Should I Save Maureen?

OllieBrown

Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Location
Menomonie, WI
TDI
New Beetle, 2004, Cyber Green
I’ve worked hard keep Maureen going over the years: 2004 PD TDI New Beetle, Cyber Green, just rolled over 230k miles. I keep her supplied in good oil and timing belts, she gets the family where we need to go. Not that we haven’t had disagreements, an alternator pulley that I mistook for a bad PS pump, PS pump bolts that were too long and broke the accessory belt clean off! We soldiered on and got over our misunderstandings and she’s been a great car for 14 years!! The first and only car I ever bought new.

Last several weeks I’ve been chasing down a much bigger problem. We have a coolant leak, a fairly substantial one. We can still drive around town for short trips as long as we top it off but long trips are out of the question. She’s also consuming oil, something I expect an engine of this age to do, but it complicates things. I used to roll my sleeves up and solve problems myself, but life gets busy and I’ve been inclined to take it to mechanic’s lately. For the coolant leak we ended up going to the dealer and their prognosis was bleak! The repairs they suggested what costly enough they did not recommend undertaking them, that they exceeded the value of a The repairs they suggested were costly enough they did not recommend undertaking them, but they exceeded the value of the vehicle. I have a different impression of the value than they do, but this was not easy news to receive.

Here was their diagnosis:
  • The tandem fuel/vacuum pump is leaking diesel. It is leaking onto the coolant lines and this caused a line to fail.
  • This checks out as the coolant leak seems to be coming from right behind/below the tandem pump.
  • They also found that the EGR intercooler coolant lines have separated and would need to be replaced. We’ve already replaced the inter cooler once for an exhaust leak.
  • They wanted to replace all the coolant lines that are below the tandem pump as they believe they will all eventually fail due to diesel fuel contamination.
  • Add to that the usual list of things the dealer recommends replacing when they believe an engine has overheated (it hasn’t): thermostat, water pump, etc.

Part of me wants to try and rebuild or replace the tandem pump, then find the coolant leak and fix the one line that’s leaking. Then there’s the matter of the EGR. If I did an EGR delete, would that also take care of the intercooler or does that remain in place?

But then, I thin, I’ve also been kicking the problem of oil disappearing down the road, waiting to look into it. The one thing I do know is there is a LOT of oil in the turbo intercooler; so much so that it leaks out into the surrounding fender and has caused an electrical short in the turn signal. In addition, I’ve been reading around in the forums and I’m suspecting we also have the engine and AC cooling fan problem mentioned prominently in the forums (our A/C will shut down at a lengthy red light as that post mentioned).

Other than the oil leak, all of these things are tempting to try and fix! I’m just running out of time in my life to devote to it and I’m tired of taking it to places like the dealer that aren’t willing to do it the way I would want it done. We’re remote enough that there’s not much else around here that I trust to work on it.

I write this post both to solicit expertise and troubleshooting help with these problems, but also to get opinions on whether or not it’s worth it at this point. This car was my first car that I owned and it has set unrealistic expectations for how long a car should last! When I pause to think about the 14 years I’ve gotten out of it I feel like maybe it is time to hang it up and send it along to someplace better, or maybe if there’s an enthusiast that wants to take it on and give it another life, that has the time to care for it that I don’t, to pass it off.

But, it’s also wonderful to work on, and I’d love to hand it down to my kids someday! I suppose, at the end of the day, it’s personal opinion, but there’s a lot of things I’m probably not thinking about, a lot of factors that I should consider that maybe you guys with all your wisdom could help bring to light.
What do you think? Should I save Maureen? Are these problems simple enough to deal with that I should suck it up and make it happen? Should I anticipate these kinds of problems will continue and this car will become a money and time pit? Should I move on?

Seth B.
 

BobnOH

not-a-mechanic
Joined
May 29, 2004
Location
central Ohio
TDI
New Beetle 2003 manual
Find a good TDI mechanic at least to service the injectors, those can get pricey anyway, just depending. Maybe have them remove the EGR altogether.
Maybe tackle the coolant hoses, tandem pump yourself. Can't interweb guess if the oil usage is a problem.
 

WildChild80

Veteran Member
Joined
May 30, 2016
Location
Nashville, AR
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI 2000 Jetta TDI 2000 New Beetle TDI ALL 5 speeds
I vote to save her

If you need help there are many on here that are more than willing and capable of teaching or talking you through anything

If the egr delete is like an ALH car, yes your cooler goes bye bye...the possibility of it leaking was half the reason I deleted it as you can all but disable it through vagcom but if it ruptures bad things happen.

I am willing to pull parts from a salvage yard and mail them to you if need be but it's hard to imagine life without a TDI...I love my stock base model as much as my moderately modified GLS...they are both my baby's

If you have a budget for it and can carve out time I say go for it but it's been said time and again, these aren't the cheapest cars to keep on the road

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WildChild80

Veteran Member
Joined
May 30, 2016
Location
Nashville, AR
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI 2000 Jetta TDI 2000 New Beetle TDI ALL 5 speeds
I just retired from the Navy and my last ship was a nightmare, but what I learned from it was how to eat an elephant...one bite at a time...

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JDSwan87

Black Swamp Thing
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Location
Michigan near Toledo
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI, 5 speed Lagoon Blue Metallic(sold); 2005 Jetta TDI Wagon auto
Fix it... new tandem pump is 100% top side repair and can be done in about 1 hour taking your time and being methodical. As for the leaking EGR coolant line, pop the hood and take a look, it's probably an easy fix too. As for the turbo leaking oil, how much every 5k miles is used?

Tandem pump is $240
3ft coolant hose is $8
 

wonneber

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 12, 2011
Location
Monroe, NY, USA
TDI
2014 Jetta Sportwagon,2003 Jetta 261K Sold but not forgotten
She’s also consuming oil, something I expect an engine of this age to do, but it complicates things.
(some deleted)
But then, I think, I’ve also been kicking the problem of oil disappearing down the road, waiting to look into it. The one thing I do know is there is a LOT of oil in the turbo intercooler; so much so that it leaks out into the surrounding fender and has caused an electrical short in the turn signal. .
I think this should be a priority.
This is where a runaway can ruin the head and connection rod(s) if not worse.
The down side, this is usually the turbo itself which is pricy. :(

At a minimum you should start draining the oil out of the intercooler.
Some have posted drilling a small hole in the lowest point of the plastic and using a sheet metal screw to seal it for easier draining.
 

johnboy00

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2000
Location
Bridgewater,Ma.,USA
TDI
2005 Passat Wagon, 2004 Jetta, 2003 Jetta wagon
How's the body? My decision to throw in the towel with my Golf came because of a rusting body, leaking heater core, so no heat, and then finally a head gasket leak.

Even if you need a new turbo, that's only $900. That's 3 car payments, give or take.

If the body is good, I'd keep it. But If the winters have taken their toll, start looking, decide what your willing to fix, take steps to keep it running for as long as possible and then put a do not resuscitate order on it.

My 05 Passat is currently off the road and garaged until I fix it (possible loose flywheel rivits). Anyway, we needed another vehicle for my wife so we got a "nice" Lexus CT200h (A prius with a Lexus badge). I could drive it on city streets and enjoy it well enough. If I had to drive it for more than a couple of exits on the highway daily, I would trade it in within a week. It might get 43mpg but its no diesel. Luckily I will not be driving it very much.
 

OlyTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2007
Location
Olympia, WA
TDI
'04 Golf
If the body is in good shape, there's virtually no repair that would kill the value in fixing (short of an engine AND a trans going) when compared to buying a new vehicle. These will go forever if you keep up. Do the math...it always pencils-out.
 

spanky1

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2003
Location
east Tennessee
TDI
Jetta, 2012, platinum grey(6-spd manual)
Wow Ollie Brown. Your post sounds a lot like my situation.

I have a 2003 5-spd Jetta. I'm approaching 350k miles.

Many months ago, I began to lose coolant. The coolant leak became worse, and made a 40-minute drive to work a challenge. I finally realized that the new coolant cap that I bought was defective, and didn't thread into the bottle correctly. I put my old cap back on, and I only had to add water every couple days. As the cold weather approaches, I know that I'll have to add coolant to my water to avoid freezing(this happened last winter).

I talked to my trusted mechanic, and he thought that it was the EGR cooler leaking, and he was going to do the delete. When he checked the coolant bottle, the high pressure bothered him. He said there was way too much pressure being built up in the coolant tank. He was 95% sure that the issue is a leaking head gasket, or warped head.

The parts weren't going to cost too much, but he said his labor, and probable work by a machine shop would push the cost up. He also hears a ticking in the top-end that he is concerned about. In addition to this, he let me know that my turbo (replaced a few years ago) would probably die prematurely because it's out of balance. When he replaced the timing belt in January, he said it appeared as if something had come through the turbo and knicked a fin. He said that the imbalance would cause the bearings to wear much quicker than they should.

Also, my injector pump is really worn as well(it's the original).

So, rather than sinking more money into, this gives me time to plot a new course of action. I love the diesel. I bought it new in 2003, and back in the early 80's I drove a diesel Jetta.

I don't think I'll go back with the diesel. I know that I'll not be able to replace the performance/mileage, but I won't miss having to travel over an hour to find a good TDI mechanic. Also, I'm afraid to buy one that's already got 100k miles on it.

I don't know if I should sell it or part it out. Also, I have no idea what I'd like to replace it with. I drive ~ 20k miles each year, so I want the best mileage I can get. I hate to say the hybrid word, but I've actually been reading about used Priuses.
 

Genesis

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Location
Sevier County TN
TDI
'03 Jetta Wagon
I bought a new Mazda 6 "Sport" when it came time to give my '03 to my kid (which is still running fine with ~240,000 miles on it.)

I now have 140,000 miles on it. It gets near 40mpg on the highway (on *regular* gas, which costs less per gallon than diesel), it's comfortable, it has a MTX and it has needed nothing other than oil and filter changes (and mtx fluid) plus a set of plugs, tires, brakes and a battery. In other words routine maintenance. It has a timing chain so no belt. No turbo, so less complexity. Nothing fancy electronics-wise to break either. I had the ECU tuned which provided a material torque lift and was worth the money. I have UOAs showing essentially zero wear metals over a change interval on several instances going to 100k miles (next one is due at 150) so barring a catastrophic failure of some sort to expect the engine to go to 300k miles -- and maybe beyond -- is not at all unreasonable. In other words right up into TDI territory in terms of longevity. Oil changes from the bottom with a fumoto valve take 10 minutes as the filter spins off without a mess using a gallon ziplok bag. Mazda did an exemplary job on service access with this vehicle when it comes to ordinary stuff; the water pump, for example, is externally accessible and driven by a separate belt from main serpentine one and does not require a secondary tensioner (it's a "stretchy" belt.) Nice.

Mazda has the HX engine coming in the next "3" (next model year it should hit the streets) which should provide a ~20% fuel economy lift and more horsepower out of the same displacement. That will hit the magic 50mpg highway fuel number and the car can be had in a hatchback 5-door, with a stick. If I needed to buy something right NOW I'd probably buy a '14 or '15 MTX 6 Sport used, but if not I'd definitely look at that HX-engined "3" as that will completely void the argument for either a Hybrid or diesel. The only concern would be buying a newly-engineered engine in the first year; as a rule I won't do that due to the risk of getting a "nasty" before the manufacturer has those sorts of things worked out, but Mazda has a pretty good record of not screwing up.
 
Last edited:

BobnOH

not-a-mechanic
Joined
May 29, 2004
Location
central Ohio
TDI
New Beetle 2003 manual
Mazda has made some junk, but they also make some very nice cars. Sounds like you got a winner.
Ollie hasn't been posted back.
 

WildChild80

Veteran Member
Joined
May 30, 2016
Location
Nashville, AR
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI 2000 Jetta TDI 2000 New Beetle TDI ALL 5 speeds
300k isn't anywhere near diesel longevity, I've got a completely stock 2000 with 302k and after a front end refresh it drives like new. Same turbo and IP...

It doesn't seem like Ollie is gonna save it so Fair winds to your TDI

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h.ubk

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2016
Location
Idaho
TDI
1997 Jetta TDI with 1Z Engine
Diesel territory is 600K + miles before a rebuild... IMO.

h.ubk
 

spanky1

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2003
Location
east Tennessee
TDI
Jetta, 2012, platinum grey(6-spd manual)
I bought a new Mazda 6 "Sport" when it came time to give my '03 to my kid (which is still running fine with ~240,000 miles on it.)

I now have 140,000 miles on it. It gets near 40mpg on the highway (on *regular* gas, which costs less per gallon than diesel), it's comfortable, it has a MTX and it has needed nothing other than oil and filter changes (and mtx fluid) plus a set of plugs, tires, brakes and a battery. In other words routine maintenance. It has a timing chain so no belt. No turbo, so less complexity. Nothing fancy electronics-wise to break either. I had the ECU tuned which provided a material torque lift and was worth the money. I have UOAs showing essentially zero wear metals over a change interval on several instances going to 100k miles (next one is due at 150) so barring a catastrophic failure of some sort to expect the engine to go to 300k miles -- and maybe beyond -- is not at all unreasonable. In other words right up into TDI territory in terms of longevity. Oil changes from the bottom with a fumoto valve take 10 minutes as the filter spins off without a mess using a gallon ziplok bag. Mazda did an exemplary job on service access with this vehicle when it comes to ordinary stuff; the water pump, for example, is externally accessible and driven by a separate belt from main serpentine one and does not require a secondary tensioner (it's a "stretchy" belt.) Nice.

Mazda has the HX engine coming in the next "3" (next model year it should hit the streets) which should provide a ~20% fuel economy lift and more horsepower out of the same displacement. That will hit the magic 50mpg highway fuel number and the car can be had in a hatchback 5-door, with a stick. If I needed to buy something right NOW I'd probably buy a '14 or '15 MTX 6 Sport used, but if not I'd definitely look at that HX-engined "3" as that will completely void the argument for either a Hybrid or diesel. The only concern would be buying a newly-engineered engine in the first year; as a rule I won't do that due to the risk of getting a "nasty" before the manufacturer has those sorts of things worked out, but Mazda has a pretty good record of not screwing up.
I'm a Mazda fan. I bought an RX-7 in 1990, and kept it until I had my first child. I also had a Protege which I ran near 200K miles. My daughter has a 2005 6 sport.
 

spanky1

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2003
Location
east Tennessee
TDI
Jetta, 2012, platinum grey(6-spd manual)
Diesel territory is 600K + miles before a rebuild... IMO.

h.ubk
I was hoping for 400k or 500k but I don't think I'll make it. I made a gallant effort, but I'm going to come up a bit short. Regardless, 350k miles is more than I could ask for. It's been a great car.
 

WildChild80

Veteran Member
Joined
May 30, 2016
Location
Nashville, AR
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI 2000 Jetta TDI 2000 New Beetle TDI ALL 5 speeds
I've told many friends, if I wasn't working on my own cars I wouldn't own one of these cars...they do periodically require work that if done by a shop is frighteningly expensive and not just the cost of the work but when I work on my car I know what I've got and can plan for upcoming repairs and I just don't trust many people to care as much as I do about my car...good enough is not good enough for me...it needs to be done right...

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Genesis

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Location
Sevier County TN
TDI
'03 Jetta Wagon
600k+ without any top or bottom end work? If you get lucky. Oil pump, lifters, etc?

Then again the Mazda may get there too. The UOA numbers are nearly indistinguishable from new, out-of-the-bottle oil. Anything mechanical can break but there's no indication it's going to actually wear out.

BTW the "Mazdas" in the 2000s were nearly all actually Fords -- for good and bad. SkyActiv is a different beast entirely; that drivetrain is all theirs, and it's very nicely engineered. The "X" engine is also all theirs and a very unique approach to the problem of stable compression ignition in a gas-fueled engine. I'm very much looking forward to diesel-class fuel economy without the complexity of modern diesel emission standards (and their price, especially when something goes wrong with it) running on regular unleaded. IMHO it's the engine that makes EVs and hybrids utterly pointless for quite a number of years into the future.
 

WildChild80

Veteran Member
Joined
May 30, 2016
Location
Nashville, AR
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI 2000 Jetta TDI 2000 New Beetle TDI ALL 5 speeds
I was reading this thread today and wondering why don't gasoline engines last longer? Is the volatility if gasoline at a 9ish to 1 CR that much worse than the crazy high CRs that diesels run and the EGTs...

I do know that any engine lasts longer when it's loved and properly cared for but why the Stark difference for decades?

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Genesis

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Location
Sevier County TN
TDI
'03 Jetta Wagon
No particular reason other than that the tolerances tend to be tighter in diesels and they're more-heavily built to start with (due to the higher compression ratio.)

The gap is largely closed these days mostly due to improvements in the tolerance stack in gas engines. I think Detroit in particular used to just not give a damn and thus engines that literally ate themselves within 100,000 miles were common. Not so much anymore. Death with modern gas engines tend these days to come from complexity, just as it does with modern diesels (e.g. the newer TDIs tend not to fail due to the engine per-se, but due to HPFP failures that grenade the fuel system.)
 

WildChild80

Veteran Member
Joined
May 30, 2016
Location
Nashville, AR
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI 2000 Jetta TDI 2000 New Beetle TDI ALL 5 speeds
And the Mercedes with pressed on lobes...

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flee

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Location
Chatsworth, CA
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS wagon
I was reading this thread today and wondering why don't gasoline engines last longer? Is the volatility if gasoline at a 9ish to 1 CR that much worse than the crazy high CRs that diesels run and the EGTs...
I do know that any engine lasts longer when it's loved and properly cared for but why the Stark difference for decades?
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Since diesels have historically been commercial workhorses or mpg-focused car
engines they have mostly avoided the pressure to be smaller, lighter and more
powerful year after year. Planned obsolescence certainly plays a role, too.
It's easy to overlook flaws that show up after the factory warranty expires.

Look for diesels and gasoline engines to converge in reliability now and into the future.
 

BobnOH

not-a-mechanic
Joined
May 29, 2004
Location
central Ohio
TDI
New Beetle 2003 manual
Tighter tolerances result in better reliability. This is true of your toaster, your toothbrush and your diesel engine. There may be other factors.
 

WildChild80

Veteran Member
Joined
May 30, 2016
Location
Nashville, AR
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI 2000 Jetta TDI 2000 New Beetle TDI ALL 5 speeds
But even in the hayday of the small block Chevy, even built with the best parts and best maintenance practice's diesels lasted longer back then too...I agree with the advancement or materials and better design gas has made huge gains but how long till you reliably see a line of gas engines make it to half a million miles no sweat. I still suspect gasoline and it's rambunctious causes more wear.

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