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TDI 101 Got a simple/basic TDI question? Are you a newbie (new to the forums). Feel free to post your question here.

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Old November 1st, 2010, 10:36   #1
richard hamilton
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Default timing belt breaking data?

I apologize if this is already on the forum, but I can't find it. I am just curious if there is a thread for actual data on timing belts breaking. What mileages (and other information) are belts actually breaking?
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Old November 1st, 2010, 10:44   #2
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What motor? And no, not really. It's exceedingly rare for it to happen early. Often its the result of something else breaking first.
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Old November 1st, 2010, 10:49   #3
jettawreck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richard hamilton View Post
I apologize if this is already on the forum, but I can't find it. I am just curious if there is a thread for actual data on timing belts breaking. What mileages (and other information) are belts actually breaking?
With a bit of research(ing) you will most likely prove to yourself that the TB itself is usually not the first component in the system to fail (break, shred, etc). Often one of the rollers, the tensioner, or waterpump are first to give out, which destroys the belt. This is why its so important to change all the components in the TB path, unless you like to gamble.

The '03 that I bought (broken TB, torn all apart in boxes) was driven to 165,005 miles (IIRC) on the original TB/components. The tensioner looked suspect to me, but prior owner took it somewhere that tore it apart and left all the parts boxed. The TB indeed broke, but the tensioner gave out and let the belt go slack, stripped off a bunch of teeth, then got caught in something and snapped. Nothing that spins goes forever.
Change it all at the scheduled interval and you will be fine. Go longer and maybe/maybe not.
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Old November 1st, 2010, 11:04   #4
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I can only assume that the reason you are asking this is because you either already are (or want to) go over the recommended interval. This is playing russian roulette with your engine. There is no way to know when the belt (or any of the related components) will fail. It could happen 50000 miles after the interval, or 500.

Unless you like the idea of having to spend thousands to fix your engine, it would be best to have it done right and on-time.
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Old November 1st, 2010, 11:25   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jettawreck View Post
165,005 miles
Aha! Proof that you can drive to 165,004 miles before replaceing it!

Realistically VW looked at the data and factored in some cushion so that they weren't failing under the recomended interval. The longer you go the odds of it failing get higher and higher. The odds of it failing at 80k or whatever they recomend are so low that they said it was statistically an improbablility.

The risk is yours and the car is yours and it's your money. Drive it till it breaks and let us know how long NOT to go.

Last edited by Rattler05.5; November 1st, 2010 at 11:28.
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Old November 1st, 2010, 11:43   #6
richard hamilton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDICADDGUY View Post
I can only assume that the reason you are asking this is because you either already are (or want to) go over the recommended interval. This is playing russian roulette with your engine. There is no way to know when the belt (or any of the related components) will fail. It could happen 50000 miles after the interval, or 500.

Unless you like the idea of having to spend thousands to fix your engine, it would be best to have it done right and on-time.
My 2004 passat tdi has about 80,000 miles now, and of course the dealer wants me to do the timing belt now. The book says 100,000, so that's why I am asking.
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Old November 1st, 2010, 11:55   #7
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I don't think you will find the data you're looking for. You may know VW reduced the recommendation from 100k to 80k on your car not that long ago.

Given your join date, I assume you know about the balance shaft module issue. If not, please educate yourself (B5 forum) prior to having the timing belt work done since there are cost savings to performing several repair/maintenance issues at the timing belt change interval. Good luck.
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Last edited by Tom_B; November 1st, 2010 at 11:59.
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Old November 1st, 2010, 12:04   #8
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Someone I knew drove 130,000 miles on their 00 Beetle's 60k belt. It sheered of 19 teeth.

They had just gotten the car, and according to the seller the belt had been done at 100k

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Old November 1st, 2010, 12:05   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonTDI View Post
It's exceedingly rare for it to happen early.
Absolutely. In fact the only one that comes to mind is this one: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=253995
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Old November 1st, 2010, 12:30   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_B View Post
You may know VW reduced the recommendation from 100k to 80k on your car not that long ago.
Does this hold true for an '06 Jetta PD? My owners manual specifies 100k miles as the interval. I have not received any smail or email from VW or the dealer stateing it has been lowered to 80k miles.
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Old November 1st, 2010, 13:18   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richard hamilton View Post
My 2004 passat tdi has about 80,000 miles now, and of course the dealer wants me to do the timing belt now. The book says 100,000, so that's why I am asking.
You should consider these folks before the dealer:

Colorado

Steve Carroll - username SCarroll
Aurora, Co

Frey's Foreign Car Service
2550 49th St
Boulder, CO 80301
(303) 440-0725

European Performance Specialist
406 S. Sierra Madre St
Colorado Springs, CO 80903
(719) 475-1046, Loren

aNut
Denver
http://www.dieselland.net/

Hardey's Motorwerks
10315 South Progress Way Unit 2
Parker CO, 80134-4020
Phone: 303.840.7664
http://www.hardeysmotorwerks.com

Cattle Creek V Dubs
5405 County Road 154, Unit L
Glenwood Springs, CO 81601-8626
Phone: (866) 434-6625
www.cattlecreek-vdubs.com
http://forums.tdiclub.com/member.php?u=77903
German Motorsports
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http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.p...postcount=1007
Metrick Methodz
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Fort Collins, CO 80524 - 6459
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Last edited by volmaniac; November 1st, 2010 at 13:21.
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Old November 1st, 2010, 13:21   #12
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Yes, but honestly all my clients are still going 100K without issue.
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Old November 1st, 2010, 13:30   #13
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You needn't worry about the belt on the Passat, it is the CHAIN you need be concerned with. And no, your dealer won't have a clue.
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Old November 1st, 2010, 13:32   #14
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100K absolutely on the PD engine (2006 for you newbies).

Its a very good design and stronger than a chain. As mentioned, the weak link is the water pump. As long as you replace the water pump and rollers at 100K along with the G12 coolant (70/30 ratio) you will NEVER have a failure of the belt.

Also, make sure all the related hardware is replaced since VW uses coated TTY bolts (single use).
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Old November 1st, 2010, 15:14   #15
n1das
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drivbiwire View Post
100K absolutely on the PD engine (2006 for you newbies).

Its a very good design and stronger than a chain. As mentioned, the weak link is the water pump. As long as you replace the water pump and rollers at 100K along with the G12 coolant (70/30 ratio) you will NEVER have a failure of the belt.

Also, make sure all the related hardware is replaced since VW uses coated TTY bolts (single use).
Mine failed last summer at 76k miles and gave no warning whatsoever. This was in my 05 PD JWagen (BEW PD engine).

At first glance, the TB didn't look broken:


Upon closer inspection, you can see what failed:


Close look at the carnage:



I only put average miles on this car compared to my logging ~ 1k mile/week in my 02 Golf. After 4 years I suspect I was bumping up against the time limit for that belt. Back in 2005, the future of TDIs in the USA was up in the air and I hedged my bet on future availability by grabbing the 05 PD JWagen while I could in case there were no more new TDIs after 2006. I kept this car in pristine showroom condition and also didn't drive it in the winter. Atrophe from non-use may have factored into the belt failure as well as age.

I could have fixed the failure for a lot less than dropping a new engine in there but I wanted to do previously planned performance upgrades while everything was apart. Hardware was bone stock at the time and the clutch was beginning to slip with RC2 tuning. It was known upfront that a clutch upgrade would be needed and it was planned for. A turbo upgrade was also planned for it to solve a boost creep issue with the stock (KP39) turbo and tuning. Given the rest of the car was in like new condition, I decided to make it all new again. Chris Hill (TDIclub mrchill) did the engine swap and upgrade work. The whole job was expensive but the car is SOOOO much better than new now.

My engine swap and upgrade thread:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread...&highlight=atd
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Last edited by n1das; November 1st, 2010 at 15:37. Reason: D'Oh!
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