Check your radiator/condenser fan operation NOW

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MKIV_TDI

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 8, 2012
Location
CT
TDI
2002 Jetta TDI, 2002 Golf TDI, '89 Audi 200 Wagon Quattro 2.5 AEL TDI
My poor aunt just bought a 'new to her' 2002 NB with 160k miles and just as she was pulling into my driveway to show me her new car, the serpentine belt snapped!

In fact, she almost hit my mailbox because she lost power steering!

After a quick peek underneath, I looked at all the pulleys. Long story short, the AC pulley was totally seized. It took two hands and a tremendous amount of force to make it spin.

I removed the AC unit and it was some Chinese knockoff POS that the previous owner installed, and I was fortunate enough to have a genuine known working one one in my garage off of an engine with 100K miles.


After sending her to a garage to swap her condensers and refill, there's still no COLD air. Just barely "cool".

Then I came across this thread and I did the "AC On + Fan On + Ignition" test, and neither of the radiator fans are spinning.


I'm going to try and follow these steps to try and pinpoint her issue.

The fuses on top of the battery look great. No sign of damage/corrosion/melting. Her fuse #15 (red 10a) was burnt.

I'm going away this weekend, so hopefully it doesn't make anything worse till I can take it all apart...
 
D

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
I strongly suggest putting in a new RCV on any used compressor before installing it. They fail all the time. Most of the time, folks don't realize there is a problem until it is loading the compressor to less than 50% of normal. Almost every old compressor is running at reduced capacity due to an aging RCV.

Hopefully yours will run fine when you get the fans fixed.

Even with no fans it should work well at highway speeds - but you will quickly burn it up in traffic due to the high pressures and rapid clutch cycling.
 
M

MKIV_TDI

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 8, 2012
Location
CT
TDI
2002 Jetta TDI, 2002 Golf TDI, '89 Audi 200 Wagon Quattro 2.5 AEL TDI
Thanks for the reply, Dan. I wish I had done more 'homework' before sending her off when a new one. I know more about AC after reading this thread here than I ever have in my life.

Hopefully there's not too much troubleshooting until we get her up and running. I'll make sure to post back!
 
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mxs

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2009
Location
Ontario
TDI
2010 Golf TDI
On my 2010 Golf TDI ... the smaller fan (passenger side) is not spinning when the test is performed. My A/C is not working either.

My shop tried to test the fan via their computer and they concluded that the fan is pooched and needs to be replaced. They were sending voltage directly to the fan and the fan has not kicked in.

I am trying to get a confirmation whether the broken fan on 2010's TDI models can really stop perfectly functioning compressor from kicking in. The shop at the time I was there thought they didn't think so, but they promised me to look more into it. They have another 2010 coming in for oil change with a good A/C and will simply unplug the same fan and see whether the A/C still works.

I am hoping to make an educated decision between three fix options .... 1) replace just fan for $300 ... 2) fan + RCV for $600 or 3) fan + compressor $1200.

Problem with 2) is that it is not 100% guarantee ... meaning new RCV is useless if compressor is gone as well, so I might be paying for work which will not lead to functional A/C.

I don't have garage room, time and extra car to do this myself when I have spare time ...

Wouldn't it be great, if we lived in nice climate where A/C is not needed? LOL
 
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DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
Isn't the 2010 a Mk V? This thread has nothing to do with them.

All MK IV owners ignore the following:
That being said, one bad fan will not keep the compressor from working on a Mk V or Mk VI. If they did test it properly (and it is simple enough) the fan is bad.

The other decision is up to you, but I would make darn sure they put in a true Sanden compressor, not a knock-off, if you go that route. I would ask to see the new compressor before they started work. It should clearly be labeled "SANDEN". Then I would ask for your old compressor to take home with you. The old and new should essentially be identical.

Ontario is a land of plenty of TDI's. I would get someone to check out my system with a VCDS cable.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=253641 for more Mk V details.
 
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M

mxs

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2009
Location
Ontario
TDI
2010 Golf TDI
It's actually Mark VI.

I kind of realized that this thread is about older models, however people will frequently point you to this thread regardless that fact.

The guys in the shop are very good and honest bunch. I know when they say the fan is gone, that it is the case. What they were not 100% sure is when I asked about the fan stopping the A/C not functioning. They will call me later today.

I had the other day the car scanned the car with VCDS cable, but it really didn't turn out any codes regarding HVAC, A/C. At that point, I said to myself to stop wasting time, and go to the shop.

Thanks for the link to the other thread, I will definitely check it out before I make a decision.

BTW my car does not have Sanden compressor ... there's a label which reads Delphi? Not sure it makes a difference, but the shop uses only either OEM or worthy replacement brands.
 
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DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
First Delphi I have run across. But you interpreted the warning correctly.

I should have known it was a MK VI, my wife has one - but it has not been too important a difference so far.

I amended my statement above, the one fan being out will not prevent the AC from working in a MK V or MK VII.
 
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Brkbeatsci

Member
Joined
May 30, 2016
Location
Philadelphia
TDI
None
DanG144 said:
If you get new data from yours, please post it.
Click to expand...
Update: I replaced the pressure transducer to no effect. I then replaced the fan control module and everything came on the way it's supposed to. Glorious cold conditioned air from the vents...for about two minutes. Then it went back to the way it was. :mad:

Now I get to get another module and try to figure out what took them both out. This car is just begging for some switches and relays.
 
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AnotherPerson

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2015
Location
New Orleans
TDI
1999 Beetle
That's bad luck unless something else failed after it powered up. I had brand new fans die on low speed after only a couple mins. The brand that the vendors here sell
 
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Brkbeatsci

Member
Joined
May 30, 2016
Location
Philadelphia
TDI
None
I think when the get the next one I might relay isolate the loads before I fire up the new controller. Is there something besides the compressors and the fans anyone might suggest. The rest of the wires seem like signal wires. Can you even isolate the compressor? I thought I read somewhere that the module reads something on that circuit.
 
D

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
It is ok to unplug the compressor, typically. The FCM will sense an improper resistance on the compressor line, and stop feeding power down the line. It may still have leakage current which will produce a voltage, if it is only loaded by a high impedance voltmeter.

I would look really hard at your main power supply fuses, and ensure that they are providing power without too much voltage drop when fully loaded.

I would also do a good visual check on your T14 wiring, for corrosion on the back and internally.

Good luck.
 
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chongosuerte

Active member
Joined
Jun 28, 2006
Location
Wilmington, NC
TDI
2003 Beetle
Who are you guys using for replacement fans?

I had a Dorman that lasted less than a year. MUCH less than a year. Just checked everything and the low speeds aren't working, period. Can't get high speed to work from the thermoswitch (though there is a clicking somewhere), but they run on high when jumped. Hoping that replacements will work all around.

Damnit.

Anybody had any luck returning a limited lifetime item to Auto Zone?:cool:
 
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AnotherPerson

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2015
Location
New Orleans
TDI
1999 Beetle
chongosuerte said:
Who are you guys using for replacement fans?

I had a Dorman that lasted less than a year. MUCH less than a year. Just checked everything and the low speeds aren't working, period. Can't get high speed to work from the thermoswitch (though there is a clicking somewhere), but they run on high when jumped. Hoping that replacements will work all around.

Damnit.

Anybody had any luck returning a limited lifetime item to Auto Zone?:cool:
Click to expand...


AutoZone shouldn't give an issue on these fans. If they do they do have a backend system to view warranty numbers. Low speed on my dormans tastes about 5 weeks. I purchased them from amazon and when i got with amazon right past the return window and told them they had died and dorman said that amazon must replace and they will send new ones to amazon. Amazon ended up looking in there system for defective returns and complaints and refunded me and told me to toss em.

After this experience I did search around some. Advance/carquest and auto zone only offer the dorman units. Orilleys offers the dorman as a special order and the VDO FA70174 as a in stock. IDParts sells this unit so I figured its gotta be better. First set, 90 seconds in i smelt burnt fan. The fan was still running but the larger fan low speed was smoking so I took it back and swapped. So far so good on the next ones. Ive gotten 3 sets of the VDO's. (I have a spare set in the other room) All 3 sets of fans are made by different people. The one that burnt up almost instantly looked to be a VERY solid and nicely built fan. Fan produced by TYC.

I just opened up my fans I have sitting as spares and it appears (from what I remember) that these are the same fans as the ones on the car currently. Or I should say one of them. I didn't actually replace both as i didn't take the whole assembly off just the bad fan. So far so good with the little fan but that one uses a lot less power and I'm sure the chinese put the same size resistor in it.


So stay away from dorman like the plague. Be wary of TYC. VDO appears to have went to another supplier for there fans and so far so good VDO is also sold under the brand import direct. IDParts has since i fixed my car began carrying the OEM fans for a very good price. They also sell the VDO fan assembly for the beetle around $60 less than orilleys. I just chose to go with the local route for fan failures and lifetime warranty. If I had to do it again though I would go IDParts oem grade.


I will also note that the dorman was very out of balance. The new one on the car is better as it didn't need to be shimmed to keep it from hitting the shroud. We tried 2 dorman ones and both were the same..
 
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C

chongosuerte

Active member
Joined
Jun 28, 2006
Location
Wilmington, NC
TDI
2003 Beetle
AnotherPerson said:
AutoZone shouldn't give an issue on these fans. If they do they do have a backend system to view warranty numbers. Low speed on my dormans tastes about 5 weeks. I purchased them from amazon and when i got with amazon right past the return window and told them they had died and dorman said that amazon must replace and they will send new ones to amazon. Amazon ended up looking in there system for defective returns and complaints and refunded me and told me to toss em.

After this experience I did search around some. Advance/carquest and auto zone only offer the dorman units. Orilleys offers the dorman as a special order and the VDO FA70174 as a in stock. IDParts sells this unit so I figured its gotta be better. First set, 90 seconds in i smelt burnt fan. The fan was still running but the larger fan low speed was smoking so I took it back and swapped. So far so good on the next ones. Ive gotten 3 sets of the VDO's. (I have a spare set in the other room) All 3 sets of fans are made by different people. The one that burnt up almost instantly looked to be a VERY solid and nicely built fan. Fan produced by TYC.

I just opened up my fans I have sitting as spares and it appears (from what I remember) that these are the same fans as the ones on the car currently. Or I should say one of them. I didn't actually replace both as i didn't take the whole assembly off just the bad fan. So far so good with the little fan but that one uses a lot less power and I'm sure the chinese put the same size resistor in it.


So stay away from dorman like the plague. Be wary of TYC. VDO appears to have went to another supplier for there fans and so far so good VDO is also sold under the brand import direct. IDParts has since i fixed my car began carrying the OEM fans for a very good price. They also sell the VDO fan assembly for the beetle around $60 less than orilleys. I just chose to go with the local route for fan failures and lifetime warranty. If I had to do it again though I would go IDParts oem grade.


I will also note that the dorman was very out of balance. The new one on the car is better as it didn't need to be shimmed to keep it from hitting the shroud. We tried 2 dorman ones and both were the same..
Click to expand...
Thank you for your response. I've been sitting here pondering either just doing a continuous cycle of redeeming my "lifetime warranty" every time the Dormans crap out, or ordering whatever was recommended and trying to get my money back from Auto Zone. Your info is helpful!
 
A

AnotherPerson

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Oct 24, 2015
Location
New Orleans
TDI
1999 Beetle
chongosuerte said:
Thank you for your response. I've been sitting here pondering either just doing a continuous cycle of redeeming my "lifetime warranty" every time the Dormans crap out, or ordering whatever was recommended and trying to get my money back from Auto Zone. Your info is helpful!
Click to expand...


Do you change the whole piece or just move the fans over? Moving the fans in vs the whole assembly is much easier.
 
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AnotherPerson

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Oct 24, 2015
Location
New Orleans
TDI
1999 Beetle
It appears the fuse was blown. So I guess we will see what happens now. High pressure switch appears to not be working and there is a noise that I believe is the compressor :\.
 
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chongosuerte

Active member
Joined
Jun 28, 2006
Location
Wilmington, NC
TDI
2003 Beetle
AnotherPerson said:
I dunno, for us it takes about 20 min for both fans without the assembly. Must do the large fan before the smaller one.
Click to expand...
Just put in the new fans, everything is working. 301,500 miles and no major problems! Hoping to get to 500,000 lol

I was wrong though. We only changed the fans. My brother said we debated changing the whole housing last time, but we saw it was much easier to do the fans. Thankfully we kept the housing and I've bolted the old fans back to it to take back to autozone.
 
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AnotherPerson

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Joined
Oct 24, 2015
Location
New Orleans
TDI
1999 Beetle
chongosuerte said:
Just put in the new fans, everything is working. 301,500 miles and no major problems! Hoping to get to 500,000 lol

I was wrong though. We only changed the fans. My brother said we debated changing the whole housing last time, but we saw it was much easier to do the fans. Thankfully we kept the housing and I've bolted the old fans back to it to take back to autozone.
Click to expand...

Id be willing to bet they won't make it to 350k miles. Dorman junk :/
 
SilverGhost

SilverGhost

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Joined
Mar 25, 2005
Location
Back in So Flo - St Lucie
TDI
'05 Golf - totaled :(, wife's '13 Beetle - buy back, TDIless
We just had our second MkVI with aftermarket fans that don't work from the start. And second customer arguing with us that "It can't be the fans, I just put them in!" DOH!

Jason
 
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AnotherPerson

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Location
New Orleans
TDI
1999 Beetle
SilverGhost said:
We just had our second MkVI with aftermarket fans that don't work from the start. And second customer arguing with us that "It can't be the fans, I just put them in!" DOH!

Jason
Click to expand...

I was the same way. Wouldn't think only a couple weeks in the **** would die. Would put the company making them under.
 
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