2003 ALH Timing Belt Change Interval

Yes, this has been beat to death (with it being argued back and forth down through the years) but does anyone have:

• a definitive statement from VWoA that the parts now used by dealers for timing belt change are good for 100K? There is, of course, this link
• up-to-date OEM VW parts list?

My regular mechanic couldn't fit me in so I had to go to the dealer. The service mgr was of the opinion that the interval was 80K. I am looking for a definitive VWoA ref to educate him, He is a good guy.

Please let's not have stealership rants on this. He had two timing belts break at 50K with unhappy customers, so he's (understandably) once burned on the timing belt change interval unless I can show him different.


I did come across this excellent post by n1das about TB upgrade history from back in 2011....

The change to 80k miles and stronger belt and tensioner was a mid-year 2001 change with the ALH engine.

The intervals previously were 60k miles (manual tranny) and 40k miles (auto-tragic tranny) with the shorter life belt and tensioner. What transmission the car had wasn't the issue but auto tranny TDIs had an 11mm pump and smaller injectors vs. manual tranny TDIs having a 10mm pump and bigger injectors. Auto tranny TDIs end up loading the belt more, hence the shorter TB change interval in those TDIs. With the change to 80k miles with the long life belt and stronger tensioner to go with it, whether you have a 10mm pump (manual tranny) or an 11mm pump (auto-tragic tranny) doesn't matter. The end result was that the change to a stronger belt and tensioner and 80k mile interval was a mid-year 2001 change and affected 2002 model year TDIs.

In 2003, the large roller of the 3 TB rollers was changed to a roller having a larger bearing, enabling it to go 100k miles. The TB change interval for 2003 was increased to 100k miles. The same 80k belt and tensioner are used. My concern with the 100k interval is the smaller rollers weren't upgraded and may not be up to surviving 100k miles. Those small rollers spin at VERY HIGH RPMs!!

From my TB change experiences in my 02 Golf (sold it several months ago), I nearly had a failure TWICE and luckily caught each of them in time during each TB change at ~ 100k intervals. I decided to stick with an 80k mile change interval after that even though I'm using the 100k mile TB change kit.

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Seldom does the belt break on its own, so if he's had a couple fail within 50k miles it was probably due to not changing out some of the other parts in the belt path that VW views as "discretionary". Waterpump, roller/idlers, etc..
Most of the quality aftermarket replacement belts/parts are sold as 100k mile kits. My own personal interval will continue to be 75-80k miles since I don't accumulate many miles between the two TDIs anymore.
Definitive answer may be out there, but doesn't fit all circumstances. If I was running a lot of all hiway miles in short periods of time I wouldn't have a problem with exceeding the 100k mile interval a bit. But, a shorter interval will probably only add one extra service into the total life of a long term ownership. Small price to pay, especially since I do my own work.

You've got the history of timing belt change intervals from n1das. And the 2003 has a 100K change interval. However, early '03s may not have had all the component upgrades and dealers may show an 80K interval. This is further complicated by PDs ('04 and '05 MKIVs) going from an original 100K mile interval to an 80K mile interval, so the '03 may be (incorrectly) painted with that brush.

Also, dealers typically install the same belt as the one that came in the car, regardless of what's available. So if you bring an '00 Jetta to a dealer for timing belt service, they could well install a 60K mile belt (if they can find one).

So your answer is a little more complex than the 80 vs. 100K miles. What did the dealer replace? If they replaced the whole system you should get the part numbers from each component to evaluate whether they are long life components or not. For example, timing belts that end with the letter "M" are 100K mile belts.

If the dealer didn't change the entire system including the water pump, I, sadly, would suggest you have the job done again.

If the job is done correctly with all the parts and are of good quality, 100k miles is not an issue. The ALH's system is very good. Most failures come from poor parts, incorrect poor procedures, or neglect.

I have been working on ALH cars since they came out, and I have never once, ever, seen anything different. I have seen plenty of later (textured belt) cars go WELL over 100k miles from the factory. The longest was a 2002 5sp NB that finally had a belt failure at 186k miles.

What I HAVE seen, repeatedly, is someone (often, but not limited to, a dealer) replace JUST a belt, and 10k miles later, one of the rollers fails... or they simply do the job WRONG, and 1000 miles later the system falls apart.

If you are taking an ALH car into a dealer, you should be being sold a "toothed belt repair kit", which includes the belt, the rollers, and the tensioner. Then a water pump, a vacuum pump seal, and some bolts, and an accessory belt. Any year ALH. None of this piecemeal crap they try (the dealer retail on a belt and tensioner alone is about what the whole repair kit costs).

The part number is 038-198-119-E

sdean7855 said:

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Please let's not have stealership rants on this. He had two timing belts break at 50K with unhappy customers, so he's (understandably) once burned on the timing belt change interval unless I can show him different...........................

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Assuming "He" is the Service Writer at the dealer, that's a sales pitch.
Change interval for 2003 TDI is 100k miles, many recommend 80 or 90 to be safe.
Dealers are 2 separate businesses under one roof, sales, service. VWoA is another entity.

Parts Breakout Invoice for my TB Change

http://sdean.net/HeartVWTBChangeInvoice.JPG

As I said, my usual mechanic that's done my work for 30 years was buried in work and cancelled my appt to do the work. I expected the dealership to charge more.
I'm happy to see that the belt part # has the -M suffix denoting the 100K belt.

sdean7855 said:

http://sdean.net/HeartVWTBChangeInvoice.JPG

As I said, my usual mechanic that's done my work for 30 years was buried in work and cancelled my appt to do the work. I expected the dealership to charge more.
I'm happy to see that the belt part # has the -M suffix denoting the 100K belt.

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Yep, you got screwed. Just like I said, when they sell you all those pieces by themselves, it totals $445.... or for about $280 you can buy the genuine Volkswagen kit....from the same dealer. Derp.

Some dealers sell it even cheaper:

https://www.jimellisvwparts.com/productSearch.aspx?searchTerm=038-198-119-e

The parts, including ALL of the must-replace bolts, are about $300. Including the water pump, all rollers, tensioner and belt, plus cam seal. Anyone invoicing individual parts is robbing you as the KIT contains all the must-replace and should-replace parts, and selling them one-at-a-time makes utterly no sense for this job whatsoever.

Labor-wise it takes ME about 6-7 hours to do it, in my garage, with no lift. In a REAL shop with a lift which makes life easier? It's faster. Derp. Book is what -- 4.5 hours? That's about right, in a real shop.

I've had one "early replace" occasioned by a water pump seal failure. Why? Don't know. Pump was replaced previously with the last belt (I did it, so I know it was changed) and the shaft seal started leaking. It happens. It was at ~80k miles so.... yeah. The rest of the components -- rollers, tensioner, the belt itself -- were fine that time around.

There's a lot of game-playing in the auto repair/maintenance business. There are also plenty of "gurus" that do good work on here, or you can do it yourself. If you do it you know it was done right (or wrong, if it is, you know who the idiot is that did it.) If it's a guru it was almost-certainly done right. At a stealer? Who knows -- some of them have done the mark-n-pray deal, so.... yeah.

I'm pretty sure my 2003 wagon's belt was original when I replaced it at 210,000 miles. (I just bought it this spring) It had faded Audi/VW markings on it, so I'm pretty sure it was original.

And, then this TB endured a locked-up solid Water Pump....... (to be clear, this happened at 50k on the TB job.)

This occurred to the ALH in my Vanagon, May 2017. I had just cut onto a side road to drop a friend off at his house when I heard the horrible sound. Keep in mind, inside the Vanagon is nothing like inside a Jetta when it comes to road and engine noise. Combine that with my bad hearing, well, it's no telling how far I had driven. I do know I was running about 60 mph in 4th gear which is about the same as 4th gear in the Jetta (thus relatively high RPMs) ...

At 50k miles, I say, "damn good Timing Belt to endure the carnage!"




Below, look at the anti-freeze soaked shredded TB pieces. Yes, just as I cut the engine off, the low coolant light come on!



So, in my opinion, if a TB breaks at 50k and there is no evidence of a contributing factor, well it was either defective, installer may have damaged it, or the installer tensioned it too tight which should have been recognized by a very loud noise coming from the belt at the get go.

I've seen an OE TB at 149k miles, documented. I've seen one at 152k documented and with stripped teeth. I've seen one that I installed on a friend's car that made it to 142k no issues. I've seen a 60k mile belt go to 105k miles and strip teeth.

I know of either an 01 or 02 Jetta automatic that is presently at 146k miles on the OE TB.

The TB on my new to me 03 Jetta is at 98k miles. I'll change it next spring!

Oh, the TB above did not jump time!

Edit: I actually re-started the engine to move the Van further off the road....

mrfiat said:

I'm pretty sure my 2003 wagon's belt was original when I replaced it at 210,000 miles. (I just bought it this spring) It had faded Audi/VW markings on it, so I'm pretty sure it was original.

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New replacement genuine VAG parts have VAG part numbers and brand marks on them.

I've bought two 2003 MklV Jettas with broken TBs as projects. Both had original belts. Both had 165k miles, give or take a thousand. Coincidence, I would say. One was a TDI the other a 1.8T. The TDI appeared to have the tensioner fail and strip off the belt teeth. The 1.8 had the WP locked up solid and a worn tensioner damper. Either way, neither belt was the first casualty in the event.

I do think that most people don't use VAG timing belts when they replace the timing belt, which is one of the reasons that I think it was original. Also the water pump seemed to be original, but there was no way to be sure since the car came with no records. I looked at threads on this site to try to figure out if those parts were original and they might have been from what people said on here. I'm just glad it didn't fail!

mrfiat said:

I do think that most people don't use VAG timing belts when they replace the timing belt, which is one of the reasons that I think it was original. Also the water pump seemed to be original, but there was no way to be sure since the car came with no records. I looked at threads on this site to try to figure out if those parts were original and they might have been from what people said on here. I'm just glad it didn't fail!

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Typically if the owner takes it into the dealer for at least the first TB service they will replace just the belt (OEM, of course) and perhaps "inspect" the WP and maybe replace the tensioner and send it out the door. Hence OEM belt and WP. Maybe...