If you were shopping, Gen 1 or Gen 3?

joshhol

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 5, 2017
Location
AP
TDI
2014 JSW TDI 6MT no sunroof, 1976 MBZ 300D & 1963 MBZ 220S; sold 2013 JSW TDI 6MT
Which one of these platforms is better suited to handle the changes implemented by the emissions modification?

I had assumed Gen 3 is better equipped because the Adblue dosage increase could account for most of the emission mitigation. However, the fact that the Gen 3's get so much more hardware replaced compared to a Gen 1 makes me wonder if the update is actually harder on those cars.
- Why do Gen 3's get a new DPF while 2010+ Gen 1's do not? More soot concerns?

A fair amount of people report no loss of torque while still getting phenomenal mpg's (45+) on the Gen 3's while a few people have lousy results.

The Gen 1 results seem to be consistent, a little loss of power and a little more loss of mpg's.
I know for my JSW, the fix was garbage and it took a Malone tune to restore the great driving characteristics but the mpgs were never the same.

Since the Gen 1's don't have Adblue, all they could do was retard timing (reducing NOx but increasing soot) and making the car use more post-combustion fuel injections to more frequently raise EGT's.

I assume the Gen 3's do some of this as well but they have the extra variable of Adblue to perhaps minimize the need for those other strategies.

Anyway, that's all my armchair engineering opinion on the matter.

Also as for ride quality, how does a GSW compare to a JSW?
I had a JSW so I'm very familiar with it's feel. Don't have much time driving a GSW. Never had a chance to drive a stick GSW. I hate the way the DSG feels in these cars so that clouded my impression.
 

peterdaniel

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Jul 6, 2008
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Campbell, CA
TDI
2003 Jetta GL 5 spd TDi, 2003 Jetta GLS Indigo blue 5spd wagon. 2003 Jetta GLS Candy white wagon 5 speed
Well, I too, was on the fence. So I rented a JSW DSG and drove as I usually do. THEN I drove a GSW and here are my impression. Remember also, that I usually DD a MK4 JSW 5 speed.

1) The JSW ( 2013) felt like a whale in comparison. It also never got above 39mpg when driving purely on the freeway.
2) The JSW while solid in its own right couldnt compare to the vault like feel in the GSW.
3) The 6 speed manual in the GSW felt amazing. More like my MK4. The JSW felt fine but was still very heavy feeling
4) I like the way I can see the entire hood in the GSW whereas in the JSW, you cant really see much
5) Display and instrumentation was nicer in the GSW
6) stock sound system in the S model GSW was quite nice
7) Seats were and are wider in the GSW. Both were comfortable but the JSW seats are a touch too narrow on the bottom for my liking

8) warranty on the GSW is outstanding.

Those are just my opinions.. Your mileage may vary.
 

sriracha

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805
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2005 Jetta Wagon 5mt, 1982 Rabbit truck (gas)
Equally important, how does the mk4 compare to the mk6 and mk7?
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
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maine
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2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
Since you prefer the 6mt, I'd get whichever one you can find a better deal on that has that transmission.
 

Borsig

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Oct 22, 2009
Location
va
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2015 Golf TDI SE, 2015 GSW SEL (buyback), 2011 JSW (sold)
EA288. Gen 3. Ende. I have owned 2 mk7's and one MK5 (JSW). The JSW is no comparison to the MK7 platform. period.

MK7 platform (golf) is easily the best golf made. I have had both a GSW and Golf sedan. Both ride fine. The GSW has a slight case of wagon butt, and is not as "on rails" the golf way out handles it, but he "ride" is a wash
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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South of Boston
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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
You write "platform" but I think your first question is about drivetrain, or, more specifically, engine. Regarding the two engines, I like them both (have owned both) but I prefer the EA288 for its air to water intercooler and Adblue, for the reasons you mention.

Regarding the cars themselves, for me the GSW is better, no question. But you should drive both and decide. I bought a '12 Golf new before Dieselgate with the intention it would replace my MKIV. It didn't. I sold the Golf and the MKIV is still around. Now I have a GSW and it mostly sits because I'm still driving my Jetta Wagon, but i know that car isn't going to last forever (at least I don't think it will). The GSW will be a great replacement.
 

joshhol

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Joined
Sep 5, 2017
Location
AP
TDI
2014 JSW TDI 6MT no sunroof, 1976 MBZ 300D & 1963 MBZ 220S; sold 2013 JSW TDI 6MT
Thanks all for the replies.

IBW you are right, my wording was not precise enough.
So the updated air/water intercooler design may lead to longer turbo life?
Also, is it fair to think that lurking HPFP issues are left behind in the EA288?
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
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Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
I don't think the air to water intercooler will help turbo life: Sadly turbo life these days seems to be dictated by the high EGTs required for regens. And in general we don't find Borg-Warner turbos (mostly what VW is using these days) as durable as Garretts. What the air-to-water intercooler does provide is no chance for the icing issues that the Gen 1 cars sometimes experience.

My own opinion is that the HPFP issues were pretty much non-existent. But regardless of how you feel about the Gen 1 cars and the HPFP, it's now covered under the extended emissions warranty so it's probably not something you need to worry about.
 

joshhol

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 5, 2017
Location
AP
TDI
2014 JSW TDI 6MT no sunroof, 1976 MBZ 300D & 1963 MBZ 220S; sold 2013 JSW TDI 6MT
Forgive me for asking a dumb question but I feel like there is conflicting info out there. Do resale TDI's come with the emissions warranty? I know the pamphlet says the warranty is fully transferrable but I've been led to believe when you buy a buyback car, you don't get the warranty.

EDIT: Nevermind. Looks like they should get the 4 yr, 48,000 mile warranty.
 
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IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
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Aug 16, 2004
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South of Boston
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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Buyback cars come with a warranty that covers all emissions hardware (which includes the DPF, Cat, HPFP, turbo, injectors, and more), for 11 years and 162K miles from the car's original inservice date (first owner) or 4 years/48,000 miles, whichever is greater. (I think I have that right). In addition, some cars, depending on age and condition, may be eligible as Certified Pre-Owned, with a 2-year bumper-to-bumper warranty.

So yes, there is a warranty. Not sure how that plays out if you buy from a non-VW dealer, however. The emissions warranty should still be in effect.
 

KITEWAGON

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Seacoast, NH
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2014 Touareg Exec, 2014 JSW
EDIT: Nevermind. Looks like they should get the 4 yr, 48,000 mile warranty.

It depends on the year and even the transmission. MK6 cars get the warranty you mention from the date of the fix or 10.5year/126k miles from new (for the manual transmissions cars).
 

Chiroman

Active member
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Jun 20, 2018
Location
Alberta, Canada
TDI
'15 GSW, '05 Jetta PD
I had a '09 MK5 JSW, and now have the '15 GSW. There is no comparison, the MQB platform of the MK7 is awesome. One thing to consider, and what put me on the fence for a while before buying the Mk7 is that the MK7 TDI does not have an independent rear suspension as there was not enough room due to the Adblue (urea) tank. It uses a torsion beam rear suspension. The gas MK7's have the independent rear suspension however. In the end, I found this to be a non-issue. The MK7 GSW's handling is still better than my MK5 JSW. I think also the rear brakes on the MK7 may be a little smaller. Unless you are racing the MK7 on a track, I doubt you would notice the difference.
 

roadlust

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2003 golf gl reflex silver (sold) 2013 TDI 2 door Golf Blue Graphite Metallic 6MT Premium Package.
I recall reading that MK7 owners complaining that the seats were less comfortable than the MK6 seats.
 

sriracha

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805
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2005 Jetta Wagon 5mt, 1982 Rabbit truck (gas)
My own opinion is that the HPFP issues were pretty much non-existent. But regardless of how you feel about the Gen 1 cars and the HPFP, it's now covered under the extended emissions warranty so it's probably not something you need to worry about.

I would’ve agreed with you, a year ago, but I experienced the dreaded HPFP failure on my mk6 Golf, on a road trip last spring. I only used Shell diesel since buying the mk6 new. Last spring, I filled up at a questionable Shell station. 9 miles later my car shut down on the highway. I towed to the closest VW dealership. The next day they confirmed my worst fear that my HPFP failed and ruined the entire fuel system. My 2013 TDI had 110k miles on it and VW refused to warranty the failure. Apparently the 2013 model year was not granted the extended warranty. I had to pay $5000 out of pocket for the repair. Plus, it ruined my vacation.

As a result, I registered for the buyback and bought a mk4 TDI.
 

Borsig

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Oct 22, 2009
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va
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2015 Golf TDI SE, 2015 GSW SEL (buyback), 2011 JSW (sold)
I recall reading that MK7 owners complaining that the seats were less comfortable than the MK6 seats.

The SEL seats are amazing. And worth it.
 

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
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Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
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2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
I think also the rear brakes on the MK7 may be a little smaller. Unless you are racing the MK7 on a track, I doubt you would notice the difference.

Due to the weight savings of the MQB platform, the GSW and Golf TDI went down a size on the front rotors, that should be a win for all those that live 3 months with white stuff on the ground, 15" wheels fit!!! Rock 195-75-15 and live like a king!

As of now (in the USA) the only GSW that needs 16" wheels is the Alltrack

AFAIK rear brakes are same on IRS and torsion bar GSW.
 

turbobrick240

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Nov 18, 2014
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maine
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2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
Due to the weight savings of the MQB platform, the GSW and Golf TDI went down a size on the front rotors, that should be a win for all those that live 3 months with white stuff on the ground, 15" wheels fit!!! Rock 195-75-15 and live like a king!
As of now (in the USA) the only GSW that needs 16" wheels is the Alltrack
AFAIK rear brakes are same on IRS and torsion bar GSW.
I don't think the 12 lbs of weight difference between the jsw and the gsw had anything to do with the smaller (and cheaper) brake components. I'd chalk that one up to the bean-counters.
 

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
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NH
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2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
12 or 100#? either way agreed, the engineers fought the bean counters and yeah the bean counters probably won.
 

KITEWAGON

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2014 Touareg Exec, 2014 JSW
Due to the weight savings of the MQB platform, the GSW and Golf TDI went down a size on the front rotors, that should be a win for all those that live 3 months with white stuff on the ground, 15" wheels fit!!! Rock 195-75-15 and live like a king!

I like 15" winters as much as the next TDI wagon driver. But I'll take the bigger brakes any day.
 
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