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Old June 3rd, 2005, 12:50   #46
Puebla
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Default Re: \"Porsche Does Not Believe in Diesels\"

A Porsche turbodiesel AWD would be really cool though...
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Old October 20th, 2005, 07:36   #47
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Default Re: \"Porsche Does Not Believe in Diesels\"

Well, not anymore at least... But, they actually built diesels for 15+ years Genuine Factory Original Diesel Porsche on ebay
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Old October 26th, 2005, 08:34   #48
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Default Re: \"Porsche Does Not Believe in Diesels\"

On the subject of Diesel Porsches, Lamborghini actually got its start building tractors and the like. I recall reading somewhere that Lamborghini was actually studying a Diesel-engined Gallardo. Why? <shrug> but it's a neat thought... As much as I like Diesels, some types of cars are just better suited for a high-revving gasser.

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Old November 24th, 2010, 19:55   #49
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Quote:
\"Porsche Does Not Believe in Diesels\"
Uh yeah,uh huh. First the Cayenne comes out with a Diesel version, now an oil-burning Panamera 4-door sedan has been confirmed.
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Old December 2nd, 2010, 15:43   #50
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i am not gonna read thru all the posts so let me say here, maybe repeat, porsche does not want to acknowledge their truck engine for gt racing even it would allow them another way to go. they cannot diesel the 3.8 flat 6 so there is no diesel in their future even IF the diesel quattro kicks its butt in sales.

this way they keep the world of gt sportscar racing prisioners of their own lack of forward movement away from the flat 6. as long as they race that engine only in gt their competition must scale down to that performance level.

let me add tectonic union re-think dis-fuctionality to the list of acronyms.
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Old December 2nd, 2010, 17:27   #51
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Porsche is no longer in the drivers seat. VW rules the roost. How that actually plays out,...remains to be seen.

I have to tell you though, I REALLY like the (2011) BMW 330 D twin turbo with its 425 # ft of torque. http://www.carsdirect.com/research/m...2634&year=2011

Last edited by ruking; December 2nd, 2010 at 17:31.
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Old December 2nd, 2010, 20:21   #52
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If Subaru can diesel their flat 4, Porsche can diesel a flat 6...albeit heavy.
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Old December 3rd, 2010, 10:13   #53
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Originally Posted by ddorrer View Post
If Subaru can diesel their flat 4, Porsche can diesel a flat 6...albeit heavy.
I am guessing that Porsche (now VW has the over all problem) did not want to do the R & D necessary to support the diesel into its 911 line up. It probably goes without saying they have done 45-55 years of constant improvement on its gassers. The first US 911 was in 1965.

You have probably looked at it in much GREATER detail than I, but I had read in passing the Subaru diesel does not deliver good mpg numbers and in relation to its gassers even worst percentage wise. Bottom line is mpg would not be a factor for a (gasser) Suburu owner to switch.
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Old December 3rd, 2010, 10:17   #54
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"does not deliver good mpg numbers"
source please?

<< my numbers are here.
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Old December 3rd, 2010, 10:20   #55
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"does not deliver good mpg numbers"
source please?

<< my numbers are here.

You in the Irish ( european) market/s are in a better position to know. The US market/s has NEVER had Subaru diesels. The disconnect should be obvious here. More germane: there are a host to hosts of issues that are strictly strawman in talking of Euro vs US issues.

Here is one. 03 TDI VW Jetta related. Keep in mind (US market passenger car) diesels are an EXTREME minority position. If this is vague or you doubt what I am am saying, etc., fire away.

Euro VW Jetta's not only have more options, i.e. engines, etc, but the closest to the US market option also gets better fuel mileage. So for example that MY's had a 6 sp m and bigger injectors and across the pond, as they say, got 2 mpg BETTER AND more HP/TORQUE, in that configuration, than the US markets version : that: ... got less hp/ power, smaller injectors and 5 sp manual, etc, etc. It also was reputed to cost the oem MORE money to comply with US standards. !? I guess getting 2 mpg worse is better than 2 mpg better!!??

Not that I am complaining about getting a range of 44 to 62 mpg with an EPA of 42/49 overall 45 (?) . At the time, all things considered, it was the BEST mpg. That years' 03 touted Prius might have advertised their EPA, but they got no where near that mpg in the real world. You probably looked at an 03 Prius in utter disdain. Here, it was being touted as the miracle cure to end passenger car emissions pollution singlehandly. Needless to say that was NOT even close.

It really begs the question what is wrong with 2 mpg BETTER, more hp/torque and a 6 speed manual?? (like yours my numbers are posted in the signature)

Last edited by ruking; December 6th, 2010 at 08:16.
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Old December 3rd, 2010, 11:26   #56
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i dont think there is much argument against (in general) diesels get better mileage.
diesel itself produces higher BTU that gasoline. thus for a given vehicle will use less fuel to move.

i think much of the disconnect with diesels is the confusion about emissions and "global warming." Diesel has a higher carbon dioxide output per gallon than gasoline. (22lbs per gallon vs 19.5 roughly) That argument doesnt hold up to me, as i see i dont burn gallons per commute, rather i drive miles per commute. If i was to drive a 60 mile commute in my diesel i would produce something shy of 30 lbs of carbon dioxide, whereas in a comparable(performance and option/size etc)gasser i would probably produce closer to 40lbs.

however the two thought trains are generally not combine. Hyper-milers almost never break there mileage down by carbon units/mile, while the "save the earth" community frequently point to the fact that a gallon of diesel produces a larger carbon footprint as compared to a gallon of gasoline.

but to digress back to the main topic, porsche's demographic is likely not concerned with emission, mileage, or their personal carbon footprint. and a 1.9 liter diesel engine will never produce the same kind of power that a 1.9 liter gasser will, and thus it is not suitable for most sports cars in the eyes of the vast majority.


edited to fix my miswording (which destroyed my argument)

Last edited by Ben Dur; December 3rd, 2010 at 20:57.
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Old December 3rd, 2010, 11:51   #57
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Originally Posted by Ben Dur View Post
i dont think there is much argument against (in general) diesels get better mileage.
diesel itself produces higher BTU that gasoline. thus for a given vehicle will use less fuel to move.

i think much of the disconnect with diesels is the confusion about emissions and "global warming." Diesel has a higher carbon dioxide output per mile than gasoline. (22lbs per gallon vs 19.5 roughly) That argument doesnt hold up to me, as i see i dont burn gallons per commute, rather i drive miles per commute. If i was to drive a 60 mile commute in my diesel i would produce something shy of 30 lbs of carbon dioxide, whereas in a comparable(performance and option/size etc)gasser i would probably produce closer to 40lbs.

however the two thought trains are generally not combine. Hyper-milers almost never break there mileage down by carbon units/mile, while the "save the earth" community frequently point to the fact that a gallon of diesel produces a larger carbon footprint as compared to a gallon of gasoline.

but to digress back to the main topic, porsche's demographic is likely not concerned with emission, mileage, or their personal carbon footprint. and a 1.9 liter diesel engine will never produce the same kind of power that a 1.9 liter gasser will, and thus it is not suitable for most sports cars in the eyes of the vast majority.
Just to put some realities on it BMW's 335 D TTDI has what a 3.0 liter engine in line 6 cylinder twin turbo diesel. It yields what 265 hp and 425 # ft of torque?

So if Porsche were to get into the game, it would have to what? Offer a minimum of 2 diesel configurations? 3.6/3.8L? Right away, the transmissions are inadequate. If the same hp/power ratios are used, we are talking (baseline 3.0L 265 hp/425 # ft. ) 3.6 l ,318 hp 510 # ft, 3.8 l, 337 hp/540 # ft. These are literally MONSTER torque numbers and percentages compared to Porsches 3.6 l 288# ft of torque.

Last edited by ruking; December 3rd, 2010 at 12:13.
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Old December 3rd, 2010, 12:00   #58
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^ Ben Dur's data is wrong. It's true that burning Diesel fuel emits more CO2 at the point of use for a given mass and volume than gasoline. However, a typical Diesel vehicle will consume on the average 30% less fuel than a comparable gasoline-fuelled vehicle. The net effect is that CO2 emissions are generally lower for Diesel versions of the same model vehicle, often by fairly wide margin. Look beyond tank-to-wheel and consider the production process of Diesel fuel from crude oil (well-to-tank, or well-to-wheel), and the CO2 balance looks even better in favour of Diesel.
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Old December 3rd, 2010, 12:39   #59
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Originally Posted by ruking View Post
Just to put some realities on it BMW's 335 D TTDI has what a 3.0 liter engine in line 6 cylinder twin turbo diesel. It yields what 265 hp and 425 # ft of torque?

So if Porsche were to get into the game, it would have to what? Offer a minimum of 2 diesel configurations? 3.6/3.8L? Right away, the transmissions are inadequate. If the same hp/power ratios are used, we are talking (baseline 3.0L 265 hp/425 # ft. ) 3.6 l ,318 hp 510 # ft, 3.8 l, 337 hp/540 # ft. These are literally MONSTER torque numbers and percentages compared to Porsches 3.6 l 288# ft of torque.
to be fair... the e46 m3 has a 3.2 that produces more than 300hp NA (not turbo)... give it up man its not up for debate. Gas power is further along than diesel right now as far as power output is concerned


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^ Ben Dur's data is wrong. It's true that burning Diesel fuel emits more CO2 at the point of use for a given mass and volume than gasoline. However, a typical Diesel vehicle will consume on the average 30% less fuel than a comparable gasoline-fuelled vehicle. The net effect is that CO2 emissions are generally lower for Diesel versions of the same model vehicle, often by fairly wide margin. Look beyond tank-to-wheel and consider the production process of Diesel fuel from crude oil (well-to-tank, or well-to-wheel), and the CO2 balance looks even better in favour of Diesel.
ok well really that only strengthens MY point. if you read my post i explained that the emissions of diesel are worse for a given gallon, not for a given mile. the diesel wins, but you dont have to convince me, im on board. its the other 99% of the US.
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Old December 3rd, 2010, 13:33   #60
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Quote:
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if you read my post i explained that the emissions of diesel are worse for a given gallon, not for a given mile.
That's not what the underlined says.
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Diesel has a higher carbon dioxide output per mile than gasoline.
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