81 Rabbit D

81rabbitD

New member
Joined
Jan 4, 2008
Location
Kansas
TDI
Rabbit D 1.6 NA
Well first of all sorry if I am posting this in the wrong section. Ok now that I have that out of the way I would like to ask a few questions and see what you guys think. I purched an 81 Rabbit D with the 1.6 NA in it and was wondering what all you guys think about those motors. Ive had it for a while not but have not been able to drive it much. I just got done a lot of the maitenance for it such as water pump, t-belt and had the head rebuilt as well as a new HG. Anyways let me know what to look out for on these guys. Thanks a bunch Dale.
 

lupin..the..3rd

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2004
Location
USA
TDI
Passat B4 1996
Great reliable car with very good MPG's. Hope you're not in a hurry though, 52 hp isn't a lot! ;)
 

ezshift5

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2003
Location
West Coast
TDI
2013 JSW TDI (Enroute BB).......2017 Jetta 1.4 turbo 5M ....................
lupin..the..3rd said:
Great reliable car with very good MPG's. Hope you're not in a hurry though, 52 hp isn't a lot! ;)[/QUOTE
..........a 1.6 liter NA diesel with 293k (original rings, valves and bearings) pushes my '82 VW pickup. Concur 52 hp ain't a lot;OTOH 55 mpg Sacramento to Brookings (vacation time: moving slow and easy) IS a lot.
best wishes on your 1.6 adventure........
ez....
 

dieseldorf

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 11, 2000
Location
MA
TDI
ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
lupin..the..3rd said:
Great reliable car with very good MPG's. Hope you're not in a hurry though, 52 hp isn't a lot! ;)
+1.

It can be a great machine fully capable of achieving high mileage. Stay ahead of the basic maintenance stuff and you may find it to be a reliable car.

Welcome aboard, Dale!
 

81rabbitD

New member
Joined
Jan 4, 2008
Location
Kansas
TDI
Rabbit D 1.6 NA
Awsome. Yea so far I love the thing. I would maybe later down the road look into sticking a turbo on there. How well do the internals of these engines far to a little bit of boost? Thanks again guys. Dale
 

DIESEL DAZZLER

Veteran Member
Joined
May 20, 2001
Location
Dorchester
TDI
81VW TDI PU,94 GOLF TDI,97 PASSAT TDI,03 ,06 JETTA TDI's,KABOTA DIESEL LAWNMOWER
Turbo

You can install a turbo from an AAZ engine and the intake manifold too.This engine has no piston coolers.This is no problem as long as you dont beat on it.You could also add the oil cooler from a AAZ.Keep the boost down below 10 psi.This engine has smaller head bolts than the AAZ.
81rabbitD said:
Awsome. Yea so far I love the thing. I would maybe later down the road look into sticking a turbo on there. How well do the internals of these engines far to a little bit of boost? Thanks again guys. Dale
 

81rabbitD

New member
Joined
Jan 4, 2008
Location
Kansas
TDI
Rabbit D 1.6 NA
DIESEL DAZZLER said:
You can install a turbo from an AAZ engine and the intake manifold too.This engine has no piston coolers.This is no problem as long as you dont beat on it.You could also add the oil cooler from a AAZ.Keep the boost down below 10 psi.This engine has smaller head bolts than the AAZ.
I see so what exactly is the AAZ engine? The only reason why I am a bit interested in installing a turbo is cause I live in Kansas and do a bit of driving. Well in Kansas we get some decent wind speeds and that takes it toll on the poor thing.... :)
 

DIESEL DAZZLER

Veteran Member
Joined
May 20, 2001
Location
Dorchester
TDI
81VW TDI PU,94 GOLF TDI,97 PASSAT TDI,03 ,06 JETTA TDI's,KABOTA DIESEL LAWNMOWER
Aaz

AAZ engines are found in pre TDI VW's ,Golf or Jetta.92 to 97.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
I drive a 52hp 1.6L NA every day in a heavier A2 car, and while it will not win any races, it will cruise easily at 75 MPH all day long...but the MPG will drop.

There are several different transmission gear ratios that VAG used with the ME engines over the years, some give better performance than others. My '91 never requires downshifting from 5th on hills on the highway, unless it is a HUGE mountain pass or something. But my one '81 Caddy that was a 4 speed would barely hold a hill in 4th, and often times needed 3rd to hold 50 MPH on hills! My '81 Caddy that was a 5 speed would also require a downshift to 4th gear. The final drive ratios in the later cars were a little lower and the gears tighter so they did not feel as pokey as the earlier cars despite being heavier.
 

81rabbitD

New member
Joined
Jan 4, 2008
Location
Kansas
TDI
Rabbit D 1.6 NA
I have the 4 speed in mine. Thanks a lot for the information guys this is amazing. Dale.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
81rabbitD said:
I have the 4 speed in mine. Thanks a lot for the information guys this is amazing. Dale.
If you could find an A2 diesel 5-speed you could convert yours easily. The best one to get would be an early A2 diesel since it would use the same huge-ass reverse light switch. I have a known-good one from an '86 Golf in my basement ;)

It would make the engine feel MUCH peppier.
 

Trev0rBr

Active member
Joined
Jan 21, 2006
Location
York, PA
TDI
1981 2 door diesel Jetta
the transmission doesn't have to be from a diesel either, as they weren't specific to either car, just make sure you get one from an earlier car. in the later mk2 years vw was putting in close ratio trannys to help the cars keep pace with newer cars. also don't get a transmission from a gt, gti, or gli
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Trev0rBr said:
the transmission doesn't have to be from a diesel either, as they weren't specific to either car, just make sure you get one from an earlier car. in the later mk2 years vw was putting in close ratio trannys to help the cars keep pace with newer cars. also don't get a transmission from a gt, gti, or gli
Huh? The diesel transmission gear ratios are WAY different than the gas cars. :confused: You put a 1981 1.7L gas Rabbit 5 speed in a 1981 1.6L diesel Rabbit and you won't be able to get out of your own way, you will never be able to use 5th gear, and your clutch will likely not last too long.
 

PDJetta

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 6, 2003
Location
Northern Virginia
TDI
'04 Jetta GLS TDI Pumpe Duce Platinum Grey w/ Leather
Yep, the gear ratios are lower (or the final drive is lower) on the IDI diesels over gas VWs of that era.

I did frequent an IDI diesel list in my younger days and the subject did come up, since A1 and A2 VW gas trannys are much more common than diesel ones. The concensus seemed to be that if you basically did mostly highway driving, you could get by using a gas tranny, but around town, it could be problematic.

--Nate
 

AndyBees

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2003
Location
Southeast Kentucky
TDI
Silver 2003 Jetta TDI, Silver 2000 Jetta TDI (sold), '84 Vanagon with '02 ALH engine
My 1977 - 1984 Bentley gives the following with no difference for gas or diesel engine.

Both 4-speed and 5-speed from 1977 to 1984 have 3.89 R&P. (Typing on a laptop sucks)

1st gear 3.45 - 1977 up to 1984 (All, both early 4-speed, late 4-speed and 5-speeds)
2nd gear 1.94 - 4-speeds 1977 to 1980 and 1981 and later Pick-up and all 5-speeds
2nd gear 1.75 - 4-speeds 1981 and later Pick-up
3rd gear 1.37 - 4-speed thru 1979
3rd gear 1.29 - 5-speeds, 1980 4-speeds and 1981 and later Pick-up 4-speeds
3rd gear 1.06 - 4-speeds '81 and later excluding Pick-up
4th gear .97 - 1977 through 1980 both 4 & 5-speeds
4th gear .91 - 5-speeds from 1981, 4-speeds '81 and later Pick-ups
4th gear .70 - 4-speeds '81 and later except Pick-up
5th gear .71 - 5-speed from 1981
5th gear .76 - 5-speed thru 1980
Reverse 3.17 all

I have been researching my Bentleys trying to determine RPMs vs Speed (MPH) in top gear for different applications, including tire size. I am primarily interested in determining the best RPM for my Vangon Conversion to a TDI.

Interestingly, unless my calculations are wrong, the 1977 - 1980 4-speed 1.5 Diesels were cranking over 3600 RPMs at about 65 MPH. And, amazingly they got about 47-49 mpg on the highway at that speed.

I installed a 1.6 in a car with one of the 1980 4-speeds. At 65 mph the engine sounded like it was maxed out. I had to upgrade to the correct tranny... actually found a 5-speed to install.

Just some interesting stuff on gear ratios... lots of spreadsheet data accumlated now.
 
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BigVWman

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Location
Apex, NC soon to be back in the mitten of doom!
TDI
A1 cabriolet tdi and 01 nb tdi and countless gassers!
Early transmissions there weren't the differentiation between gas and diesel only 4 and 5 speed they had a few different versions but not much difference. When the close ratios and such 83 and newer is when things got trickier. Do a search or two there are some charts illustrating gear ratios by trans code but i have found from personal exp most gas and diesel 81 and 82 had an ff code 5speed and i have had many for comparison purposes.
 

golden01

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2004
Location
Indianapolis
TDI
1981 VW Rabbit Truck
great thread

You have many outstanding comments on this thread from the vets. They have helped me over the years.

I have an 81 caddy at a local paint shop for the last six months. I get 40 mpg at 60 mph. 3.89 final with .71 fifth gear. Loud and hi revving at 70mph, fair on hills, not a superhighway car.

I bought a 1.9 NA diesel engine and a 1990's MK2 era tranny-rebuilt with a 3.67 final and .75 fifth gear. Once the vehicle gets painted next year, I will transfer this new combo, plus switch my fifth gears. In this manner, I will get the vehicle up to more modern speeds without overkilling the tranny and overpowering the ability to STOP the vehicle

Yes, I know I can get more juice out of the engine by putting a turbo/IC set up on it. But that would destroy the MK2 tranny. Now, a MK3 tranny with a 1.9 TD/IC set up would work, maybe too much power for this 1981 Caddy. Then, I think, one would want to change the entire braking system to stop the Beast at 110 miles per hour!

Have a good day.

golden 01:)

2000 Jetta TDI-RIP after roll over--Protected driver quite well!
2002 Jetta TDI-132K
1981 Caddy 1.6D 130k
2003 Jetta TDI wagon 61K replacement vehicle. Romantic RED!
1999 Toyota Avalon Back up car-152k. Two drivers going 125 miles a day. Have a back up!
Love dem diesels!
 

ezshift5

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2003
Location
West Coast
TDI
2013 JSW TDI (Enroute BB).......2017 Jetta 1.4 turbo 5M ....................
I have an 81 caddy at a local paint shop for the last six months.
....I'd like to do that; however paint shops out here on the left coast would get an arm and a leg to paint my '82 diesel pickup.....(and still ask for mo' $$)
...great invention (my all time best freeway numbers include one tank getting about 54 and change (at 55 MPH) enroute to Brookings, OR...........)
best, ez
 

golden01

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2004
Location
Indianapolis
TDI
1981 VW Rabbit Truck
six month paint job

The reason it sits at the paint shop is the sand and paint quote was quite low making it a low priority for the shop owner---he makes out better on crash and repair work; however, the shop does great work. Just have to wait, and wait and wait.....at least it is in the garage part of the shop now, rust removed and new metal welded in, just waiting to be sanded, primed and painted yellow and black!

I can not wait to put the new engine/tranny in it. I have antisway bars to put on the front end as well. Last will be a new headliner. Carpet and seats are original and in good condition.

later.

golden 01:rolleyes:
 
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Dodoma

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2004
TDI
2002 Jetta White
The 1.6 diesel block is great pumping 52 hp with non-hydrolic lifter head (where valve adjustment requires replacing shims) and 54hp on hydrolic one (requires no valve adjustment and from 1986 heads onwards).

I recently got a 1985 Jetta diesel with only 36,000 miles but with a bad engine and great original paint and body. The seller had removed the head and the block was cracked and did not want to spend any more (replacing an engine costs about $3,500 plus engine cost and there are few installer). I suspect that when installing, the head (with intake manifold attached) tilted or the head bolt was overtightned, resulting in a crack at the threads of the bolt facing the front passenger side. I removed the shortblock with trans attached. To do that, I jacked the car and placed the front tires on ramps and used engine holder bar (I bought that for $50 from an ebay seller). Removed the mounting bolts and lowered the engine to the floor by placing newspapers underneath as hanging chain length of the engine holding bar was altered. Once it reached the floor, I draged it out. Went to a junk yard and bought, as is (with no refund option), a core motor that when disassembling found to be cracked and no good and wasted $250. I was able to get a short block shell for 1985 from an e-bay seller for $130. I took it to a machine shop where it was checked for cracks, cleaned, measured, deglazed, line bored, etc, plus the crankshaft was balanced and polished with matching main and rod bearings (pistons were cleaned and connecting rods were balanced), all for $350. I primed and painted the block, installed the rings on the pistons, crank, new seals, etc. I had a problem with oil dip stick tube. I found that my 1985 was made in the transition model year, meaning it had some 1984 and 1985 parts. The dip stick tube for 1984 is short whereas one for 1985 is long and attaches to the injection pump, meaning the pump bracket is also different. Luckly, I was able to get a tube and bracket from a junk yard for about $80 (new tube is available at the dealer for about $90). I also noted that the head bolts required were 12 mm but the one that came with the original block were 11mm. I did not want to spend another $350 for a 12mm cylinder head. So using a round file, filed the cylinder head holes to accomodate the 12mm ones. I used Race Ware headbolts. I installed the pump, put new timing belt, and timed without using dial gauge (ensured that crank was at top dead center, cam was at right spot, and pump pin went thru correct hole). The engine runs very smooth with no smoke. After few miles, I noted a diesel leak at the back pump junction (facing right fender if you are driving the car). My research on this web site and VW Vortex noted that the cause was a dried O ring that happens due to change in the diesel fuel formulation. An e-bay seller had listed the O-ring size and I was able to locate a local seller of such ring. I got a viton O-ring for about $3 and installed it without removing the pump and that fixed the problem (rebuild would have involved removing the pump and costing atleast $150). The other problem is that there is a small oil leak between the mating surface of the transmission bellhousing and the engine. I suspect it is either the pan gasket or the crankshaft rear main oil seal or the seal carrier. I may have to remove the transmission again but do not feel like doing at present. Other than this, the car runs great. I also need to fix the door panels as the cloth/fabric are peeling due to age.

I did all the assembling including installing back myself with no helper. I am not a trained mechnic but learned by frequenting this web site, reading auto repairs manuals and of course by buying these diesels that exposed me to these problems. I always try not to spend much on these cars. I do this as hobby. And the 1.6 is a simple engine.
 
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VWScully

Veteran Member
Joined
May 17, 2004
Location
near Stratford ON
TDI
looking for one :/
I also have an 81 Rabbit Diesel as my Daily driver in Summer. I run it on Biodiesel and it is slow as hell, but gets me there in the end! :D
It's got about 220,000 km on it and runs great.

The nice part about these 1.6NA engines is that they're simple and easy to work on.
hth! :)
 

jck66

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 4, 2001
Location
Greenwich, CT, USA
TDI
12 Passat SE / 14 BMW 535d
AndyBees said:
Interestingly, unless my calculations are wrong, the 1977 - 1980 4-speed 1.5 Diesels were cranking over 3600 RPMs at about 65 MPH. And, amazingly they got about 47-49 mpg on the highway at that speed.
In addition, I always found it interesting that the TDI engine's redline was lower than the old 1.5 & 1.6 NA diesel's. IIRC the old diesel's redline was over 5000 rpm and my 1Z shows what, 4250 or something (going from memory)?
 
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