2nd timing belt, cam, or no cam?

I am about to do the second timing belt on my car. The first was at 120K by the original owner right before I bough it. Now I have 220K and will be doing the second one in 2 weeks. The car is not modded, or will be in the future. Al stock and pretty well cared for.

For some time I have has a slight "tick" at idle. I have eliminated the serp belt and drive train of serp belt, and fuel pump. It has been like this since I bought it, and runs and idles great, but only a slight tick at idle. It has never gotten worse. I have used a mechanics stethoscope and it does appear to come from the head area, but hard to tell for sure. It is defiantly not as buttery smooth ideling as others I have driven.

The only thing I can think of is cam or lifters possibly. I don't mind doing the extra work to replace the cam and lifters now, but don't want to embark on extra work if not needed. Any other suggestions on replacing the cam now? If I did replace it now, can I reuse the cam gear? Anything else to think of here?
Thanks!

I would suspect one of the cam followers/lifters. $80 for a set. Maybe time to have the injectors checked also.


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Just helped my friend do his timing belt, he's at 220k miles. He had several cam followers that were starting to dish out. Cheap insurance, I'd change the cam followers and inspect the cam. I've seen a handful that will start to pit at the tips of the lobes.
If you do replace them, be sure to pre lube them liberally, and follow break in procedure.

Nero, did it occur to either of you that the cam lobes are no longer pristine?
To only replace the lifters may result in accelerated wearing of the cam and lifters.
I'm pretty sure the recommended practice is to replace both at the same time.

Yep -- replace both together (cam and lifters)

Thanks all for your comments. It seems that either do both, or don't touch both. I am inclined to do both now.

Any tips on loosing, tightening, pre lubing, etc? Can the cam sprocket be reused, or should I replace that as well?
Thanks again!

What you're calling the 2nd belt is actually the car's 3rd.

Some recommend replacing the sprocket:
https://www.idparts.com/camshaft-sprocket-a4-alh-p-1124.html
...if yours is an ALH motor, anyway.
A tip: replace the coolant temp sensor and thermostat during the
belt change since you loose some coolant with the belt change anyway.

I've also heard that about the cam pulley. But don't get me wrong, I'm an advocate for replacing the cam with the lifters. Just saying, if you're tight on cash, inspection will say a lot. If it's bad, then you're a little SOL if you were trying to be cheap.

Sort of depends on what your intentions on keeping the car is perhaps. Remember that even if the lifters/followers and cam look acceptable now the TB interval is 80-100k miles. How will the lifters look before the end of that interval? Of course you can service those items at any time but it's so much easier to do it during the TB service.
In a conversation with guru Franko6 years ago he mentioned that ALH lifters are usually ready for replacement around the 250k mile mark.

It's one of those "you spend money on something unnecessary and it's not great" deals, but if you lose the bet and a lifter FAILS you're NOT going to like it as the consequence is usually a head replacement (much more money.)

make sure you dont buy the crap ones. i remember something about how ID parts and other vendors have knock off crap that will kill your engine. Frank06 knows about this best.
followers dont necessarily have to go with a new cam, there is a procedure to DIY a home brew cam polishing but its nearly impossible to do without some good tools and lots of time. I saw it a few times but i dont recommend it for a long term engine.

follow up cam Q's

Thanks all for your input thus far. I have decided to go for the cam and lifters with the mileage, and I'll be in there anyway. I already have the high mileage timing belt kit from ID parts, and have had great success with their parts so far. A couple more follow up things to bounce off you all

Cam sprocket: This has never been removed to my knowledge. Replace it or reuse? I am leaning to replace.

Cam bearing nuts, replace, or reuse?

Cam seal, spring or PTFE?

Crankshaft seal: it doesn't appear to be leaking now, should I replace it while I am down there?

Thanks again!

To do the timing belt the cam gear must be loosened. So however many times the belt has been done its been off at least that many times.
I've always reused the cam bolts no issues.
Cam seal, I've used both, good results with both.
Crank seal, dealers choice.

dont buy them from ID parts. Order them from frank06 or kerma, no seriously, dont cheap out here and FWIW i would put in a colt stage 3 into it for the extra few $$
Kerma will regrind your OEM cam to a perfect one regardless or stage and the cost is almost the same. but you save a few extra $ by having them regrind it, also the OEM cams are the BEST ones to regrind vs the aftermarket ones as the steel is MUCH better and casting too!.
Call up chris at Kerma TDI and talk to him about it.
It works because the lobe is shorter due to the grind but the inner radius is also taken down some extra and the lifter (being hydraulic) takes up the difference and no shims are needed.
this is a upgrade you can do with no tune necessary and the car will run very well, but a tune is always best. Worth the effort IMO Buy once cry once!

I can't speak to where id is getting their cams from, but I can say that cheap cams tend to be just that- cheap. And cam failure is rarely fun. While not TDI, I've seen plenty of failed aftermarket cheap cams in Cat engines- bad metallurgy, poor heat treat, poor surface finish, lack of true... the issues run the gamut.
I do know that Frank does a very good job and his cams are perfectly ok to go in stock engines.
Just a thought.

I'd do just the lifters for your tick
cams on ALH motors are very rarely bad

one of mine spent a lot of miles in very cheap oil and has some pitting on TDC of the lobes, but since using synthetic it has not gotten any worse