60 MPG back to back Thread Secrets Only

Turbospool

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2007
Location
Daleville Va
TDI
2001 White TDI Jetta, 280k, 2003 jetta 270k
Alright guys ...... I realize summer weather is upon us..... and we'd like to know what it takes for you to manage 60 MPG back to back , tank to tank, NO INDIVIDUAL SMART TRIPS!
1. What exact year, car, and mods do you have in the car you manage this in.
2. What technic do you personally apply?
3. What State/locality , terrain , elevation, weather temps, etc., are you doing this in?
4. How do you measure your milage?

I know this is being done by a select few, and we'd like to learn from you pro's! ;)

Anyone else feel more criteria questions should be added let er be known.
 

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H, the other oil burner: 1967 Saab Sonett II two stroke
Wow! that's a tough feat to accomplish. I'm out.
My closest is 1025.2 miles on 16.77 gallons (61.15 mpg) followed by 726.5 miles on 12.28 gallons (59.16 mpg).

I did have 573.4 miles on 8.57 gallons for 66.89 mpg.
I did a quick check of the accuracy with a brief 348.5 miles and 5.08 gallons (68.60 mpg) but that doesn't satisfy your full tank criteria.
The next full tank was 658.8 miles on 11.00 gallons for 59.89 mpg, again, not quite back to back 60's, and that partial fill in between spoils it.

And if your running average of nearly 56 mpg is true, you are more likely to make the 60+60. My lifetime average in that 1996 Passat was 52.5, well below yours.
 

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H, the other oil burner: 1967 Saab Sonett II two stroke
Oh,
1996 Passat sedan, I think I had a 1k ohm Evry mod on it at that time.
Moderately hard acceleration (no wheelspin) up to desired speed, then highest gear possible (1200 rpm in 5th and 35 mph) and no acceleration. Maintenance of momentum with minimal braking and slowing, and minimal acceleration.
Central Massachusetts, between 1200 ft and sea level, May 5th to May 12th and then August 6th to August 16th of 1999.
Mileage was from odometer (checked against 100 consecutive miles of interstate back in '97? or '98?) and dollars spent over price per gallon ($16.75 at $.999 a gallon is 16.76676 gallons).
 

jasonm11

New member
Joined
Oct 25, 2010
Location
Tioga TX (just N of Dallas)
TDI
2000 NB 5spd
I thought I was doing well at 47mpg in my bug. Wow how do you guys get that kind of mileage. For me to get 47 I have to set the cruise and run 65mpg on flat interstate for extended periods.
 

Wksg

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2008
Location
Ann Arbor MI
TDI
2003 GLS TDI Wagon
I got 905 miles, 930 miles, then 1000 miles on three consecutive tanks. But the 1000 mile tank was "only" 59.8 mpg, so I didn't even get into the 60 mpg club.

No mods on my wagon other than T4 nozzles. On the 1000 mile tank I was more or less keeping revs to 2000 max, with mostly highway driving.

Just filled tonight the first tank after the 1000 mile tank, where I digressed to more like 70 mph driving. 870 miles, 53.0 mpg.
 

ryan74701

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 8, 2007
Location
oklahoma
i was getting 58-62 mpg driving 75 miles from durant, ok to mcalester, ok with a 30 mph tail wind :)

2011 4 door golf tdi
 

UFO

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2007
Location
A mile high
TDI
2001 Beetle
60mpg... not going to happen with my model under normal driving condition.
Mine either, but I'm about to get 47mpg back to back tanks on my automatic Beetle. Maybe if (or when :p ) I do a 5 speed conversion I can get closer to 60mpg.
 

hip001

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Location
Gainesville, Georgia
TDI
2015 Golf Sportwagen TDI SEL dsg
My 01 Beetle got 58mpg when i used the "pulse n glide" technique, drove slow with AC off and windows up, not exceeding 2000 rpm's. But I also have not made the 60mpg club. I think if i drive the 96 Passat this way I'd have a shot at it.
 

DK

Veteran Member
Joined
May 6, 2002
Location
Massachusetts
TDI
2014 TDI Golf 6 speed
The Golf averages in the mid 50's. It is an ALH '02 and it's a perfect commute.:D 60mpg? Won't happen unless I spend for a higher gear, and that won't happen either.
 

MikeMars

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Location
UK
TDI
Vento 1.9 TDi (retired), A4 1.9 TDi (rear end collision), VW Passat 1.9 TDi (retired), Audi A2 1.4 TDi
I don't think I really qualify. I did get a few 60mpgUS tanks in the Passat when I was doing engine-off P&G, but I don't use that technique any more (it destroyed my clutch). Excluding that technique, I'd say that 56-58mpg or so was the best I could get back-to-back. Click on the green cleanMPG sig for more details.

I've been around 59-60mpgUS routinely in my A2 TDi 1.4, but that's an aluminium car with 3 cylinders (basically 3/4 of the 1.9TDi engine).

Basically:

Make sure you live somewhere with gently rolling hills so you can do P&G (but no big hills)
Temperate climate, 20 centigrade or more, but not in the 30s. Not less than 15c.
Never ever use your heater or climate control
Never drive in the rain
Never drive when there is a headwind
Never drive in the dark
Turn off all unnecessary electrical loads
Turn off your CD / radio, and LISTEN to your engine
Never put on a roof rack etc
Never drive less than 20 miles (and 30+ is better)
Never drive more than 60mph, preferably not over 55
Never drive in the city (stop/go)
Never drive in bad traffic (traffic jams)
Leave lots of space between you and the driver in front
Park facing down a hill (never start up a hill)
Park face-out (so you don't need to manoeuvre when your engine is cold)
Never drive an automatic
Never have passengers, empty out all unnecessary weight
Pump up tyres hard (40psi, or more)
Use LRR tyres

OK, some of the above is impractical if you live in a city etc. But a bad traffic day, or bad weather, will ruin a 60mpg tank. If you drive short distances, in the city, or too fast, you will never get a good tank. The 60mpg tanks I had were all in near-perfect conditions. I have no patience for the endless stream of people who complain about their MPG, when it turns out they drive at 80+mph.

Measure tanks brim to brim. Take a note of the miles at the 3/4, 1/2, 1/4, and reserve points. Use a trip computer which shows both instantaneous MPG and trip MPG, and compare your progress every day. After a while you will be able to tell the wind speed and direction simply by your MPG at particular points in your journey.


The car & mods don't matter as much as people think, as long as a) it's got a TDi, b) it doesn't have a DPF, c) it's manual, and finally d) it's aerodynamic (i.e., not the beetle, sorry guys). Mods will give you a few % extra, but changing the driver's right foot makes vastly more difference.
 
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shizzler

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2005
Location
Ann Arbor MI
TDI
05 BEW Wagon
My best is 55/56 mpg back to back on a road trip to Florida and back (from Michigan).

No techniques whatsoever, just 70-75 mph cruising. Girlfriend did half the driving, and she damn sure didn't care about mpg.

My secret? - aeromods! (plus the usual, coasting when possible, and 40 psi in the tires). Now that I am lifted and 4" higher off the ground, mpg is suffering... along with some other new gremlins.....#$%& !

But seriously - lower your ALH TDI golf of Jetta, aeromod the crap out of it, maybe a lower 5th gear ratio, 40+ psi on LRR tires, and drive 60 mph steady state for full tanks. You will hit 60 mpg easily.
 

UFO

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2007
Location
A mile high
TDI
2001 Beetle
I am close to finishing my current tank of fuel, where I am accelerating on flats and hills and coasting down them. From last tank to this one, I expect to have gained nearly 5 mpg with driving technique the only change - I could hit 50mpg with my automatic Beetle in mixed city/highway driving.

My point is a steady pace will not give you the best mileage, the trick is to use the engine at its most efficient operating region, at 80% load between 1800 and 2200 rpm. Even diesels benefit from this, not just choked-up gassers.
 

adamant628

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2009
Location
Columbus, OH
TDI
2003 Jetta Wagon GLS
I just got a PR of >52 MPG on one tank. I'm usually in the high 40s. Staying under 60mph is necessary for me to get this good even.

I actually got ~40MPG on a recent trip with a 6'x3'x1' book shelf strapped to the roof. I was impressed it was that high!
 

3516ACERT

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Location
Maryland
TDI
2010 JSW
I can't even get back to back 50's - I've got a 47/48 back to back currently, but traffic is just too congested here in Baltimore/DC where I drive.

I live a couple hundred feet elevation higher than where I work - so my inbound commute is easy to get in the 50's on a school holiday when traffic is light. It gets destroyed on the way home when I can't get out of the low 40's going 23 miles uphill.

Very jealous of the 60mpg crowd - kudos.

I don't know of a fuel source with a better BTU capacity than diesel, so... I suspect we are collectively doing the best we can with what we have.
 

gdr703-2

Active member
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Location
Vancouver BC Canada
TDI
Golf 2 door
1. What exact year, car, and mods do you have in the car you manage this in.
2. What technic do you personally apply?
3. What State/locality , terrain , elevation, weather temps, etc., are you doing this in?
4. How do you measure your milage?
VW Golf 2002 2 door manual
mods? er, pump up tires, shift weight forward, block off half of radiator cowl with bucket lid.
Pulse and Glide,
My commute is Hwy1, HorseShoe Bay to Coquitlam, (Vancouver BC) 50km. Probably about ideal. Undulating terrain, traffic is neavy going the pother way. road speeds are nothing like California's
Excel spreadheet
4L/100 over 275,000 km. 58.9mpUSg
every summer for the last 9 years I have consequtive tanks in the 60's.
every winter (rainy season) its +/- 57

for more detail see Driving for better mpg
 

smck

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2008
Location
south east indiana
TDI
2000 golf man, 2003 golf man
They're no longer secrets if shared are they?

1. 2000 Golf, check my profile for mods
2. Momentum conservation (use coasting in gear for slowing or holding back out of gear otherwise), load averaging, high tire pressure 48+ (51 sidewall), no speeding (took a while to break myself of this one), no A/C in summer no heat in winter other than natural flow through system from high pressure generated at cowl, windows up over 40 mph, ride the ridges in the rain, pick the smoothest road surface without inhibiting other traffic, perform maintenance as required, probably more here that I'm not mentioning.
3. Indiana/Ohio/Kentucky area, hilly terrain, whatever weather is thrown our way
4. Always fill to the brim and manually calculate.
5. Plan to start running back to back 70's here again starting with current tank
 
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UFO

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2007
Location
A mile high
TDI
2001 Beetle
I am close to finishing my current tank of fuel, where I am accelerating on flats and hills and coasting down them. From last tank to this one, I expect to have gained nearly 5 mpg with driving technique the only change - I could hit 50mpg with my automatic Beetle in mixed city/highway driving.

My point is a steady pace will not give you the best mileage, the trick is to use the engine at its most efficient operating region, at 80% load between 1800 and 2200 rpm. Even diesels benefit from this, not just choked-up gassers.
I am going to take this back. My Scangauge was totally lying to me. I did not get closer to 50mpg. I am questioning how effective P&G is on the TDI as well.
 

MikeMars

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Location
UK
TDI
Vento 1.9 TDi (retired), A4 1.9 TDi (rear end collision), VW Passat 1.9 TDi (retired), Audi A2 1.4 TDi
I gather that the scangauge does not cope with coasting etc (I don't have one, this is just feedback I've seen on the forum), although my old Passat's trip computer was accurate when coasting. You have to rely on the usual tank-to-tank measurement...

Between 40mph & 60mph, try a more gentle pulse phase, so that 30mpg (us) or thereabouts shows on the instantaneous display.

As well as hills, try it on the flat, when you have either no wind or a tail wind (don't try it with a headwind).

Read through the 1000 mile/tank thread, it was discussed there in quite a bit of detail.
 
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FlashT

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2010
Location
LA
TDI
'98 NB - sold
I read all these threads about people trying to get some high mpg number and talk about which mods they use and how they drive, etc. but most people never take into consideration that if they want really good mileage then some compromises must be made. To reach a solid 60 mpg's in a TDI without driving using extreme (in my opinion, annoying) hypermiling techniques, some compromises must be made.

First, the the amount of fueling must be reduced. The smallest injector nozzles must be used, probably from an automatic TDI. A 10mm injection pump must also be used. Reducing peak fueling is absolutely critical. This modification alone will produce the most promising results towards better FE. It will however, reduce the car's peak hp. Another added benefit would be an engine that would last much, much longer.

Next, the amount of air entering the engine must be restricted. Placing some sort of restriction in the intake path, probably pre-turbo, would be best at limiting the amount air entering the engine. This how Le Mans cars are kept from making too much power, so why not apply this logic to TDI's? It is certainly proven to work. Perhaps installing a smaller turbo for quicker spool up and low rpm function would serve this purpose as well.

After reducing the amount of fuel and air entering the engine, other modifications such as aerodynamics and weight reduction would then need to be utilized. I will not get into these since they have been discussed elsewhere.

Reducing the amount of air and fuel entering the engine are the most important modifications towards improving fuel economy, yet I hardly ever see anyone go this route. It seems to me like most people are willing to do anything but that.
 

MikeMars

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Location
UK
TDI
Vento 1.9 TDi (retired), A4 1.9 TDi (rear end collision), VW Passat 1.9 TDi (retired), Audi A2 1.4 TDi
...To reach a solid 60 mpg's in a TDI without driving using extreme (in my opinion, annoying) hypermiling techniques, some compromises must be made.
....
Reducing the amount of air and fuel entering the engine are the most important modifications towards improving fuel economy, yet I hardly ever see anyone go this route. It seems to me like most people are willing to do anything but that.
I'd say that's a lot more extreme than hypermiling.

Hypermiling costs nothing, and you can do it in any car you happen to be driving. If you normally hypermile, but you need to be somewhere in a hurry, you can just put your foot down, and hey presto! You've got your original performance back.

But if you've strangled your air & fuel intake, spending hundreds in the process (which you probably will never recover), you've permanently blocked off your options, and probably make your car unsaleable (to Joe Public) into the bargain. Once you change your car, you have to start from scratch again.

So to reach the same MPG target, you can either do something free & reversible, or expensive & irreversible. I fail to see the point in spending $300 to save $50/year when vehicles are typically only kept for 3 years.




(Of course, my position is hypocritical since I'm about to have some mild aero parts - exhaust tunnel cover & airflow improvement around the front wheels - added to my car during today's service. It's purely vanity since at $122 they'll probably never save enough fuel to pay for themselves, hence despite adding them to my car I still wouldn't feel justified in recommending the changes to other people. However at least aero improvements don't negatively impact the car in any way, at least, unlike strangling the engine.)
 
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FlashT

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2010
Location
LA
TDI
'98 NB - sold
I'd say that's a lot more extreme than hypermiling. Hypermiling costs nothing.

If you normally hypermile, but you need to be somewhere in a hurry, you can just put your foot down, and hey presto! You've got your original performance back.

But if you've strangled your air & fuel intake, spending hundreds in the process (which you probably will never recover), you've permanently blocked off your options.
My post may have not been addressing the average man so much as the extremist, which I do see quite a bit of on sites like ecomodder.com. Some of those people ruin their cars by doing things like putting pizza pans or tape on their wheels so air can not enter for better aerodynamics, etc. Then they become so suprised when the brakes fail from overheating. I think the point of my post is that modding to extremes for FE is foolish and dangerous really. It just does not add up in the end.
 

UFO

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2007
Location
A mile high
TDI
2001 Beetle
First, the the amount of fueling must be reduced. The smallest injector nozzles must be used, probably from an automatic TDI. A 10mm injection pump must also be used. Reducing peak fueling is absolutely critical. This modification alone will produce the most promising results towards better FE. It will however, reduce the car's peak hp. Another added benefit would be an engine that would last much, much longer.

Next, the amount of air entering the engine must be restricted. Placing some sort of restriction in the intake path, probably pre-turbo, would be best at limiting the amount air entering the engine. This how Le Mans cars are kept from making too much power, so why not apply this logic to TDI's? It is certainly proven to work. Perhaps installing a smaller turbo for quicker spool up and low rpm function would serve this purpose as well.

After reducing the amount of fuel and air entering the engine, other modifications such as aerodynamics and weight reduction would then need to be utilized. I will not get into these since they have been discussed elsewhere.

Reducing the amount of air and fuel entering the engine are the most important modifications towards improving fuel economy, yet I hardly ever see anyone go this route. It seems to me like most people are willing to do anything but that.
I disagree that these mechanical changes you mention are necessary. If you want to reduce fueling, adjust your right foot, it is free. Forcing a reduction in fuel will not help the driver save fuel, as the TDI is a very efficient engine and your proposed "changes" will not affect that. Simply slowing down and reducing your braking will use your kinetic energy more wisely so you won't need more fuel to get back to speed.
 

primerump

Active member
Joined
Mar 26, 2005
TDI
2001 Silver GLS
60 mpg !

wow, I have never been over 51 MPG.. although I will say that I drive 75-80MPH all the time mostly freeway commutes.. and certainly don't drive for economy.... I have noticed a reduction in mpg over the last year and have trouble reaching 45 now.. I'm at 215,000 miles.. perhaps it's time for a new MAF.. I'm still on the original one from new.. !
 

FlashT

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2010
Location
LA
TDI
'98 NB - sold
I disagree that these mechanical changes you mention are necessary. If you want to reduce fueling, adjust your right foot, it is free. Forcing a reduction in fuel will not help the driver save fuel, as the TDI is a very efficient engine and your proposed "changes" will not affect that. Simply slowing down and reducing your braking will use your kinetic energy more wisely so you won't need more fuel to get back to speed.
Yes, the TDI is an efficient engine, that is a given. But, is the TDI fuel efficient enough to get 60 mpg's under normal driving conditions? The answer is no, I'm afraid. But sure, if you spend all your time driving 15 mph below the posted limit or spend 30+ seconds accelerating to cruising speed, coasting uphill, etc. then it is within the realm of possibilty. But driving in that manner is anything but normal.

Do you know what will happen if you reduce air/ fueling into the engine when trying to maintain a constant speed? Engine load will increase. Therefore, it will be possible to maintain a given speed with reduced fuel consumption if the engine load does not exceed 100% at that speed. If this does happen, then speed will simply decrease. So, we can then infer that in order to obtain maximum fuel economy, we need to determine what the maximum cruising speed would be. Then we would simply reduce fueling until engine load is 100% at that speed. This will give us maximum fuel economy.

Using my method, there really is quite a good bit of room for improvement, especially considering that the average TDI is only at 25-35% engine load when cruising at 55 mph.
 

MikeMars

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Location
UK
TDI
Vento 1.9 TDi (retired), A4 1.9 TDi (rear end collision), VW Passat 1.9 TDi (retired), Audi A2 1.4 TDi
wow, I have never been over 51 MPG.. although I will say that I drive 75-80MPH all the time mostly freeway commutes..
As long as there isn't anything wrong with the car (MAF, etc, as you suggest), speed versus MPG is quite a simple relationship. Anybody can manage 60 mpg if they drive slow enough, and all the other conditions are good (distance/temperature/wind/traffic/terrain/etc/etc). It's not really a 'secret'! :)
 

NewTdi

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 15, 2004
Location
NorCal
TDI
2003 Bora, Reflex Silver
wow, I have never been over 51 MPG.. although I will say that I drive 75-80MPH all the time mostly freeway commutes.. and certainly don't drive for economy.... I have noticed a reduction in mpg over the last year and have trouble reaching 45 now.. I'm at 215,000 miles.. perhaps it's time for a new MAF.. I'm still on the original one from new.. !
Check your thermostat and clean your MAF and do a cage mod; the results will impress you.
 
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