Is Wolfsburg Golf 'better' than Puebla JSW?

Great Forum!

I'm in the market for a new car, having finally decided that my 2000 Audi A4 quattro needs to move on. I'm hearing from sales staff (at 2 different dealerships) that the last of the Wolfsburg Golfs are now being sold, and are 'better' and perhaps more valuable than the Mexican produced JSW.

Any substance to that, in your opinion?

BTW, I don't yet own a Golf, but I had to enter something in the registration process...

BS....sister in law has A JSW...mexico....mine is a Golf...fatherland....same quality inside and out...buy what you need....JSW may even be easier to resell IMHO ....just hate wagons personally.

All VW Facilites are held to the SAME Standard in quality. And they have VW Trained Quality Inspectors at each plant. You should have no trouble finding a quality ride be it made in Mehico, Deutchland, or 'MURICA. All have great quality compared to cars from say FMC, GM, and Chrysler, and some Korean, and Jap brands.

Go with what you Want, and just opt for Gap insurance, and Extended warranty beyond the 100k mile mark. might not need it, these things are pretty robust, aside from fuel pump, and dpf issues. If you are set on a 2.0 TDI, I suggest having a 2 micron return filter installed so if the hpfp goes, it is isolated to the pump and filter.

Both lemons and great cars come rolling out of both (all) factories. There are trouble free cars from both and there are bad cars from both. There does not seem to be any real difference in quality between the German and Mexican built cars. They are all assembled by the same robots. Buy the car that best suits your needs and see if you get lucky and get a good one. The good ones far out number the bad ones, but the bad ones are the ones that get all of the attention.

Have Fun!

Don

The mexico problems were over a decade (maybe 2?) ago and as everyone else has said, it does not matter where your VW was built. Defects from all plants are possible. They are just lying to you trying to get rid of the last of their 2013's... Maybe VWoA would be interested to know which sales staff denigrates their own brand!

I had more issues with my German made Passat than I ever had with my Mexican made GSW... I wouldn't let the plant location be a decision influence...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Absolutely nothing wrong with Puebla mexico assembly plant. It has been there for literally decades and they have received numerous awards over the years for quality and efficiency.

Remember there are no 'german' cars or 'american' cars or 'japanese' cars. We live in a global market and have for sometime. The JSW has components from germany, eastern euro countries, china, the US etc (you get the idea) and it is all assembled in Puebla.

I am 4 months in on our '13 JSW and I frigging love this car. I bought the service contract out to 120,000 miles for 6 years, I put in a fuel additive and the love grows more intense every day.

With 14 gallon tank we get around 550 miles, and that is OUTSTANDING. Our old Camry had a 16 gallon tank and got around 425 miles per tank. Less fuel costs, great style, spectacular performance (for a 4 cylinder engine), excellent efficiency... I mean, what more could you ask for?!

Just wish my wife let me buy the manual.

This morning I saw a post here. Someone who owns a Golf and a JSW posted and shared the experience: while the Wolfsburg Golf is a lemon, JSW is flawless.

VW invested really much money in that factory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddsFa0JX2kg

a fluff piece about puebla from DWTV.

Thanks for the information/advice.

This afternoon the dealership with the most helpful salesperson met my price... and I've got a Golf headed my way.
So hopefully, the 'average' Wolfsburg car is a winner...

BTW: Tornado Red, 6 spd manual, basic package.

I got a Golf in part because it's built in Germany, but I really think it doesn't matter. I've owned 3 TDIs from Mexico ('97, '98, '06), five from Germany ('96 '99.5, '00, '02, '12) and my current B4 is from Belgium. All are fine cars, IMO. Rust aside, the '98 Jetta from Mexico is one of the best TDIs we've had, surpassed only by my '02 Jetta Wagon (from Germany).

I just like being able to say mine is from Wolfsburg, but I can be shallow like that sometimes....

tdi90hp said:

JSW may even be easier to resell IMHO ....just hate wagons personally.

Click to expand...

I think resell varies by location... although, I dont see much of either Golf or JSW in Houston.

Agreed though... As far as wagons go, the JSW is a good one, but I just don't like wagons... Not since they got rid of the seat in the back that faced backwards... many fond memories of sitting in the back of my mom's volvo as a kid so I could face the cars behind us. I think my brother and I would sit back there, even when the backseat was empty, just because it was more fun.

Yvettes Sherpa said:

I just like being able to say mine is from Wolfsburg, but I can be shallow like that sometimes....

Click to expand...

I live in a city with 40-45% Hispanic population. I get really good treatment at car washes because of my little "Hecho en Mexico" sticker in the back window. I just figure that everyone ought to be proud of their heritage, and my car's heritage is Mexican. I am not a Mexican, but my car definitely is. It's all good.

Have Fun!

Don

P.S. My car is 4.5 years old with over 60k miles. It has had no service except for scheduled maintenance and some new rear brakes. So far, I have no complaints about reliability.

Son's '02 Jetta (hecho en Mexico) has been pretty reliable, despite a neglectful first owner. Has the base model, hence no electric window problems. T'Red paint looks very good for an 11-year-old that has always lived outside.

The quality at the final assembly plant (i.e. Wolfsburg vs. Puebla) is not the whole story.

Where the parts come from is also part of the story. My 2010 JSW has an odd problem of a white dust appearing on the door panels over time. It's done this since Day 1. I believe it's talc (filler) that is migrating out of the vinyl. Every so often I have to scrub all the door panel tops to remove this.

This has nothing to do with the quality of the Puebla assembly plant.

This has everything to do with component sourcing. There are plants all over Mexico that make the parts that then go to Puebla. In Germany, there are plants all over Germany that supply components to Wolfsburg.

By and large, I trust the supply chain in Germany more than I trust the supply chain in Mexico.

And by the way, I'm an automotive Design Engineer. I've designed a ton of door panels, and am now working on instrument clusters -- specifically, the 2016 Ford Explorer which will launch out of Reynosa, Mexico (across the border from McAllen, TX.)

That's all I'll say about that. I made similar comments on a former thread about 'Germany vs. Mexico', and the moderators deleted it and banned all of us for 'racism' for a few days. It was not racism in the least, it was simple fact-based things like what I just wrote here.

but it would appear that the supply chain in puebla are at least in part, german companies.

Claydon said:

but it would appear that the supply chain in puebla are at least in part, german companies.

Click to expand...

I'm not talking about the company headquarters or engineering offices. I'm talking the production facilities. In Mexico. If Continental makes an alternator in Germany (I don't know if Continental makes alternators) as well as in Mexico, I would still trust the German part over the Mexican part. Because the German die casting and wound armature would come from Germany, most likely. And the Mexican casting and wound armature would come from a Mexican plant.

Let's say you have your own little tool shop here in the States. You produce good quality here, because you oversee the whole thing. But thanks to NAFTA, business is moving to Mexico. So you decide that to stay competitive, you need to open a shop in Mexico. So you build or rent the space, buy the equipment, hire the employees.... You basically try to replicate in Mexico what you are already doing in the U.S. In all likelihood, the Mexican operations will not be as good as your U.S. operations. Why? Communication. Remote-ness. Time zones. Cultural differences. All kinds of things. The expertise in the U.S. has to get transferred. And it rarely works as well in the remote operations as in the at-home operations.

frugality said:

I'm not talking about the company headquarters or engineering offices. I'm talking the production facilities.

Click to expand...

All of this is very interesting, however the OP was trying to decide between two very different cars with different feature sets and sizes.

I can't speak for the OP, however having just spent a lot of time evaluating various cars for purchase, and having (foolishly) decided to buy not one but TWO cars, I can't see the issues you raise as being determinative.

VW makes nice cars that are fun to drive, however even the most cursory research will show that VW cars are far from trouble-free, and if one gets a bad example it is not going to be a pleasant experience. This applies to VW cars made in all of the factories they have everywhere, that are shipped to N. America for resale. I don't think that there is any convincing evidence out there that one can be spared this sort of catastrophic experience with VW cars coming out of any of their plants worldwide. And, VW may or may not be there to help you if you end up with a bad car. These are the facts.

Once one accepts that reality, that there is an element of risk in buying a VW, any VW, that may not be present if one were to buy, say, a Toyota or a Honda, but one is going to go forward with the VW anyway because the VW has something you seek (fun to drive, manual transmission, more power, whatever) then the choice is really on what car one wants or one needs.

I can't see a person deciding to buy a VW Golf that was made in Germany over a VW station wagon that was made in Mexico, based on the sort of example you posted. You either need/want a station wagon, or you don't. The Golf can't carry the same amount of stuff that a JSW can carry. It may have other attributes but carrying lots of cargo is not one of them.

So having to wipe some sort of residue off the interior of a Mexican-assembled car that you would not have to wipe off of the interior of a totally different car -- I just can't see this as relevant to a real-world buying decision, sorry.

That means that Ford does not have the same quality controls that VW.

And by the way, Those are the words of a Ford employee.

frugality said:

The quality at the final assembly plant (i.e. Wolfsburg vs. Puebla) is not the whole story.

Where the parts come from is also part of the story. My 2010 JSW has an odd problem of a white dust appearing on the door panels over time. It's done this since Day 1. I believe it's talc (filler) that is migrating out of the vinyl. Every so often I have to scrub all the door panel tops to remove this.

This has nothing to do with the quality of the Puebla assembly plant.

This has everything to do with component sourcing. There are plants all over Mexico that make the parts that then go to Puebla. In Germany, there are plants all over Germany that supply components to Wolfsburg.

By and large, I trust the supply chain in Germany more than I trust the supply chain in Mexico.

And by the way, I'm an automotive Design Engineer. I've designed a ton of door panels, and am now working on instrument clusters -- specifically, the 2016 Ford Explorer which will launch out of Reynosa, Mexico (across the border from McAllen, TX.)

That's all I'll say about that. I made similar comments on a former thread about 'Germany vs. Mexico', and the moderators deleted it and banned all of us for 'racism' for a few days. It was not racism in the least, it was simple fact-based things like what I just wrote here.

Click to expand...

Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk

They are all built to the same spec. regardless of country. You have to ask yourself whether a car made in a German plant (full of mostly Turkish and Iraqi workers) can assemble a car better than the mostly Mexican workers....mmmmmm...scratching chin....

No.

My wife's 2013 Golf (same as US Jetta) wagon (Mexican), is flawless. My German Golf hatch, is a lemon.

PlaneCrazy said:

No.

My wife's 2013 Golf (same as US Jetta) wagon (Mexican), is flawless. My German Golf hatch, is a lemon.

Click to expand...

I think you're overstating this. But either way, every factory makes bad cars once in a while. And sometimes they make extraordinarily good ones, like my Jetta Wagon.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

I think you're overstating this. But either way, every factory makes bad cars once in a while. And sometimes they make extraordinarily good ones, like my Jetta Wagon.

Click to expand...

Looking at the list of problems (going back over some old invoices so to prepare for my complaint to VW customer service for the HPFP issue):

Suspension knocking, replaced subframe bushing (warranty)
Intercooler icing: carried out intercooler TSB (warranty)
Improper TSB repair, burst radiator hose as a result (inter-dealer settlement)
Two stuck rear brake calipers on separate occasions (1 on warranty, the second out-of-pocket)
Hard starts in winter in spite of TSB
Loss of power... diagnosed as HPFP; in spite of powertrain warranty in effect, had to dole out $650 (plus a $300 upcharge to get a new instead of reman part but that was my choice).

This in 2 years and 92k km. Been a long time since I've had so many problems with one car, in such a short period. Some big-ticket items. The total bill for the caliper and HPFP issues came to $1971. The only one that comes close in recent times is our B5.5 Passat, and the problems really started only when it was 5 years old and had 180,000 km (about the same kms that things started to break on our Honda Odyssey).

I've had some other issues with the car that can't really be blamed on VW (well, maybe the blowout last year because of the crappy OEM tires), such as being hit in a parking lot by a stoned young woman who gave me false contact information... stuff that makes you think "this car is just jinxed".

But certainly more problems than we've had with our other cars. My Passat 2.0T for instance, ran up to 160k km (100k miles) with only routine service and a couple of recalls. Our 2004 Jetta wagon... flawless in 110k km until totaled. And that B5.5 Passat now has 255k km on it.

Nothing though, takes the prize for sour lemony taste from my 1985 Pontiac 6000 STE that I owned for 7 miserable months back in 1985-86, in which period the car made EIGHTEEN unscheduled trips to the garage, many issues which made the car un-drivable.

But it has been the worst of the 6 VWs (5 of which are/were TDIs) that I've owned/still own. It wouldn't be so bad if VW's customer service didn't suck. Still glad to have it back, and still really enjoy driving it though. Sort of like that high-maintenance girlfriend that you just can't bring yourself to break up with against your better sense.

PlaneCrazy said:

Looking at the list of problems . . . .

But it has been the worst of the 6 VWs (5 of which are/were TDIs) that I've owned/still own. It wouldn't be so bad if VW's customer service didn't suck. Still glad to have it back, and still really enjoy driving it though. Sort of like that high-maintenance girlfriend that you just can't bring yourself to break up with against your better sense.

Click to expand...

Did you marry her?

champignon said:

Did you marry her?

Click to expand...

No, married the sensible girl

Seems to have worked, still together 25 years later!

That doesn't mean I'll be buying a Toyota any time soon though... and the sensible girl owns TWO TDIs (one being used by our son). And her current one has a manual gearbox, which goes to prove that even sensible girls have fun

Mike, if I'd had your experience with my Golf I'd be unhappy too. I've only driven mine 16K but maintenance and repairs consist of one oil change done by me. Nothing else. Car has been flawless, hasn't seen the dealer since I drove it off the lot. Maybe that's the key.

I do think this generation TDI does have its flaws. HPFP is certainly a cause for worry, as is the intercooler. And the emissions system makes me want to avoid short trips. In fact I bought my B4 to drive my 5 mile commute to work because I didn't like using the Golf for it. As a result I drive the Golf less than I would otherwise, hence only 16K in nearly 2 years. It may get replaced with a 2015 GTI for track days unless one of my older TDIs faces an untimely death (accident) and as a result it gets pressed into more frequent service. Or I may wait for a next gen JSW with air-to-water intercooler and Urea.

Vehicle Nationality

Many people have mentioned that the location of the plant does not make a difference. I am inclined to agree. My wife and I have 3 German engineered vehicles but all assembled in North America. The Dodge RAM P/U is from Saltillo, Mexico circa 2002 and the JSW is from Puebla, Mexico circa 2012. The Passat is from Chattanooga, Tennessee circa 2012. All great vehicles and operate well as they are designed. I actually think the Mexican vehicles have better A/Cs. Maybe they received an extra shot of freon or tequila.

The analogy of a person born in the Britain is superior to one born in the Brazil is ludicrous. Admittedly vehicles manufactured in China such as the Geely are not the same quality as a BMW, but then the price differential is reflected in the product. It should be noted that Geely now owns Volvo cars after Volvo's acquisition from Ford.

mr.shooty said:

They are all built to the same spec. regardless of country. You have to ask yourself whether a car made in a German plant (full of mostly Turkish and Iraqi workers) can assemble a car better than the mostly Mexican workers....mmmmmm...scratching chin....

Click to expand...

Yes, the specs are the same. But do they meet them?

As mentioned, the vinyl on my door panels is continually shedding some white powder, likely talc (a filler.) Somehow this vinyl was not up to spec, yet it made it into the car.

I'm not talking about the nationality of the hands that build the car in the final assembly plant. I'm talking about all the components -- and all of the materials that go into those components -- that come from elsewhere. I trust the Homeland supply chain more than I trust the Low-Cost-Country supply chain. Period.

I trust in VW, they are able to get the best quality component's from they suppliers, because they have a process, I only see racism in your comments because you are worried about the source of the components, in your words if a cellphone comes from China that's implies that your cellphone is a crap, no matter the brand, if you have an iphone you must put it in the trash.

frugality said:

Yes, the specs are the same. But do they meet them?

As mentioned, the vinyl on my door panels is continually shedding some white powder, likely talc (a filler.) Somehow this vinyl was not up to spec, yet it made it into the car.

I'm not talking about the nationality of the hands that build the car in the final assembly plant. I'm talking about all the components -- and all of the materials that go into those components -- that come from elsewhere. I trust the Homeland supply chain more than I trust the Low-Cost-Country supply chain. Period.

Click to expand...

Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk