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Old March 10th, 2005, 09:44   #1
TDIMeister
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Default "Porsche Does Not Believe in Diesels"

Full article here

Porsche Near Hybrid Decision
Ward's Auto World, Feb 1, 2005



This will be the year of big decisions for Porsche AG.

CEO Wendelin Wiedeking is promising the German sports-car maker in the next few months will determine whether it will offer a gasoline-electric hybrid drive system for its Cayenne cross/utility vehicle.

By mid year, Porsche also will decide whether it will add a long-anticipated fourth model to its lineup, Wiedeking says.

He says the hybrid system “only would make sense in the Cayenne,” because of space and weight restrictions in the 911 and Boxster. Porsche is studying several technology options, but any Porsche hybrid would have to blend in with the rest of the lineup — and be sporty.

Porsche will not do a diesel hybrid, Wiedeking says. “I don't believe in diesels. It's the wrong way for the environment. I believe in gasoline engines.”

Porsche may look for a partner to do a hybrid, but Wiedeking says the auto maker “would have to have an impact” on engineering the system.

A partner could be sought for the fourth model line, as well, says Wiedeking.

He says Porsche already has identified what type of vehicle the new model would be. A new assembly plant may be needed to build the vehicle.
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Old March 10th, 2005, 09:46   #2
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Default Re: \"Porsche Does Not Believe in Diesels\"

Quote:
“I don't believe in diesels. It's the wrong way for the environment. I believe in gasoline engines.”

A 13/18 MPG gasoline Cayenne S is "the right way?"
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Old March 10th, 2005, 10:07   #3
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Default \"Porsche Does Not Believe in Diesels\"

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I don't believe in diesels. It's the wrong way for the environment.
I'd really like to know what THAT'S based on!
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Old March 10th, 2005, 10:30   #4
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Quote:
Quote:
I don't believe in diesels. It's the wrong way for the environment.
I'd really like to know what THAT'S based on!
T.A.R.B.

(Teutonic Air Resources Board)
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Old March 10th, 2005, 11:34   #5
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Default \"Porsche Does Not Believe in Diesels\"

I have four letters for Wiedeking: T A R D

Okay, now that I'm done being juvenile, what the heck is he talking about? Has he even heard of particulate filters?
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Old March 10th, 2005, 11:51   #6
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Default \"Porsche Does Not Believe in Diesels\"

Gas engine makers are still in denial about ultra-fines.
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Old March 10th, 2005, 23:35   #7
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Quote:
I have four letters for Wiedeking: T A R D


Now that was the funniest thing I've seen all day!!!
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Old March 10th, 2005, 23:42   #8
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I really don't like the direction that Porsche is going. The Cayenne is a POS in my opinion. Porsche needs to stick with what they are good at. What's next, a Ferrari SUV?

B.T.W. I live down the road from Porsche factory in Stuttgart, where the 911s are built. There are a handfull of individuals that work there, whos only job in life is to drive the finished cars from one building to another. Some of the buildings are quite a distance away from each other. Where do I sign up for that job?
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Old March 11th, 2005, 01:57   #9
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Default Re: \"Porsche Does Not Believe in Diesels\"

Although Cayenne is their best selling model, I agree. It will take a change in the industry for them to see the light on diesels.

I sold my 1988 Carrera 3.2 to get the CDI and it is plenty sporty, IMO. 0 to 60 mph in 6.6 seconds. A svelte shape. Coefficient of Drag of .27. Forged multilink suspension. Excellent bucket seats and steering response.

Porsche used to be considered "The Ultimate in Personal Transportation" but has turned into a Corvette chasing boutique brand with eye-watering prices.

It used to be that you could get a 914 that was safe, comfortable, sporty, and got 35 mpg.

I think direct gasoline injection may be more in Porsche's future for now. They are the most profitable company in the business and can dwell in a higher priced market.
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Old March 11th, 2005, 06:48   #10
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Default Re: \"Porsche Does Not Believe in Diesels\"

Porsche long ago abandoned the hard core enthusiast as a customer base, so it only seems logical that they would turn to making SUVs just because they are more profitable.

Personally, I am happy to see them diverge further from the right path (one might even say, the righteous path) - it leaves the VW market to VW. Now, if we could just get VW to sell real enthusiast cars in THIS market......

Pat
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Old March 12th, 2005, 06:56   #11
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Default Re: \"Porsche Does Not Believe in Diesels\"

PORSCHE:
P roves
O nly
R ich
S uckers
C an
H ave
E verything

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Old March 12th, 2005, 09:25   #12
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Default Re: \"Porsche Does Not Believe in Diesels\"

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Porsche used to be considered "The Ultimate in Personal Transportation" but has turned into a Corvette chasing boutique brand with eye-watering prices.
ROF!
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Old March 12th, 2005, 10:42   #13
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Default \"Porsche Does Not Believe in Diesels\"

Quote:
I really don't like the direction that Porsche is going. The Cayenne is a POS in my opinion. Porsche needs to stick with what they are good at. What's next, a Ferrari SUV?

B.T.W. I live down the road from Porsche factory in Stuttgart, where the 911s are built. There are a handfull of individuals that work there, whos only job in life is to drive the finished cars from one building to another. Some of the buildings are quite a distance away from each other. Where do I sign up for that job?
I agree with Voltron1011, a Porsche should be a Porsche.

Long gone are the 944/968 and 928 that were replaced by the Boxter and Cayenne.

Porsche is a small company and they need to diversify in order to survive.

They did that with the Cayenne.

Although they made the mistake of have slushbox only Cayenne (who drives an auto Porsche), it's a success.

But they should leave it as it is: a diesel Porsche, no way!

It all started when they introduced the Tiptronic a few years ago.

They wanted to get the market of people who can't drive stick (or can't drive altogether) and that's fine.

Instead of buying a BMW they were buying a Porsche...

Now they want more market and they are ready to dillute their product even more...

A Porsche should be a sport car, that implies: small, manual car.

That's it.

No Ferrari SUV, no automatic, no product dillution.

Anyway, that's my opinion guys.

Let's keep it real and fun.
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Old March 14th, 2005, 02:13   #14
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Here is another theory as to why Porsche doesn't like diesels. I have heard of a lot of enthusiaste drivers who don't like diesels for their on/off power band and low revving characteristics.

There was an episode of TOP GEAR where they pitted a Skoda (Golf equivalent) against a Mini Cooper S. The Skoda had the 2.0 150 hp diesel and the Mini had it's supercharged engine. The Skoda STOMPED the Mini on the track. It was faster than the Mini by a long shot, however the driver of the Skoda didn't like the instant-on power that the VW engine had. He claimed it was too hard to modulate the power around the track.

In some ways I can agree with that statement, however if you are going to be driving around a track, wouldn't you have a race car anyway? In day-to-day driving I would take a Golf 150 TDI over any other car. If I had to have a track car, I would take the brand new GTI...
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Old March 14th, 2005, 06:31   #15
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Default Re: \"Porsche Does Not Believe in Diesels\"

I don't have a problem that Porsche doesn't regard Diesel engines as a good fit for it's products. That's their prerogative. I would never expect to see a Diesel-powered Ferarri, either (but I think it's cool that former gasser die-hards like Lamborghini, Jaguar, Lexus, etc. are giving it a hard look).

However, what is insulting, frankly, and pejorative is Wiederking's unsubstantiated statement that Diesel is "the wrong way for the environment," and so I come back to my original question: Is, then, a 5500+ pound gasoline-fuelled SUV that gets 13/18 MPG according to the EPA "the right way?" Wiederking is no dummy. He has a position and vision for Porsche; an OPINION, and that's fine. Just don't go on spouting off unsubstantiated drivel.

Diesels can and do meet the same Euro-IV standards today as gasser engines. Only a few years ago the industry decried that it could not be done without the huge expense and complexity of additional exhaust aftertreatment. WRONG! And now, top brass of even the most pro-Diesel automakers say they won't be able to meet Euro-V. I say, BULLSH!T!!! It's history repeating itself over and over again since the first emissions regs first came into the fore in the 1970s.

Will it take expensive aftertreatment for Diesels to meet Euro-V / Tier-2 Bin 5 or better? Almost certainly. Gasser engines have not sit still either. Technology, cost and complexity are going up with those, as well. Significant engineering needs to be done eliminate evaporative emissions from gasoline engines, too. There's a cost in that. Modern cars typically have no less than 2 catalytic converters, and 2- O2 sensors. Some have even more. There are costs in those as well. Gasoline Direct Injection is expected to become ubiquitous, just as PFI displaced carburetors a decade ago. There's a cost with that. Engine downsizing, and the resultant use of turbocharging and supercharging, add cost. Hybridization adds to cost.

Pro-gasoline, anti-Diesel groups often cite emissions and secondarily the cost disadvantage of Diesel engines as their main opposing arguments. Secretly though, as far as the OEMs are concerned, it ultimately ALL comes down to cost and much, much less about emissions. The automakers just have to meet the regs, which are uniform for gassers and Diesels. That's all; there are no special additional requirements for Diesels. How they meet the regs is up to them.
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