SUNRG

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Location
Roanoke, VA
TDI
None currently. Previously owned 04 Golf TDI & 05 Passat GLS Wagon TDI
Great UOA. Of course keep an eye on the fuel content in future UOAs. Cheers!
 
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