Glow plug broken = head removal :-(

Hey all, been gone for a while (yes, playing around on the Buell motorcycle boards)

Anyhow, so yesterday I decided to change my glow plugs real fast on my 2001 Jetta TDI with 110,000 miles.
Thinking it should take no more then 2 minutes, I pulled into the shop
(i'm a technician for benz) popped the hood and started to remove the glow plugs. 3 come out like butter. then one is kinda tight (like a snug spark plug......) I get about 1/10th a turn and snap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It broke like a darn twix candy bar!

It broke off even with the head! So I spend the next 2 hours carefully drilling out the center to get an extractor bit in there. well that breaks off! I manage to get it out, try another..........it snaps ( and these arent the cheap autozone tools!!!) I try wedging a few different triple square sockets, it only shaves the edges!

So now i'm down to tearing the darn head off!!!

This happen to anyone else?

On a positive note, its almost timing belt time again! and my head gasket has been leaking since I bought her (but not very much, just a seep!)
Plus I have wanted to clean my intake out for a while. Guess I'll get the perfect chance to do all 3 at the same time.

I can plug in the block heater and she will start just fine. But do want to fix it pretty soon. I'll probably wait until summer so I can leave it at work for a week or so while I do the repairs after hours and just ride my bike to work and back with no worries of a super cold morning (like the sleet this morning)

There was a thread on this very problem and how to get the plug out, a while back. Try the search function.

--Nate

I searched the other day with no luck. but today I found some similar threads. i'm pretty much at the point of no return. Ive tried all those ideas as the other posts suggest. (well besides drilling it out with head still installed, but that idea scares me a bit) I think i'll just tear the head off

:-(

You've done what you can but sometimes there is no getting them out.

where are you in texas?

rah7777777 said:

On a positive note, its almost timing belt time again! and my head gasket has been leaking since I bought her (but not very much, just a seep!)
Plus I have wanted to clean my intake out for a while. Guess I'll get the perfect chance to do all 3 at the same time.

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This sounds like the best plan. Also a light squirt of P'Blaster around the base of the GPs every oil change makes sure they come out nicely.

Alphasenoir! I was trying to remember your name! I met you a few months back in plano. I had the TDIclub license plate and you chased me down
(to the Burlington parking lot)

I live in Richardson. I'll be doing most of the work to her at my job
(automotive technician)

Scurvy, very good idea! I will be doing exactly that with every service!!

Well I just use an antisieze like Permatex when I install the glow plugs and I am confident they will come out like butta.

I don't think pulling the head gives you any real advantage when removing stuck/broken plugs.

check out this thread

Ooooh!!! I'm the first one to give you a hard time for replacing your glowplugs for no apparent reason!

Seriously, folks... glowplugs are not sparkplugs. There is NO reason to replace a glowplug unless it is dead. It just increases the chance of something like this happening.

Sorry it happened to you, though... I hope you get it out [relatively] painlessly.

If it won't budge in the loosening direction try it in the tightening direction first. (Thanks Frank06)
Lots of WD40, patience and working it back and forth in 1 hour intervals (sort of) over a period of a few days does wonders for getting it out before it breaks. If the plug can budge 1/10 of a turn then center it in the middle (1/20 turn) of the play so the WD has a better chance to make it around the threads.
This has worked more than a few times for me.

McBrew said:

Ooooh!!! I'm the first one to give you a hard time for replacing your glowplugs for no apparent reason!

Seriously, folks... glowplugs are not sparkplugs. There is NO reason to replace a glowplug unless it is dead. It just increases the chance of something like this happening.

Sorry it happened to you, though... I hope you get it out [relatively] painlessly.

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If it is stuck then that is reason enough to try to get it out before it needs to and becomes one with the head. Even if the the plug is good you may want to a compression test someday.

Well, if it wasnt broken in the 1st place I wouldnt have touched it!
I had a glow plug going bad (misfired pretty bad in the mornings for a couple minutes when I didnt have the block heater plugged in)

So I figured i'd just replace them all instead of just the bad one.

Runonbeer, I Downloaded that adobe file. Nice outline. but that is basically exactly what I did. well minus the end where the glow plug comes out

Broke two extractors and stripped a torx and triple square socket!
I let it sit for about 10 hours with some PB blaster on it to soak in and gave it another shot last night. no budge! just started to strip my torx again. oh and the only drill bits I used where reverse thread.

I didnt want to drill any further and risk going all the way through, as right now it holds compression and will start just fine with the block heater plugged in. I'll do the repairs this summer when I can just ride my bike back and forth until im done with it.

Anyone know the best place to buy the headgasket and such?
figured i'd get the timing belt "deluxe" kit from dieselgeek.

I'll agree with Marty here. Anti sieze and an occasional loosening and retighten can't hurt in getting them out in the future.

Removing the head might not help but there comes a point when you would have to really dog up the head getting it out and you don't want that stuff in the engine. Plus if it's a real mess you'll end up TIG welding the head and re-maching it.

jasonTDI said:

I'll agree with Marty here. Anti sieze and an occasional loosening and retighten can't hurt in getting them out in the future.

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I've found the hard way that if you do put some antiseize on the threads of something like this (in my case a spark plug on my 1995 Volvo 850) you only want the tiniest, lightest amount possible. I got some blowby from too much antiseize on those spark plugs.

Occasionally tightening/loosening is a good idea, especially if combined with a squirt of your favorite lubricant. P'Blaster made the GPs in my NB come out smoov as buttah, but I sprayed them several times over the course of a heating/cooling cycle.

blowby on your 850 sounds cheesy to me how much atisieze did you use maybe just miled out volvoe engines are stronger than vws ...try unplugging the flame trap all will be well as for the glow plugs anti sieze is a great idea a little heat helps as well

Same thing happened to me.I followed all the steps and i also snapped two easy outs sprayed the pi$$ out it with PB blaster(yea i know pi$$ doesn't work) even tried a dremel to ground out the center electrode,then use a torx bit,no good split the end of the gp.Oh well it seems to start fine on three gp's,funny though this seems to have fixed my constant intermittent gp light LOL.It hasn't come on for months and yes the bulb works.I guess i'll have to wait to when i have to pull the head and let Frank work on it.

Its odd, mine runs just fine with only 3 as well! before It would misfire and stumble on its ass for about 3 minutes. yesterday ( the coldest day in Dallas this year so far ) after letting it sit outside for 10 hours with no block heater it started up just fine. didnt miss a beat on only 3 new glow plugs! with my old ones, it would have idled like pure dog crap for a few minutes?????? odd but true!!!!!!

As preventative measure, I replace the GP's every 30k miles (2 years or so for me). They're only $60 for a set. This way they're not in there seizing into place for years and years. Remember, the head is alum and GP's are steel so having dissimilar metals locked together for long periods of time is bad, they'll seize together. I use a very small bit of copper anti-seize on the threads as well.

As for getting them out, if they "feel" like maybe they're stuck in place, go drive around, get the engine nice and hot, then immediately pop the hood and try to pull them - they'll come right out like butter.

No need to pull the TDI head to remove a broken GP. IMO it's easier with head still in the car. If you do pull it though, take the head to a reputable machine shop and let them fix it - they'll have the tools and skills to do it properly without damaging your expensive head.

I use the "get it hot" trick for GP's on mercedes and it works very well. The MB 606 diesel engine is notorious for breaking GP's off in the head, but get-it-hot-then-pull-em works every time.

Mercedes trick! LOL! drive the crap outa her and pull one! repeat 5 more times!

lupin..the..3rd said:

As preventative measure, I replace the GP's every 30k miles (2 years or so for me). They're only $60 for a set. This way they're not in there seizing into place for years and years. Remember, the head is alum and GP's are steel so having dissimilar metals locked together for long periods of time is bad, they'll seize together. I use a very small bit of copper anti-seize on the threads as well.

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I agree completely. The rule of if isn't broke don't fix it will set you up for serious frustration. At the least take out the plugs after 2 years and apply some antisieze to the theads. It can help to keep the plugs from breaking off later.

As preventative measure, I replace the GP's every 30k miles (2 years or so for me). They're only $60 for a set.

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Wow. To each his own and if that works for you then great.

I havn't touched the GP on either of our vehicles, 130k and 147k respectively. Both start just fine on the coldest of mornings. I know I could be in for a world of hurt but will cross that bridge when I get to it. I've heard of hitting them with PBlaster every day for a week before trying, even running the engine hard to hopefully burn of any carbon on the tips.

To the OP - it if was my car, I would leave it with 3 GP working as long as it starts. But I'm lazy like that!

These cars don't carbon the tips like IDI cars did. It's the metal-metal contact that's the issue. I've NEVER had an issue with one that was anti-siezed first on anyones car. I've changed hundreds of GP's too. Plenty of stuck ones on the non-treated cars.

I have been lucky enough to not break any on the 606 engine (Benz). And I do get them nice and hot before changing. But on my TDI that didnt work too well. 3 of the 4.........butter! 1 of the 4 i think was JB welded in

I'm at the point where the head must come off. I see no way around it!
I cant really drill deeper. one of the extractor tool tips broke off in the remaining piece of the GP and wont come out. Those extractor tools are made of some pretty strong metals. I tried going through it but just burnt up 3 bits! ( good quality bits with oil sprayed every few seconds or so)

you can bet your sweet XXX from now on the glow plugs will be pulled atleast once a year and anti-seize will be applied!

The only thing I disagree with runonbeer is about the advantages of cylinder head removal is when there is nothing left to do but drill it out... there is no chance that you will be able to clear out the debris from drilling without problems. The times I've seen it tried, something will always stick into the seats and make a compression loss.

Once extractor methods have been abandoned, I think removal of the head is the only option.

The best way to avoid glow plugs being broken like that:

1. Use anti-sieze each time you reinstall
2. Use proper torque... 11 ft. lbs.
3. Start the glowplug into the hole with your fingers for several turns. They don't get cross-threaded that way.
4. Check to make sure your glowplug threads are not damaged before you install them
5. If you feel the need to chase the threads due to galling or cross-threading in the hole, try and find a tap with three flutes. They are a lot stronger than 4 flute cutters. There's nothing worse than breaking a tap off in the glow plug hole. Also, to keep as many stray chips out of the hole as possible, use vegetable lard. It will trap the shards in the hole and you can retrieve them.

Get a drill doctor.

Trust me. Worth EVERY PENNY.

rah7777777 said:

I have been lucky enough to not break any on the 606 engine (Benz). And I do get them nice and hot before changing. But on my TDI that didnt work too well. 3 of the 4.........butter! 1 of the 4 i think was JB welded in

I'm at the point where the head must come off. I see no way around it!
I cant really drill deeper. one of the extractor tool tips broke off in the remaining piece of the GP and wont come out. Those extractor tools are made of some pretty strong metals. I tried going through it but just burnt up 3 bits! ( good quality bits with oil sprayed every few seconds or so)

you can bet your sweet XXX from now on the glow plugs will be pulled atleast once a year and anti-seize will be applied!

Click to expand...

Can I open a can of worms again and ask you Gurus for your recommendation as to whether the engine should be warm, hot, or cold when attempting removal of the glow plugs ???

I know this has been discussed previously, but the "results" have been mixed...

So... some more recent opinions would be most welcome !!!!

All the best,

Yuri.

I've had mixed results hot or cold. The expansion ratio of aluminum over the cast steel body of the g.p. would indicate there would be small advantage to have the head hot. I've even tried using a freeze can to shrink the g.p. in relation to the head. I'll go back to my first point. Once the extractor route has been taken with no success, I take the head off and drill it.

I also agree that drill doctors are a great asset for those who have trouble sharpening drill bits.

Whether or not you have a well-sharpened drill, you still need to hit the center of the hole and get every bit of debris out of the head. The tungsten center rod of the heater element makes it difficult to accurately center drill the g.p. It takes steady effort and good alignment.

Some of you may scream. But---Ive got two broken ones in the black 96. So--when i got the green one running( was bought smacked)i pulled three gps easy. The fourth,^$%%*. So after wiggling back and forth--and plenty of kroil and waiting, it came out.-So i have another head setting on the bench. I took the drill box over to the head, and figured which drill fit the gp hole. Then i "cleaned" the troublesome hole with that drill bit. Before i put each gp in, i put enough antiseize down in each hole, and plenty of it on the tip. Then screwed them in, one at at a time. I screwed one in, and started the car. Let run just a bit. As didnt want runaway!!!!! And it sped up a bit, because of the grease!!! Did this with each one!!!! You say, it will run down the hole--------------------------NOT!!!!!!!! as theres always compression against the gp----I figure nothing will get in the hole between the gp and the head now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Antisieze good, stuck gp bad!!!!

?Glow plug lube?

My 03 Jetta hasn't had any GP issues but it sounds like your suggesting that lubing the plugs with antisieze would be a good preventive measure. Thanks