'09 US-spec 140HP CR -> '09 EU-spec 170HP CR (in '06 body)

I am interested in replacing my BRM for CBEA (once they hit junk yards) and upgrade it to the oem 170HP (before further modifications, of course).

I did some part no. research and it seems the task is doable and does not require exchanging the whole engine.

I compared the parts of several TDI CR engines:
1. EU-spec Tiguan/Passat: CBAA/CBAB (140HP), CBBA/CBBB (170HP)
2. EU-spec Jetta: CBDA/CBDB (140HP), CEGA (170HP)
3. US-spec Jetta: CBEA (140HP)

The following parts need to be replaced for sure:
1. exhaust manifold and turbine
2. exhaust, DPF, and the rest of the exhaust (it is wider: 60mm vs. 55mm)
3. water pump
4. ECU
5. flywheel/clutch

The following parts need to be most likely replaced:
1. injectors - they are different for US, but I am not sure what the differences are.
2. intercooler - again, different for US

The parts that are different, but the replacement would be optional:
1. oil pan - no oil sensor for US

Everything else is the same (block, head, shafts, bearings, rods, valves, pumps, rails) among these engines.

Is there anything in particular that I should take into account or look for? I mean a particular part?

Doesn't it seem like it would be easier to just buy an '09 rather than swap out the BRM?

Anyway, this sort of thing is in it's infancy right now. I don't think many tuners have EDC17 support. Swapping the ECU probably won't be a simple job either as there is still the immobilizer to deal with. Those parts are going to cost you an arm and a leg and only for 30hp? You could definitely do better if you just spent the money to upgrade the BRM.

vwmikel said:

Doesn't it seem like it would be easier to just buy an '09 rather than swap out the BRM?

Anyway, this sort of thing is in it's infancy right now. I don't think many tuners have EDC17 support. Swapping the ECU probably won't be a simple job either as there is still the immobilizer to deal with. Those parts are going to cost you an arm and a leg and only for 30hp? You could definitely do better if you just spent the money to upgrade the BRM.

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It would seem that way... That or swap what you want out ie: the 09 CR motor in to the 2006 he already has. But If the EPA or your CARB state decides to start testing the 2009 cars ie: the Tier II bin 5 cars then you are going to have a hard time keeping the car legal etc.

From the thread where this started....http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=225229&page=3

maloosheck said:

Some interesting info:

EU spec '09 Jetta comes with two different 2.0L TDI CR engines: CBDA (140HP) and CEGA (170HP). The injectors appear to be exactly the same on both engines. So do the cam shafts. In fact the differences are very few: coolant pump (more efficient?), flywheel, turbocharger (both are borg wagner), exhaust (wider?).

It seems the CEGA turbocharger should be bolt in to US-spec CBEA engine in '09 Jetta.

By adding the EU-spec exaust that has only DPF (no NOX/H2S cats) and the EU-spec ECU and remapping everything, the engine would easily reach 200HP without compromising a single element in the engine.

Everyday I am more and more tempted to trade my '06 for '09 Or actually do the engine swap in my '06

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Why not just try to adapt the turbo/EM bolt pattern from the 16v head to work on the BRM 8v head? Then you can use the 170hp Euro CEGA turbo on the BRM you have already? Plus you have already put so much work in to the BRM... I know I have.

I plan on just using a Garrett turbo setup that can push my BRM close to 200hp. If it requires a new EM and exhaust and IC piping then so be it.

Sorry to go a bit OT but I think that is a far easier solution, unless you just really want the CEGA CR 2.0 motor, or want to use the BorgWarner factory turbo from it.

vwmikel said:

Doesn't it seem like it would be easier to just buy an '09 rather than swap out the BRM?

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There are several reasons not to buy '09: emissions, missing features, features already added etc.

vwmikel said:

Anyway, this sort of thing is in it's infancy right now. I don't think many tuners have EDC17 support. Swapping the ECU probably won't be a simple job either as there is still the immobilizer to deal with. Those parts are going to cost you an arm and a leg and only for 30hp? You could definitely do better if you just spent the money to upgrade the BRM.

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Well, we are talking about 70HP gain stock to stock which is 70% increase. And still talking about OEM stuff. Plus another 30HP easily with just a chip. And who know how much more with the future custom mods: twin turbo (we all know it is coming), higher pressure fuel pump, hi-flow cat instead of DPF.

Arm and leg? Well, I bet it still will be way cheaper to get CBEA and mod it to EU-spec 170HP than import one from EU. Unless bloody VW decides to bring 170HP CR in Tiguan...

maloosheck said:

There are several reasons not to buy '09: emissions, missing features, features already added etc.



Well, we are talking about 70HP gain stock to stock which is 70% increase. And still talking about OEM stuff. Plus another 30HP easily with just a chip. And who know how much more with the future custom mods: twin turbo (we all know it is coming), higher pressure fuel pump, hi-flow cat instead of DPF.

Arm and leg? Well, I bet it still will be way cheaper to get CBEA and mod it to EU-spec 170HP than import one from EU. Unless bloody VW decides to bring 170HP CR in Tiguan...

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Only issue you have there is any emissions requirement placed on the CBEA motor will apply no matter what car it goes in to, and you can not legaly remove any emmisions device. So if you want the CR 2.0 CBEA you have to get it with all the "stuff" DPF etc. Are you just after the 16v head and more factory turbo options? I think that is a great idea, if you did not have to keep the DPF and other junk.

I must still be missing your goal here, why not just mod the BRM?

Sorry I must be a little slow, not been sleeping much latley...lol you know why.

It kind of seems like a foreign concept to people on this site, but just about any turbo can be adapted to any engine. Just make a new exhaust manifold or make an adapter plate for an existing cast exhaust manifold. It's a bit of fab work but in the long run it's quite possible that you would be better off. With a GT2056V and a set of PD150 injectors I don't think there would really be any problem getting 200hp out of a BRM. The engine itself is actually very similar to the PD150 as it doesn't have divided intake ports. The main limiting factor with it really is that the turbo maxes out right about the same place the injectors do. When developing software for the BRM I found that the balance of low smoke and power happened to be right about the time that the turbo started to run away a little because the turbine is so small.

vwmikel said:

It's a bit of fab work but in the long run it's quite possible that you would be better off. With a GT2056V and a set of PD150 injectors I don't think there would really be any problem getting 200hp out of a BRM.

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That is exactly what I want to do.

I just need to find the EM or have one made, and how to get the comp. air from the turbo back to the IC via the lower IC pipe.

SBAtdijetta said:

That is exactly what I want to do.

I just need to find the EM or have one made, and how to get the comp. air from the turbo back to the IC via the lower IC pipe.

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You can buy mandrel bent pipe sections. Just cut them to the right shape and weld them together. They are the same size throughout so there is no problem cutting them on the bends and such. They come in various lengths, radius', diameters, materials, etc.

A manifold can be made using weld els from places like ace stainless or burns stainless (if you're rich). Head flanges are available from techtonics.

vwmikel said:

You can buy mandrel bent pipe sections. Just cut them to the right shape and weld them together. They are the same size throughout so there is no problem cutting them on the bends and such. They come in various lengths, radius', diameters, materials, etc.

A manifold can be made using weld els from places like ace stainless or burns stainless (if you're rich). Head flanges are available from techtonics.

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Mike,
I see your point, however I have zero welding skills (mig,tig or arc), and no welder... that leaves me with a few less options that you. I do know of a club member close that can weld though, maybe I will give him a call!
-Steve

Maloosheck sorry for jacking your thread!!!

SBAtdijetta said:

Mike,
I see your point, however I have zero welding skills (mig,tig or arc), and no welder... that leaves me with a few less options that you. I do know of a club member close that can weld though, maybe I will give him a call!
-Steve

Maloosheck sorry for jacking your thread!!!

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I know this is the case for most people. I'm not even a very good welder myself and only have a MIG so I make a friend of mine do my finish welding with his TIG. I only mention this stuff to try to show people that it's more than just possible, it's doable and if you can find someone close to you with some fab skills it shouldn't really be a painful endeavor.

maloosheck said:

Arm and leg? Well, I bet it still will be way cheaper to get CBEA and mod it to EU-spec 170HP than import one from EU. Unless bloody VW decides to bring 170HP CR in Tiguan...

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Then you'd have to find a wrecked/junked TDI Tiguan.

What kind of torque does the EU spec put out?

258 ft/lbs with manual gearbox. DSG probably less

Please forgive, but I thought the ruling was that you could put newer engines in older cars as long as you matched pollution control figures for the original year requirements. I guess its not that easy?

According to everything I can find on the DPF it represents the power bottle neck. There is however a lot of technology available for DPFs so that should be surmountable.

vwmikel said:

You can buy mandrel bent pipe sections. Just cut them to the right shape and weld them together. They are the same size throughout so there is no problem cutting them on the bends and such. They come in various lengths, radius', diameters, materials, etc.

A manifold can be made using weld els from places like ace stainless or burns stainless (if you're rich). Head flanges are available from techtonics.

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I've some stainless 8v flanges left btw

best doable thing imo is still use an old body without CAn, take a 16v CR, and adapt sensors and ecu from a edc15 CR equipped car (bmw, merc, psa etc)

I don't really get the point of sticking a CR engine in place of a PD. Just buy the 2009. Why go through the headache of trying to use OEM parts to increase performance when you could get some custom fabbing (exhaust manifold to fit a big VNT, port the head, 150 injectors) and you will have a reliable PD that will easily push over 200hp? While you're having the head ported, throw in the upgraded lifters. Then get RC Jeff to work his magic and you'll have a car others here will drool over.

Maloosheck, drop the OEM obsession!!!

2footbraker said:

I don't really get the point of sticking a CR engine in place of a PD. Just buy the 2009. Why go through the headache of trying to use OEM parts to increase performance when you could get some custom fabbing (exhaust manifold to fit a big VNT, port the head, 150 injectors) and you will have a reliable PD that will easily push over 200hp? While you're having the head ported, throw in the upgraded lifters. Then get RC Jeff to work his magic and you'll have a car others here will drool over.

Maloosheck, drop the OEM obsession!!!

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He's talking about hitting 200 hp before aftermarket turbos!
From there he could put on a big Garret turbo and go much further!

Btw how much would it be to import the EU 170 hp version?

King Jee said:

He's talking about hitting 200 hp before aftermarket turbos!
From there he could put on a big Garret turbo and go much further!

Btw how much would it be to import the EU 170 hp version?

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Got any first born children?

Btw if you have to ask...

King Jee said:

He's talking about hitting 200 hp before aftermarket turbos!

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Precisely. Just a mild chip should get me there .

King Jee said:

Btw how much would it be to import the EU 170 hp version?

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Less than paying junkyard for CBEA...

good luck with customs. You will need to have it shipped in a container to hope its gets threw customs. Ask me how I know I had an engine siezed and it was a 1z legal to be in the states. And the gave me the pd150 illegal to be here. There process is a cluster fudge. If you can not produce an epa compliance letter from vw you will be luckey to get it.

SBAtdijetta said:

Only issue you have there is any emissions requirement placed on the CBEA motor will apply no matter what car it goes in to, and you can not legaly remove any emmisions device. So if you want the CR 2.0 CBEA you have to get it with all the "stuff" DPF etc. Are you just after the 16v head and more factory turbo options? I think that is a great idea, if you did not have to keep the DPF and other junk.

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as long as you don't tell anyone what engine is it there how will they know? I bet the 09 would run fine on an older PD ecu.

i like to stick to mk2 and 3's for my engine swaps, but NY doesn't scan diesels and i have friends at shops so who needs a cat?

i know of a local 700+ HP STI registered as a diesel because its on standalone and won't pass any other way.

all-starr-me said:

as long as you don't tell anyone what engine is it there how will they know? I bet the 09 would run fine on an older PD ecu.

i like to stick to mk2 and 3's for my engine swaps, but NY doesn't scan diesels and i have friends at shops so who needs a cat?

i know of a local 700+ HP STI registered as a diesel because its on standalone and won't pass any other way.

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An '09 would not run on any PD ECU.