LOUD clatter

I replaced the cylinder head on my 2002 automatic and now have such a LOUD clatter that I can not drive the car in public. The far left lifter on my old head had worn through and I decided to replace the head rather than take a chance on having bad valve guides on the 179K engine. The pistons showed no signs of wear or damage when I removed the old head. Within the the last 6 months I have replaced the fuel filter, installed swap injectors from DBW, and completed the timing belt change. The timing is set between the top 2 lines on VCDS. My questions ... can the oil pump fail? What are the symptoms? If not an oil pressure issue, what could be causing the clatter? Thank you in advance for any suggestions.

Hydraulic lifters need some time to adjust themselves. If you know you did the work correctly, it needs to run a while to break in the top end.
If you are confident enough I would drive it down the interstate at about 60 for an hour, no hard runs until the clattering goes away. See if the clatter goes away in an hour, or decreases significantly.

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Thank you for the reply eddieleephd. Driving on the highway to break it in may be in my future, but not just yet. I may try priming the oil pump by pulling all the glow plugs and turning the engine over with out starting it. I'm thinking I may not be getting oil to the lifters and cam shaft.

Yeah, if the hydraulic lifters haven't pressurized enough to stop the clatter within a few seconds, something isn't right.

Maybe your old head was damaged by lack of oil. The good news is it's really easy to replace the oil pump, unless you also have to replace the chain and tensioner.

If you have to replace the chain and tensioner, then you have to remove the timing belt, crank sprocket, and the carrier that holds the front crank seal. Much more work, but if you have to do it you have to do it.

If your oil pump drive chain and tensioner are okay, then changing the oil pump is about ten extra minutes of work once you get the oil pan off. One bolt holding the drive sprocket on, and three bolts holding the pump to the block. Or was it two bolts to the block... In any event, very easy.

I've replaced a head and lifters and they clattered for about five seconds the first time the engine was started, and then never again. Mine was a BEW engine, but the lifters are exactly the same.

It's possible a piece of dirt got in an injector and it's firing incorrectly. Try cracking the lines open one at a time to see if the noise goes away.

Very strange. When I replaced my cam and lifters (BRM engine) the new lifters quit clattering within about
15 to 30 seconds or less after initial start up. Put a direct reading oil pressure gauge on your engine would be my next step. Clearly, something is not right. I would not drive the car to "break in" the lifters. If you do have low oil pressure for any reason that break in drive will severely damage the engine.

Is it possible you bought garbage Chinese lifters? I never ever buy important engine parts off of E-Bay or Amazon.

burn_your_money said:

It's possible a piece of dirt got in an injector and it's firing incorrectly. Try cracking the lines open one at a time to see if the noise goes away.

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What "lines" exactly are you referring to? lifters have no "lines" that you can just "crack open".

Burn meant to attempt to rule out a "missing" injector (diagnosis).

And, yes, running it until "it-either-explodes-or-cures" is insane advice. Banjo stuff....really.

Ol'Rattler, he is referring to the Injector Lines. The guy did have to remove then in order to remove the head and install a new one. Thus, his theory is that some junk may have got in one of the injector lines (hard pipes) that's possibly blocking one or more of the 5 tiny holes in the injector......... causing a clattering noise when it injects/fires ....

It would be nice to hear the sound.

I'd remove the valve cover to see if there is any oil getting to the top. If it is still bone dry, the issue is obviously lower down in the engine........... like oil pump, stuck valve in the oil filter housing, etc.

Pulled the valve cover and it looks like I'm not getting oil to the camshaft. Andybees, where is this stuck valve in the oil filter housing located? I got the part about it being in the oil filter housing, my question is ...how do I get at it to check it? I will be dropping the oil pan tomorrow to check the pick up tube and oil pump. Thanks for the suggestions.

Did the oil filter get replaced? The O-ring at the bottom of the filter housing may have not been installed properly. If it doesn't seal, there won't be any oil in there to get filtered and sent through the engine.

I hope you kept your old head. There is likely nothing wrong with it that can't be
easily refreshed or repaired. The new one may now have issues after running it dry.
Even if your new one is still usable the old one is valuable to the TDI community.
Maybe trade it for a turbo - those don't like being run dry either.

There are at least two check valves in the filter housing.

One of them can be seen with the filter out and all the excess oil out. The other one is only visible if the housing is removed from the engine.

But, since you are getting oil to the head, I doubt one of the check valves is sticking or has something wedge under the lip.

Joep1234, made a good point. If that small O-ring on the long plastic piece is missing, not on properly, or has been neglected and now hard as a bone, oil will by-pass there back to the oil pan.

Flee makes a good point about your old head.

mcquinn said:

Pulled the valve cover and it looks like I'm not getting oil to the camshaft

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If you are going to be running the engine any more for diagnostics, you should crack open the turbo return line and verify that you have oil coming out of the turbo. Remove the feed line from the turbo and put some oil in the turbo at the very least.

Yeah you need to figure that out immediately -- if there is no oil getting to the camshaft there is also likely zero (or near zero) oil pressure at the mains and you're minutes (if that) away from catastrophic crank and rod damage.

DO NOT RUN THE ENGINE UNTIL YOU FIGURE OUT WHY.

No, there is one other possibility which I have (in private emails) encouraged the OP to consider and determine through looking at photos of assembled engines:

he may have placed the head gasket upside down and occluded the oil port form the block. Over the years, many 1.6 guys have done just that. Sounds odd, but it happens.

However, the damage sustained in the original head sets off alarms...to a certain extent.

EDIT: after reviewing photos of my own alh rebuilds, it appears as though the gasket thickness tab (with the number-of-holes-punched) is located on the belt-side of the center drain hump.

In other words, the ID holes sit directly in front of the #2 cylinder.

OP, is THIS where your holes are currently located?

If the head gasket is on correctly then I would not even start the car until you drop the pan and look at the oil pump or figure out what is wrong. Damage happens quick with no oil pressure. It may already be too late. Rod bearings get hot and spin in a hurry. Something is really wrong with no oil getting to the head. Maybe the chain broke or something fell off but it sounds serious. If something is found to be wrong with the oil pump then the bearings need to be inspected. Even the cam probably should be inspected at the bearing caps. They can wear quickly as well.

pretty common for hydraulic lifters to not fill up until 4k rpm or better
got a ford 302 that needs some 'redline for a good time' just about every other time it's been sitting

mcquinn said:

Pulled the valve cover and it looks like I'm not getting oil to the camshaft. Andybees, where is this stuck valve in the oil filter housing located? I got the part about it being in the oil filter housing, my question is ...how do I get at it to check it? I will be dropping the oil pan tomorrow to check the pick up tube and oil pump. Thanks for the suggestions.

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This is what the OP said in Post #10.

Thank you all for your ideas and suggestions. All's well that ends well. When I first installed the new head I was bleeding the injector lines to get the car to start. Mildly distracted by the fuel spray, I missed the oil leaking out of the hole just below the vacuum pump. Apparently I lost the prime to the oil pump. I found the plug left on the old head and installed it on the new head. And as so many of you pointed out, don't drive the car without oil pressure. So I was extremely cautious, starting the car for under 15 seconds and then searching the forum. All of your suggestions led me to removing the glow plugs and the fuel pump wire and turn the engine over. This generating a beautiful oil bath to the camshaft and lifters. Amen. I buttoned it back up and the car is back on the road. I will watch the engine and head during break in, but I think I'm as good as silver. Thanks again to everyone and the excellent suggestions.

Whew!

That head should never have been sold missing the oil galley plug.

So its called an oil galley plug. Didn't know. I was surprised when I saw the puddle of oil and the hole in the cylinder head. I figured everybody else knew to switch the plug. Good to hear that it should have come with the plug. Thanks for all your help.

Where did you get the head from? That's awful.