Will you turn in your tuned CR if VW offers buybacks?

Anyone find anything for sure in the court documents on if you can turn in a Dpf deleted vehicle without repercussions? To go back to stock I'd have to buy another stock turbo for the egr. I'd hate to turn it in and then find out a year or more later if/when vw tried to fix it for resale that they're coming after me for selling a vehicle with tampered emissions equipment.

I love my car but if I dont give it back now I'll never get anything for it since the value fell so much. I've got my eye on a Nissan 370Z possibly. Not sure if I can let my car go though

^I don't think you have anything to worry about. In all likelihood the car would be destroyed. Even if not, they wouldn't be coming after you. The language I saw said the car had to be operable. Nothing about it being street legal. I don't think there are enough deleted tdi's to concern VW anyhow.

YukonLT said:

Yep. Mine has Buzzken Exhaust, Malone Stage 3.6 tune, CR170 turbo, CP3 HPFP, FixMyVW race pipe, 2Micron pre-filter, Bilstein shocks, GTI wheels....

No idea what I want to do at this point.

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That's a no brainer - you keep driving it. With that setup, how could you not know what to do?

turbobrick240 said:

I was just talking to pkhoury about that. The mkiv's up here tend to be rust buckets. I'd have to get one on one of my annual trips to Texas. But I really don't need another car right now. Congrats on the 300k milestone!

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You can never have too many diesels, or TDIs for that matter.

Ha, the irony being I bought my Golf in Austin, but it has rust issues (as it was imported by the PO from Quebec).

turbobrick240 said:

One of my goals when I bought my car was to see the odometer roll over 300k miles. I'd hate to give up on that now.

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That was my original milestone. Now it's 450K. By this time next year, I'll be over 200K for sure.

aja8888 said:

Get yourself a MKIV while they are still available!

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I'll be honest - I love driving the Mk6, but I love driving my Mk4 even more. The only thing I like better on the Mk6 is the legroom. PD or ALH, you can't go wrong.

turbobrick240 said:

^I don't think you have anything to worry about. In all likelihood the car would be destroyed. Even if not, they wouldn't be coming after you. The language I saw said the car had to be operable. Nothing about it being street legal. I don't think there are enough deleted tdi's to concern VW anyhow.

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In the documents it is pretty clear that the vehicle has to be registered.

That said.. I just found something that gives me a bit of worry.. section 4.

"Have not been modified pursuant to an approved emissions modification"

Does that specifically mean anything that hasn't had "the fix" is eligible?



V.
“
Eligible Vehicle
” means Model Year 2009 through 2015 Volkswagen light-duty
vehicles equipped with 2.0-liter
TDI engines that are (1) in th
e table immediately below this paragraph; (2) registered with a
state Department of Motor Vehicles
or equivalent agency or held
by bill of sale by a non-Volkswagen Dealer in the
United States or its territories as of June 28,
2016; (3) for an Eligible Owner, is
currently Operable or ceases to
be Operable after the date set
by the Court for consumers to opt out of the Cl
ass Action or the Effective Date, whichever is
earlier; and (4) have not been modified pursuant to an Approved Emissions Modification.




Seems you are covered in the bad HPFP hypothetical:

F.
For any Eligible Owner with an Eligible Vehi
cle that is Operable as of the date set
by the Court for consumers to opt out of the Cl
ass Action or the Effective Date, whichever is
earlier, but which ceases to be Operable before
the vehicle can be brought in for a Buyback,
upon submission of an Eligible Owner’s comple
te and valid claim application pursuant to
Section XIII and surrender of all right, title, a
nd interest in, and possession of, the Eligible
Vehicle to Defendant at a Volkswagen Dealer (or other entity authorized by Defendant),
Defendant shall pay Eligible Owner Non-Operable
Restitution to the Eligible Owner. If an
Eligible Owner does not possess title to the Eligible
Vehicle, for title to th
e Eligible Vehicle to
be transferred to Defendant, the Eligible Owner
and Defendant must complete the steps required
by Subsection G.1 and the claim applica
tion pursuant to Section XIII.


S.
“
Eligible Owner Non-Operable Restitution
” means the monetary compensation
that Defendant will pay to Eligible Owners
under the Settlement Program whose vehicle is
Operable as of the earlier of the date set by
the Court for consumers to opt out of the Class
Action or the Effective Date, but which ceases
to be Operable before the vehicle can be
surrendered for a Buyback or receive an Appr
oved Emissions Modification, specified in the
second column of Attachment 1A.

pkhoury said:

That's a no brainer - you keep driving it. With that setup, how could you not know what to do?





Ha, the irony being I bought my Golf in Austin, but it has rust issues (as it was imported by the PO from Quebec).




That was my original milestone. Now it's 450K. By this time next year, I'll be over 200K for sure.




I'll be honest - I love driving the Mk6, but I love driving my Mk4 even more. The only thing I like better on the Mk6 is the legroom. PD or ALH, you can't go wrong.

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It's depressing what rust does to vehicles up here in the salt belt. I always notice just how much better the older vehicles are in the southwest. 450k sounds like an ambitious goal. Might be hard if you're driving the golf a lot.

Does that also mean that if the car is totaled we're still covered?

ATR said:

Does that also mean that if the car is totaled we're still covered?

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Sort of. It means you'd get something, just not the full buyback amount.

turbobrick240 said:

Sort of. It means you'd get something, just not the full buyback amount.

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That's about what I figured.

turbobrick240 said:

^I don't think you have anything to worry about. In all likelihood the car would be destroyed. Even if not, they wouldn't be coming after you. The language I saw said the car had to be operable. Nothing about it being street legal. I don't think there are enough deleted tdi's to concern VW anyhow.

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I agree, VW isn't going to care about a deleted car at all. They just want to get the car off the road, crushed, and get this whole ordeal over with. They have enough things to deal with at this point lol

I think they have to account for the ECUs and catalysts. So, if you have the stock parts, toss them in the trunk. Then remove the aftermarket exhaust so you can sell it, then drive the loud car to the dealer to dump it off. The car is complete and driveable, just not fully assembled.

Stealth TDI said:

I think they have to account for the ECUs and catalysts. So, if you have the stock parts, toss them in the trunk. Then remove the aftermarket exhaust so you can sell it, then drive the loud car to the dealer to dump it off. The car is complete and driveable, just not fully assembled.

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Where did you see that they need the ECU and catalyst?

It wasn't explicit. I'm speculating based on:

7.2.2. Limitation on Scrapping of Vehicles. Returned Eligible Vehicles and 2.0 Liter
Subject Vehicles may be salvaged for parts, and such parts may be sold in the United States or exported, provided, however, that in no event may the ECU, diesel oxidation catalyst, or diesel particulate filter be salvaged, resold, or exported.

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It would seem that the only way to prevent the salvage, resale, or exportation of the ECU, catalyst, or DPF is to ensure that they are collected when the vehicle is turned-in.

Again, that's speculation on my part.

Scott

Good catch.. but yeah, speculation. Could be taken a couple directions by VW.. just a hard rule that they can't resell those parts once they posses the car.. or the more extreme example of "we must have them in possession to know they haven't been sold"

guess we'll find out. Unless I get info otherwise, I plan to turn mine in as it sits with the turbo/rawtek/malone.

Probably a good idea on a car that burns 5 qts. between changes.

If they offer me enough for the buyback, I'll throw the stock exhaust/DPF back on and sell/hang on to the aftermarket parts.

I will have to be forced to turn over my car. At this point, I have actively reduced all of the trouble spots the car has as far as reliability and a buy back really only means another car payment for me to replace. Unless all of these fixes and buybacks are required before registering the vehicle, I will keep it until they pry it off of me. I can't believe I finally found a car that doesn't strand me or even have any real problems for 170K plus miles only to have the government put that jeopardy. As an engineer, I applaud the fact that they figured out how to game the testing system, and hold the testing bodies responsible for not researching the ways around the testing.

Slurry Pumper said:

I will have to be forced to turn over my car. At this point, I have actively reduced all of the trouble spots the car has as far as reliability and a buy back really only means another car payment for me to replace. Unless all of these fixes and buybacks are required before registering the vehicle, I will keep it until they pry it off of me. I can't believe I finally found a car that doesn't strand me or even have any real problems for 170K plus miles only to have the government put that jeopardy. As an engineer, I applaud the fact that they figured out how to game the testing system, and hold the testing bodies responsible for not researching the ways around the testing.

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I was kind of wondering about that myself... an article I ready basically said if they can't fix the cars at the end of the deadline (2019) they will have to disable them. I mean, are they really going to come take our cars away in 3yr after they can't fix them? How are we compensated for that?? This has me thinking buy back and just getting into another new TDI.

Here is what it says BUT if you have 5min, read the whole thing (link below), it's short and sweet.

"And that's the rub. As the agreement notes in several places, such modifications haven't yet been developed and approved—and there's no guarantee that they ever will be.

And if modifications can't be developed for some or all of the various sets of engines and emissions systems, the cars using them must be disabled."

Reference article here >>>> http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1104747_what-will-vw-do-with-400000-dirty-diesel-cars-it-buys-back

My take on that article is there is about to be a glut of cheap, used tdi parts on the market. Sweet!

turbobrick240 said:

My take on that article is there is about to be a glut of cheap, used tdi parts on the market. Sweet!

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Ha, yeah, minus ECU's but this whole end game of them somehow "disabling" them if no fix seems to make keeping a HUGE gamble. I do love my car, it's super reliable, 20k OCI, never let me down but I don't want to get screwed over by VW in the end because I refused to bite on the pretty decent incentives to "help them out" by giving up my dirty dirty evil VW TDI.

I could see them being like, 3yr down the road, "well, here is $100 for your car, we'll take the keys, title now".

No way. I think they'd have to give at least full purchase price to seize the cars. It might not be legal even then.

Are you sure they aren't referring to disabling the cars VW buys back?

If a fix is approved there shouldn't be anything keeping them from fixing and selling on the used market right?

/delete

turbobrick240 said:

My take on that article is there is about to be a glut of cheap, used tdi parts on the market. Sweet!

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Maybe I'll get lucky and happen to find a used, working 6MT. The DSG is fun, but whenever the clutch packs go out, I'd like to swap to a 6MT. Yup, even in bumper to bumper traffic, I'll still take the standard.

Mine is going for sure. I don't need the fuel economy anymore an am eyeballing an MK7 GTI

It's too early for me to decide... unfortunately my wife drives it 100+ miles 5 times a week and that is going to start hitting us if we do the buyback... might try to crunch some numbers and possibly have her drive the e46 or mx5 some to help keep us in our current bracket... sucks... I was hoping we could "lock in" to a given mileage as of sept 2015 and then just drive the out of it for a couple years or so, stacking on the miles, and then get the same buyback... Time for math... lol

bloc said:

Are you sure they aren't referring to disabling the cars VW buys back?

If a fix is approved there shouldn't be anything keeping them from fixing and selling on the used market right?

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hopefully... It seems like if they were able to fix and resale that would be a much smaller hit than crushing them all...

pkhoury said:

Maybe I'll get lucky and happen to find a used, working 6MT. The DSG is fun, but whenever the clutch packs go out, I'd like to swap to a 6MT. Yup, even in bumper to bumper traffic, I'll still take the standard.

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Manual required here too... luckily I live in the sticks, but drove several of our manuals a lot in DC, and other big cities, when my wife was routinely seeing specialists for Lyme and other issues. I actually prefer having something to do (other than drooling on the steering wheel of a Prius while moving 15 feet at a time).

Mrrogers1 said:

Ha, yeah, minus ECU's but this whole end game of them somehow "disabling" them if no fix seems to make keeping a HUGE gamble. I do love my car, it's super reliable, 20k OCI, never let me down but I don't want to get screwed over by VW in the end because I refused to bite on the pretty decent incentives to "help them out" by giving up my dirty dirty evil VW TDI.
I could see them being like, 3yr down the road, "well, here is $100 for your car, we'll take the keys, title now".

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Well— in the first place, it wouldn't be VW demanding this, it would be the EPA / CARB......
.....but setting that question aside, I understand that the settlement specifically requires that emissions testing states that participate in the settlement (and CA has already signed off on this) will not refuse to register cars that do not meet their emissions requirements. (This of course refers to the car's "normal" emissions output, presumably the car would still have to pass the state's periodic tests to ensure that emissions are within spec.) This means that as long as your car will pass the state's emission testing -high NOx or not- it can be re-registered and driven in that state until it falls apart.

Rico567 said:

Well— in the first place, it wouldn't be VW demanding this, it would be the EPA / CARB......
.....but setting that question aside, I understand that the settlement specifically requires that emissions testing states that participate in the settlement (and CA has already signed off on this) will not refuse to register cars that do not meet their emissions requirements. (This of course refers to the car's "normal" emissions output, presumably the car would still have to pass the state's periodic tests to ensure that emissions are within spec.) This means that as long as your car will pass the state's emission testing -high NOx or not- it can be re-registered and driven in that state until it falls apart.

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Thanks for this. If they all agreed to register even if the cars can't meeting their requirements, I should have nothing to worry about. We have no testing here so fixing and getting paid seems like a smarter decision. Just hope the EPA allows VW's fixes.