calling on all JSW gurus. clutch pedal setting

JELLOWSUBMARINE · Jun 18, 2019

Does anyone have a late extra pull on the clutch pedal swing/ release? Clutch itself feels like new condition, no overgrip or slip.

I seem to remember reading something about an adjustable pedal spring?

JELLOWSUBMARINE · Jun 22, 2019

Any one experiace this?

ss_mini14 · Jun 22, 2019

I see a spring near the top of the pedal inside the mounting bracket it doesn't look like it is adjustable from this drawing. What do you mean by "extra pull"?

JELLOWSUBMARINE · Jun 22, 2019

ss_mini14 said:
I see a spring near the top of the pedal inside the mounting bracket it doesn't look like it is adjustable from this drawing. What do you mean by "extra pull"?

Best way to describe it is when the wife drives the car she regularly stalls 1st gear if she isn't focused. (She is an experienced 3 pedal). The pedal swing has an even & smooth swing until it reaches the top of the travel where it seems to pull to return harder, not a linear feel spring(?)pull?

Just thought this may be an issue/feel of these cars? She may have to go back to 3 pedal school?

ss_mini14 · Jun 22, 2019

Ok, I see. Both cars I've owned have been DSG so I don't know if it's an issue for these cars. But is should be linear. I'd check the pivot pin for the pedal for wear. There is also a block that goes between the pedal and the master cylinder push rod, and the nub on the top of the pedal that contacts the spring. These seem to be high wear areas on the pedal. I've had similar issues with freightliners with plastic master cylinders that had grit and grime built up on them causing the pedal to hang. Sorry its not an expert opinion, but hopefully it'll help

IXLR8 · Jun 22, 2019

JELLOWSUBMARINE said:
Best way to describe it is when the wife drives the car she regularly stalls 1st gear if she isn't focused. (She is an experienced 3 pedal). The pedal swing has an even & smooth swing until it reaches the top of the travel where it seems to pull to return harder, not a linear feel spring(?)pull?
Just thought this may be an issue/feel of these cars? She may have to go back to 3 pedal school?

Have you turned off the hill hold "feature"? I have been driving 3 pedal cars for 50 years and due the HH "feature" I stall the car more often than I care to admit unless I am careful to wait for the HH to release. I turned it off on my Passat and as soon as I get some time... I am going to turn it off in my Jetta.

JELLOWSUBMARINE · Jun 22, 2019

ss_mini14 said:
Ok, I see. Both cars I've owned have been DSG so I don't know if it's an issue for these cars. But is should be linear. I'd check the pivot pin for the pedal for wear. There is also a block that goes between the pedal and the master cylinder push rod, and the nub on the top of the pedal that contacts the spring. These seem to be high wear areas on the pedal. I've had similar issues with freightliners with plastic master cylinders that had grit and grime built up on them causing the pedal to hang. Sorry its not an expert opinion, but hopefully it'll help

Ill do that soon,thx

IXLR8 said:
Have you turned off the hill hold "feature"? I have been driving 3 pedal cars for 50 years and due the HH "feature" I stall the car more often than I care to admit unless I am careful to wait for the HH to release. I turned it off on my Passat and as soon as I get some time... I am going to turn it off in my Jetta.

O.k., this may be bone head here but I always thought the hill assist was on non manual? Ive never had hill assist before so I obviously need schooled. I do feel like Im in drivers ed. again with the wife. Its either a stall or burn out off a start. Ha

virtualpj · Jun 22, 2019

JELLOWSUBMARINE said:
O.k., this may be bone head here but I always thought the hill assist was on non manual? Ive never had hill assist before so I obviously need schooled. I do feel like Im in drivers ed. again with the wife. Its either a stall or burn out off a start. Ha

There’s definitely Hill Assist on the 6-speed. My 2014 has it. Took quite a bit of getting used to.

IXLR8 · Jun 22, 2019

JELLOWSUBMARINE said:
O.k., this may be bone head here but I always thought the hill assist was on non manual? Ive never had hill assist before so I obviously need schooled. I do feel like Im in drivers ed. again with the wife. Its either a stall or burn out off a start. Ha

Nope, manual VW's have the hill hold feature as well. My '12 6sp Passat had it, as does my '14 6sp Jetta. If you have access to a VCDS you can set the level of hold, or turn it off. Hill Hold can take up to 2 seconds to release the brakes. Next time you come to a stop on an uphill incline, steep enough so the car will roll backwards if brakes are not applied. With no cars behind you, after you stop, take your foot off the brake and see how long it takes for the car to start rolling backwards. If it rolls immediately, then you don't have hill hold. If the car sits there for a second or two before it starts to roll, you have hill hold active.

JSWTDI09 · Jun 22, 2019

JELLOWSUBMARINE said:
Best way to describe it is when the wife drives the car she regularly stalls 1st gear if she isn't focused. (She is an experienced 3 pedal). The pedal swing has an even & smooth swing until it reaches the top of the travel where it seems to pull to return harder, not a linear feel spring(?)pull?

Just thought this may be an issue/feel of these cars? She may have to go back to 3 pedal school?

I'm not sure that your (her) problem is with the smoothness of the pedal's swing. I had owned nothing but 3 pedal cars for over 40 years when I bought my JSW and I had problems with stalling it at first. There is a whole thread here somewhere about this issue. The problem is the way the ECU works. It absolutely refuses to let you "lug" the engine. If (when) rpms drop below about 750 rpm (even briefly) the ECU just shuts off the engine - no warning and no way to save it. With most cars you can save an "almost stall" - however, not with common rail TDI engines. Therefore, they are easy to stall.

Don't worry, you will adapt to it with time and practice. I am afraid that the stalling issue is usually "the nature of the beast". You just have to learn to live with it and adapt your foot control slightly to give it just a little more go pedal as the clutch reaches it's engagement point.

Have Fun!

Don

Graham Line · Jun 23, 2019

Only time I have trouble with the hill holder is when I expect my other car to have one, which it does not.
Just have to learn to move off briskly and not let the revs drop. Don't need to smoke the tires.

Zabel51 · Jun 24, 2019

I just installed the Clutch Pedal Upgrade Kit - 6 Speed from ECS. Not inexpensive, but well designed and the install video is easy to follow. it definitely improves clutch feel. The stock feel for me is "positional" and with the ECS kit installed the there is immediate feel and fine control. It is especially appreciated when the A/C is on and the engine is easier to stall.
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-ecs-parts/clutch-pedal-upgrade-kit-6-speed/018733ecs01kt/

JELLOWSUBMARINE · Jun 24, 2019

virtualpj said:
There’s definitely Hill Assist on the 6-speed. My 2014 has it. Took quite a bit of getting used to.

Thanks all, 1st line of attack may be to shorten hold time or even shut off as there isnt a inclne for miles.

Zabel51 said:
I just installed the Clutch Pedal Upgrade Kit - 6 Speed from ECS. Not inexpensive, but well designed and the install video is easy to follow. it definitely improves clutch feel. The stock feel for me is "positional" and with the ECS kit installed the there is immediate feel and fine control. It is especially appreciated when the A/C is on and the engine is easier to stall.
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-ecs-parts/clutch-pedal-upgrade-kit-6-speed/018733ecs01kt/

Ill definately look into this. Anyone else instaall one? Input?

Graham Line · Jun 25, 2019

If there isn't an incline for miles, the Hill Assist would not come into operation. You have something else going on.

JELLOWSUBMARINE · Jun 25, 2019

JSWTDI09 said:
I'm not sure that your (her) problem is with the smoothness of the pedal's swing. I had owned nothing but 3 pedal cars for over 40 years when I bought my JSW and I had problems with stalling it at first. There is a whole thread here somewhere about this issue. The problem is the way the ECU works. It absolutely refuses to let you "lug" the engine. If (when) rpms drop below about 750 rpm (even briefly) the ECU just shuts off the engine - no warning and no way to save it. With most cars you can save an "almost stall" - however, not with common rail TDI engines. Therefore, they are easy to stall.

Don't worry, you will adapt to it with time and practice. I am afraid that the stalling issue is usually "the nature of the beast". You just have to learn to live with it and adapt your foot control slightly to give it just a little more go pedal as the clutch reaches it's engagement point.

Have Fun!

Don

Graham Line said:
If there isn't an incline for miles, the Hill Assist would not come into operation. You have something else going on.

FWIW, Im not writing this 2nd person. I dont drive the car, a motorcycle acccident put me in the passenger, just witnessing the difficulties the wife has using the JSW 6m.

JSWTDI09... Are you suggesting the feel on the clutch with the ecm rpm parameters are difficult to adjust to? Thats what it seems to me just by watching her drive/engage 1 st gear. She has driven various clutch through the years, our 83 VW 1.6 idii diesel p/u 5 speed for example.

Gramline could the hill hold be culprit if somehow over/engaging on flatland?

ewdysar · Jun 25, 2019

If you think that your issue is more about the pedal travel/throw, then an adjustable clutch pedal stop could help. ECS has two versions, https://www.ecstuning.com/b-burger-motorsports-parts/adjustable-clutch-stop/jbclutch~bum/ and https://www.ecstuning.com/b-ecs-parts/adjustable-clutch-pedal-stop/018733ecs01~a/
These look like cheap, quick, and easy upgrades. I’m going to start paying attention to how I’m operating the clutch to see if it might be a nice add for me.

JELLOWSUBMARINE · Jun 25, 2019

Zabel51 said:
I just installed the Clutch Pedal Upgrade Kit - 6 Speed from ECS. Not inexpensive, but well designed and the install video is easy to follow. it definitely improves clutch feel. The stock feel for me is "positional" and with the ECS kit installed the there is immediate feel and fine control. It is especially appreciated when the A/C is on and the engine is easier to stall.
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-ecs-parts/clutch-pedal-upgrade-kit-6-speed/018733ecs01kt/

Very inteeresting

ewdysar · Jun 25, 2019

and yes, with 40+ years of three pedal experience, I did stall the car a few times when it was new. Now it’s maybe once a year, when I’m not paying attention. So the fix might also just be stick time (in pilot terms). Don’s comment about not being able to save an “almost stall” seems right on point, my stalls feel a lot like that.

JSWTDI09 · Jun 25, 2019

JELLOWSUBMARINE said:
JSWTDI09... Are you suggesting the feel on the clutch with the ecm rpm parameters are difficult to adjust to? Thats what it seems to me just by watching her drive/engage 1 st gear.

That was pretty much my experience. It's not really difficult to adjust to, it just takes some time to adapt. Much of it is the ECU, for sure. However, my JSW was also my first hydraulic clutch and drive by wire throttle. I do not know how much of a difference this makes. What I do know is that you have to adjust your pedal timing a bit to make sure that the rpms do not drop too low as the clutch engages. Practice makes perfect (or at least better).

Have Fun!

Don

JELLOWSUBMARINE · Jun 25, 2019

Thanks all for the thorough input. Kind of what I thought. Ill have to become that nagging backseat driver, oh wait I already am...

That clutch pedal upgrade kit may just be the differance in her case.

calling on all JSW gurus. clutch pedal setting

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