grinding with metal flakes isolated to timing belt-03 jetta tdi

Hi all, started my 03 jetta tdi up this morning after not driving it for about 1 week and heard a metal grinding type of noise coming from the engine. Turned off/on AC with no change.

The sound is coming from the passenger side near the timing belt/serpentine belt. I removed the timing belt cover and saw metal flakes spout up...not like snowing or anything, but a small amount, probably not noticeable if you weren't paying attention. The belt itself appears fine.

I removed the serprentine belt to identify if it's the tensioner/belt/alt pulley but the noise persisted despite removing belt.

So I've isolated it to the timing belt but not certain where to go from here. I've done a search but can't seem to come up with anything further than alt pulley...

I had my timing belt replaced by a "tdi guru" approximately 10k miles ago, replaced the alt pulley and serpentine belt approx 9500 miles ago...the car is about 105k miles on it, always been taken care of... According to the "guru" everything was changed out at the time of the timing belt change.

1. Any idea's?

2. Anyone know of any tdi guru's in the sacramento/Davis area if it comes to that?

Thanks in advance

Tensioner, water pump, or one of the idler pulleys is probably failing early. It happens. Don't drive the car as if it lets go, it will crash the engine.

x2 with Ski.

Wow, good catch!
I wouldn't recommend running it until you solve the problem.

Sounds like you've narrowed it down to either water pump, roller or TB tensioner - hopefully, and surely, not your injection pump.

About the only advice I could give would be to use a small telescopic mirror and see if you can find where the rub is. Maybe the metal dust will make it easier to find. I'd start by looking at the water pump.

On the bright side, at least you caught it before it ate the timing belt and crashed the motor.

The sound seems loudest at the level of the water pump...but 10k miles on it brand new? Can they die that early?

No they should not die that early. But they can, for a number of reasons.

Can you say which parts were changed and which manufacturer's components were used...... and continue looking.....because we really have not clearly identified a problem, only presented a number of possible answers to your questions and observations.
I would not even turn that motor over until more info is forthcoming. You may have been very very lucky....even if you are still in limbo.

The rotating mirror and a small bright flashlight are your best friends right now.

I just changed a working water pump in my VR6... the old one had just shy of 200K miles on it so I figured it was time to replace.

The new pump failed just under 10K miles.

Sometimes new parts can be scarier than old parts... which is why I'm less enthusiastic these days about replacing things early.

Unfortunately, when it comes to the timing belt path on a TDI... you just have to replace everything regularly and hope that when you spin the wheel it doesn't land on "bankrupt".

So I'm okay at working on the car itself, at the time, I opted to take the car in to get TB as well as everything else replaced given TB was going to be time consuming and a pain in the a**...does that mean I have to pull the TB out and replace and tune it up again?

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but...

rgshredder said:

Hi all, started my 03 jetta tdi up this morning after not driving it for about 1 week and heard a metal grinding type of noise coming from the engine. Turned off/on AC with no change.

The sound is coming from the passenger side near the timing belt/serpentine belt. I removed the timing belt cover and saw metal flakes spout up...not like snowing or anything, but a small amount, probably not noticeable if you weren't paying attention. The belt itself appears fine.

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Metal flakes? Probably aluminum from the engine mount.

Reminds me of this thread.

Funny cause I was going to mention that. I'm still running on that same timing belt too. Will replace when it hits 100k in a few months though.

nate379 said:

Funny cause I was going to mention that. I'm still running on that same timing belt too. Will replace when it hits 100k in a few months though.

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Just read your thread again. You did the right thing buying the $90.00 OEM motor mount. The aftermarket motor mounts have been known to break for no apparent reason.

@nate and migbro:
you guys got my heart pumping, I thought I had a tangible solution that I might be able to handle as nate's original post sounds very familiar, but as far as I can tell, I can't appreciate any breaks in the mount.
At this point I still can't clearly identify the source, I'll be towing it to a shop next week as I want the timing belt/installation inspected thoroughly to rule out improper timing belt installation vs part malfunction.

I'll keep this thread updated when I get news.
Thanks for the advice thus far, truly appreciated.

so the culprit is a loose water pump bolt that was grinding down on the pulley; according to the mechanic it was installation error by the first mechanic. There's a small bite missing from the timing belt which they're recommending I replace.
Anyone have any experience with a bolt slipping out like that...act of God/Devil/Karma or linked to installation error? They're gonna take it apart and see if anything else was installed incorrectly, but as it stands, not sure if I'm gonna pursue litigation or be thankful it was caught before major damage was done...

Here I go with the bad news again...

Installation error.

rgshredder said:

so the culprit is a loose water pump bolt that was grinding down on the pulley; according to the mechanic it was installation error by the first mechanic. There's a small bite missing from the timing belt which they're recommending I replace.
Anyone have any experience with a bolt slipping out like that...act of God/Devil/Karma or linked to installation error? They're gonna take it apart and see if anything else was installed incorrectly, but as it stands, not sure if I'm gonna pursue litigation or be thankful it was caught before major damage was done...

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I forgot to put the last little Umph on one of those water pump bolts once.

the bolt not only chewed up the belt, but it also poked a nice hole in the front crank seal carrier piece.. HUGE oil leak was discovered which helped to find the initial issue. good thing I had a spare parts engine laying around for that one.. took the seal carrier off and hand delivered it and a complete timing belt kit to the shop in Pittsburgh (Jamie) who took care of my customer for me by finding the hole in the carrier, and performing the repair at my expense, saving them an expensive tow to my place.

so if it only got the timing belt AND it didn't snap completely, you are lucky.

Growler said:

<snip>... saving them an expensive tow to my place. <snip>

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Saving Who an expensive tow? Lol

schwarze Käfer said:

Saving Who an expensive tow? Lol

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If that had happened at many other shops they would have told the customer they were on their own and good luck.

Growler is an outstanding mechanic and human. Good mechanics go the extra mile... that's Growler. I'd trust him with my motor in a heartbeat. He's a good human, but humans do make mistakes.

Thank God I'm a robot, I would hate to ever make a mistake. Beep, boop, bop, whirrr....

manual_tranny said:

If that had happened at many other shops they would have told the customer they were on their own...

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Down boy, down!
Now don't take me wrong - I was just poking fun at his choice of words- nothing intended to discredit his ethics or good intentions.

No, it's quite refreshing when a professional mechanic admits a mistake and makes it right, especially when it's at his expense.

at the time of the initial tow, it was only thought to be a major oil leak like from a busted pan or something, there wasn't any thought about the recent timing belt service other than to check the cam seal to see if it sprung a leak. (didnt) so we put our heads together over the phone while his car was sitting in the parking lot leaking oil and came up with Jamie out his way near Pittsburgh to have the car inspected. Jamie then found the issue with the water pump bolt installation, and from there, it was all on my dime & time to drop off the parts to repair his car. (I took a day off from my normal 9-5 to take the parts out to Jamie to get the job done quicker for my Customer)

schwarze, thanks for the clarification on your initial statement.

(I am hardly a professional Mechanic, Just a guy who loves these cars and when I work on them, I treat every one as if it were my own, and as if I need to rely on this car to make my living.)

I was very sick to my stomach to get that phone call. and did all I could to make it right as quickly as possible.

Growler said:

I was very sick to my stomach to get that phone call. and did all I could to make it right as quickly as possible.

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I spoke with the manager at the shop to have the mechanic who did my timing belt give me a ring, still hasn't returned my call...pushing on a week now...

Sorry Growler, in no way did I mean to offend and I certainly didn't know the lengths you went to in order to take care of your customer. That's uber-rare and you are to be commended.

No one should expect anyone not to make a mistake - we all do. It's how we handle those mistakes that define who we are.

Good for you Growler, easy to make mistakes now and then....but how you handle them defines you. Nice to see you took the High Road.

Rgshredder, sucks to have a potential fight on your hands, as well as a repair. I wouldn't let this slide any further, call them again and let them know that costs are mounting every day they delay.

At some point soon you will have to take action that will prove even more costly to everyone involved

Well to close this thread up; I did take my car to a third party mechanic- Tomas' in Berkley- GREAT GROUP OF GUYS!
They said good guys bio didn't torque down all of the bolts during the timing belt, they found them all loose when they went in to redo it the timing belt. One bolt was having direct contact with one of the pulleys as a result;
After not being able to get a hold of good guys biodiesel I started to look online for alternative contacts or new numbers etc and came across this...
http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/rss/ci_18392702?source=rss

suffice it to say, I'm thankful my car didn't get totally effed during this process given what I read...the shop is closed as of now and the numbers have all been disconnected...not sure if they're facing jail time or what but, what goes around and all that...