Lost Keys. All of them. Please help

I can't find my spares either, and it does not look like they'll turn up. Here' the situation that I'm in:

I can actually get inside of the car since one of the rear doors does not lock.
I could remove the passenger side's door handle with the lock cylinder and take it to a locksmith... could they make me a new key based on that? Since it's the same key, that should work with the ignition, right? There is an E-clip that seems to hold the actual lock cylinder onto the handle, but upon removing this clip I cannot get the cylinder to slide.... am I missing something?

Are there any other / better approaches to solving this problem?

I thought I could just buy new keys from the dealer but they say ignition lock cylinders need to be replaced altogether. That sounds like B.S. to me.

The amount of shame I feel is unmeasurable... please no guilt trips

Key and ignition lock are sold as a set. The doors are then re-tumblered (not a real word, but you understand) to match the new key.

So is this my best bet, then, to get a new ignition lock?

Some brainstorming on your problem ...

riofrio said:

So is this my best bet, then, to get a new ignition lock?

Click to expand...

Am I the only one who thought of a scene from a Cheech and Chong
movie upon reading of this predicament ? Try to laugh about it : you don't have cancer and it's only a car problem
Anyway, I'm here to try to help, so ...
You didn't say what your car is ( this would be useful to know ) but I am guessing it's the car in your sig ( B4 Passat, perhaps a sedan ? ) The body style IS pertinent in the event you decide to extract an entire set of locks from some other car, because the wagon's rear hatch lock is different from the trunk lock of the sedan.
The second generation Golf / Jetta ( A2 platform ) used to have the
key code ( a 4 digit number ) stamped in the front passenger side door handle. It was ( for a price ) possible to have keys made at the dealer, with only this code and proof that you owned the car. I know that independent locksmiths were also able to do this, because I've had this done when the only extant key was too worn to be used as a template to make a good copy.
I do not know if B4 Passats had any such key code which could be found
somewhere on / in the car. And then there is the probability that ( given the poor design of the door handles on the B4 ) that your car wouldn't have the original handle any more even if the handle did carry such a key code. So,
on to other possibilities.
I have a vague recollection that VW dealers could retrieve a key code for these B4 cars when the VIN and proof of ownership was provided, but I could be wrong about this. I will query the local dealer's parts manager, with whom I have a very good working relationship, tomorrow, and post my findings in this thread.
Next idea : find a car of the correct type in a junk yard and snatch ALL the locks from the car. I've done this. It's not a 5 minute job but it's possible, if you can find such a car AND the junkyard still has the key and will agree to this. I can tell you the ignition lock and trunk lock are the most "fun" to remove.
The option of paying a lock shop to re-key all your locks to match a new ignition lock is probably not the least expensive course of action, and I'd avoid this unless time constraints force your hand. The price for a re-key of one door lock is typically $30+, and you will have to re-key 5 locks to end up with only one key for the entire car. Add this to the cost of an ignition
lock cylinder ( and maybe the housing ) plus labor if you are unable to do the job yourself and you can see it will be spendy.
Then there is the option of ending up with two keys for the car, by
paying a locksmith to reverse-engineer a key for your current door locks,
and installing only a new ignition lock. This might not be the worst choice,
though it's nice to have only one key for everything.
But the first thing I'd try is to visit the local VW dealer and determine whether they can provide you with a key code which will enable cutting
a new set of keys for the locks which are now in your car. I'd gladly pay
$100 for this info, because with it you'd soon have new keys and there would
be no need to R&R the lock set on your car.

*** happened to the formatting ?

My post was nicely formatted in "preview", and then this forum
software ( I know, it's the same software used by umpteen
different web-based forums, but it is very poor software ) screwed up the formatting.

I miss Usenet.

No HTML, no photos, just plain text.

I bet LugNut might agree ... I am pretty sure I remember him from the rec.autos.makers.vw.watercooled newsgroup days. And then there was the old VW Diesel mailing list ...

I might have to cry in my beer now.

If you can get key blanks, you can make a key with a file. Put key in lock, turn key a few times, start filing where the marks are. Repeat till the lock opens. Knowing how to interpret the marks and when to stop filing is key. I have seen it done by a locks smith friend many years ago. As I recall it took him about 1/2 hour. Do a search online, I'm sure the procedure is out there. A good locks smith should be able to make you a key by that method. It would be fun to try yourself. You may have trouble buying key blanks at a locks smith shop unless you know him. Try Home Depot, blanks are hanging on the shelf.

Thanks guys. Before I resorted to towing the car home yesterday, I had a locksmith come out and do the "impression" method (i.e., wiggle blank key and file marks), without success. This was, however, a 105 F degree day in the heat of the sun and the guy may have not been the best in the trait. He said he's never been unable to produce keys except with "another passat" some time ago.

Anyway now I'm home, the steering is locked and car is parked on the street, and it still looks like 100+ degree days are upon us. It does not seem "fun" to spend anytime upside down in the driver's floor compartment removing the steering column!! I'll try a couple more locksmiths before I resort to this.

Yes, it is a B4 sedan. I'm gonna drop off the passenger's side door handle with its lock cylinder at a local locksmith today and see if they can make something happen. Heck they can destroy the handle for all I care, if that's what it takes to slide that cylinder out of there. If the key opens the handle lock, it will work the ignition, right??

P.S. DieselFahrer please do post what you hear from your local dealer. I'll call a couple more around here... I have a feeling the answers might actually change from dealer to dealer

riofrio said:

..... If the key opens the handle lock, it will work the ignition, right??

Click to expand...

It should, provided the key you lost did the same.

Remove the passengers side door handle and take it to a locksmith. They can interpret the gizzards of the tumbler into a numerical key and cut it. I had it done many times. The reason you use the passengers side lock is because it isn't used as often and thus less prone to be worn out.

Ok... I'm feeling hopeful again! I will post back tonight....

Took the handle to the locksmith shop and just as I thought they were confused about the lock cylinder not being able to slide out of the handle. The E-clip is off, and according to the locksmith in just about any other handle he's seen the cylinder should slide right out. Does anyone know how to do this?

Lock cylinder removal

I would guess the key needs to be inserted in the lock cylinder before the
cylinder can be removed from the lock. This would be a classic "Catch-22"
in your case ( you lack the key, so removal of the cylinder is impossible ).

But you've said you are willing to destroy a door handle in order to solve
your predicament, so I suggest you do so, carefully, in order to remove the
lock cylinder so the locksmith can "reverse-engineer" a new key for you.
Clearly reverse-engineering a key is the best path for solving your problem,
given that it is possible to do so and will obviate the need to remove
any other locks from the car.

I _know_ that if you remove the lock cylinder from the lock
on first and second generation Golfs and Jettas without the key being inserted in the lock cylinder, the lock "pins" will fall out of the cylinder and then you
will have a mess on your hands. Perhaps VW sought to make this problem
an impossibility when they designed the locks for the B4.

Without actually having the door handle in my hands, I cannot say exactly
how to get the lock apart in a way which will preserve the lock so you
can then use it to make a key. But it cannot be so difficult -- just get
a Dremel tool or cutoff wheel and cut the thing apart, carefully. It is vital
to make sure you don't allow the lock pins to fall out of the cylinder,
because if that happens you will have problems making a key which
works.

News from the VW parts manager re : key codes

riofrio said:

P.S. DieselFahrer please do post what you hear from your local dealer. I'll call a couple more around here... I have a feeling the answers might actually change from dealer to dealer

Click to expand...

RE : KEY CODES FROM VW'S DATABASE :
The parts manager, who has been in the business several decades, tells me that VW no longer has the key code data for a 1996 car. This doesn't surprise me, because VWoA no longer have radio codes for older cars either. This is IMO a black mark against VW, compared to Mercedes, because it smacks of artificial limits for product life ( e.g. intentionally obsolete products) and that is a shameful and wasteful stance for a company to assume. I'd like to have a word with Dr. Piech about this ...
RE : KEY CODE FROM DOOR HANDLE / LOCK ASSEMBLY :
I removed the ( original without question ) passenger door handle from
my personal B4 wagon, and could not find any key code anywhere on the
handle or lock assembly. The codes which used to be stamped were in
a size which would approximate 6 point type, but I saw no markings of any
kind. So retrieving a code from the door handle doesn't seem to be an option.
So, either you install new locks in your car, or you do what it takes to
reverse-engineer a new key using the existing locks.

DieselFahrer said:

RE : KEY CODES FROM VW'S DATABASE :
The parts manager, who has been in the business several decades, tells me that VW no longer has the key code data for a 1996 car. This doesn't surprise me, because VWoA no longer have radio codes for older cars either.

Click to expand...

In all fairness to VW, data storage costs are astronomical these days. A full database of key codes & VINs for older cars could easily run over 1GB compressed. Add in the radio codes, and they could be looking at maybe 1.2GB. We wouldnt want them to go hat-in-hand to the EU for a bailout.

The door lock cylinders are usually less secure than the ign cylinders, i.e. they are easier to disassemble and a key can easily be made if it can be disassembled. Just file the key till the wafers are flush with the tumbler.

DieselFahrer said:

I would guess the key needs to be inserted in the lock cylinder before the
cylinder can be removed from the lock. This would be a classic "Catch-22"
in your case ( you lack the key, so removal of the cylinder is impossible ).

Click to expand...

I think you nailed it right on the head. I just received good news from the locksmith... Turns out you *do* need the key to be able to remove the cylinder, so they picked the lock! Then, they were able to slide out the cylinder, and make a key from the pin code. Haven't picked it up yet, but I won't officially declare victory until key successfully turns the ignition.

call the dealer give them the vin and they will get you a key (i do this all the time at the dealereship i work at)

Antsrcool said:

call the dealer give them the vin and they will get you a key (i do this all the time at the dealereship i work at)

Click to expand...

Called various dealers and they all said this is not possible with my year/model.

key pin code!!!

riofrio said:

I think you nailed it right on the head. I just received good news from the locksmith... Turns out you *do* need the key to be able to remove the cylinder, so they picked the lock! Then, they were able to slide out the cylinder, and make a key from the pin code. Haven't picked it up yet, but I won't officially declare victory until key successfully turns the ignition.

Click to expand...

where did they find the "pin" code for your key, was it on the actual lock cylinder? and if so which cylinder?

I am trying to get a hold of my key pin code, to cut a couple of new keys!!!

thanks

Antsrcool said:

call the dealer give them the vin and they will get you a key (i do this all the time at the dealereship i work at)

Click to expand...

In this case you are incorrect.

But you have successfully added to the misinformation spewed by internet
wannabes, and I guess you can be proud of that.

By the way, it's also not correct to end a sentence with a preposition,
genius.

pbraunton said:

where did they find the "pin" code for your key, was it on the actual lock cylinder? and if so which cylinder?
thanks

Click to expand...

The locksmith derived the correct shape of the new key from the length of
the pins found in the lock. There was no numerical "code" to be found
in this case.

A key finder for those who misplace keys

riofrio said:

I think you nailed it right on the head. I just received good news from the locksmith... Turns out you *do* need the key to be able to remove the cylinder, so they picked the lock! Then, they were able to slide out the cylinder, and make a key from the pin code. Haven't picked it up yet, but I won't officially declare victory until key successfully turns the ignition.

Click to expand...

The above is happy news, and you will obviously soon have a set of
keys which allow you to operate your car, again.

Having said that, I offer this, below, for your consideration

https://www.ikeyless.com/vehicles/volkswagen/Passat/1996/1001552

pbraunton said:

where did they find the "pin" code for your key, was it on the actual lock cylinder? and if so which cylinder?

I am trying to get a hold of my key pin code, to cut a couple of new keys!!!

thanks

Click to expand...

Well, no... they actually slid the lock cylinder out of the handle and "measured" the length of each pin. A "printed" key pin code is nowhere to be found in these locks.

That said, one of the dealers I called did say that on the actual ignition lock cylinder there should be a printed key code. Might this be true??

If you need new keys, why not just copy the one you already have?

DieselFahrer said:

Having said that, I offer this, below, for your consideration

https://www.ikeyless.com/vehicles/volkswagen/Passat/1996/1001552

Click to expand...

That's nice, unless you lost your keys in the bottom of the ocean while surfing

riofrio said:

I think you nailed it right on the head. I just received good news from the locksmith... Turns out you *do* need the key to be able to remove the cylinder, so they picked the lock! Then, they were able to slide out the cylinder, and make a key from the pin code. Haven't picked it up yet, but I won't officially declare victory until key successfully turns the ignition.

Click to expand...

Good going! CMIIW, car locks usually have wafers, not pins, which are used in homes usually. Wafer locks are less susceptible to jam (when used in harsh environment like a car) than pin locks.If you don't mind, please tell us how much this ordeal will cost you, so it can serve as a reminder to never lose my keys without a backup copy.

They said between $40 and $50 when I dropped the handle off. I will confirm this tomorrow when I pick it up.

riofrio said:

Well, no... they actually slid the lock cylinder out of the handle and "measured" the length of each pin. A "printed" key pin code is nowhere to be found in these locks.

That said, one of the dealers I called did say that on the actual ignition lock cylinder there should be a printed key code. Might this be true??

If you need new keys, why not just copy the one you already have?

Click to expand...

well that would be a good idea, it is a long story though, here is the compressed version

bought a key through a group buy on here, was told they would "look up" my pin from my VIN# to proprly cut my key, paid an extra $15 bucks to have it looked up, they sent me a cut key that was not even close to what my original looks like, they said "no problems sent me a picture of your key and we can get it form that"

sent in a high rez picture, being very optimistic about copying a key with a pic, ....and they sent me another key (this time just the metal part for me to put into the rest of the assembly)

and it still does not turn in the lock........................

so now in the end i am out $45 bucks, and still do not have a key, so was hoping i could find the "pin" number call them with it and they can finally, after almost a year, send me a key that works!!!!

and that is the short story, ...LMK if you want the long story!!!

might try looking at the ignition cylinder and see what's up, i have to take that apart for another mod i am doing anyways!!!!

i hope you didn't give them the mailing address where you park your car... um, after sending them a photo of your key.


I've heard that the "key codes" actually represent each pin size inside the cylinder. Dont know if that applies to VW. I was also told by the local dealer that they no longer service the old-style keys, and referred me to some locksmith.

Success!!

Key works with the ignition!

The locksmith was able to figure out the key code as well, so for future reference I don't even need to produce keys or locks if I want new keys made. It's a 6-digit code (first two are letters, last four are numbers).

If anybody need to know their key code, then all you really need is to bring a good working key to a competent locksmith and they should be able to figure it out. It should be a universal coding convention.

They charged me $50 for the whole thing, which includes the labor for picking the lock in order to remove the cylinder. Figuring out a key code from just a key should be a lot simpler.