TDI Used Oil Lab Analyses Results & Discussions

MonsterTDI09

TDIClub Enthusiast, Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Location
NoVa/NJ
TDI
2010 Jetta DSG/ up keep on 2009 Jetta DSG 2006 Jetta Pag 2 in North SEA Green
What kinda of driving do you do? If you do a lot short trips? Meaning the engine doesn't get up to operating temperature so the fuel can evaporate.
 

TornadoRed

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Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Location
West Des Moines (formerly St Paul)
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI wagon, silver; 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, indigo blue; 2003 Golf GL 5-spd, red (PARTED); 2003 Golf GLS 5-spd, indigo blue (SOLD); 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, Candy White (SOLD)
Is this something that could be caused by my use of 100% B5?
B05 should be okay; VWoA approves fuel that is 5% biodiesel, though that is the limit. I think B05 is the only diesel sold in my state of Minnesota, and this spring it will increase to B10. Then we will find out if TDIs fitted with diesel particulate filters start to run into problems.

Fuel gets into the crankcase during the regeneration phase. Just think how bad your problem would be if you had been using a higher concentration of biodiesel.
 

jmarshall

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2011
Location
Ahrensville, PA
TDI
2011 Jetta 6MT
JM- How are you taking the sample? Sucking out of dipstick hole or catching drain flow from sump? Catching drain flow can pick up sediment from bottom of sump, which will skew numbers high.
This sample came out of the drain plug, not sure how the 2 samples the dealer took were captured.

What kinda of driving do you do? If you do a lot short trips? Meaning the engine doesn't get up to operating temperature so the fuel can evaporate.
About 70% around the city, but I am in a very rural city. About 18K miles a year, so I would think I am up to temp enough to evaporate fuel.


B05 should be okay; VWoA approves fuel that is 5% biodiesel, though that is the limit. I think B05 is the only diesel sold in my state of Minnesota, and this spring it will increase to B10. Then we will find out if TDIs fitted with diesel particulate filters start to run into problems.
Fuel gets into the crankcase during the regeneration phase. Just think how bad your problem would be if you had been using a higher concentration of biodiesel.
I know that they approve that, but also know that oil dilution is one of the reasons that higher concentrations are not recommended.
 

wensteph

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2010
Location
Savannah
TDI
2011 Touareg sold to VW 2014 Audi Q5 re-programmed
RLI Bio-Syn 5w-30 HD in 3.0L Touareg

This is my latest (11-23-13) after taking the tuning box off. Results are good and showing no damage from the box. Watching fuel dilute as it may indicate injector damage, but I'm hoping it's some burned on coke that will clean off.

On the middle UOA, I made a 1,000 mile Interstate trip towing a 5,000 lb load and the middle UOA shows the combination of the tuning box and fast towing of a heavy load pretty much beat up the oil thermally.

I reinstalled the box and will run another sample on this same fill in 2,000 miles. I'm hoping using the box while not towing will be fine.

 

wensteph

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2010
Location
Savannah
TDI
2011 Touareg sold to VW 2014 Audi Q5 re-programmed
This fill is the 5w30. The 8/25/13 analysis was on the RLI 5w40 and the 11/3/12 test was LE's 8854 which is 5w40. I'll probably stick with this one. I like the LE oil, but it's problematic to me to have to buy by the case. I can tailor my purchase amounts with RLI.
 

Bob_Fout

Oil Wanker
Joined
Sep 5, 2004
Location
Indiana
TDI
2003 Jetta - Alaska Green (sold) / 2015 GTI 2.0T
This fill is the 5w30. The 8/25/13 analysis was on the RLI 5w40 and the 11/3/12 test was LE's 8854 which is 5w40. I'll probably stick with this one. I like the LE oil, but it's problematic to me to have to buy by the case. I can tailor my purchase amounts with RLI.
I finally found it, Google came up with nothing, had to go to their page and browse for it. Glad to see another CJ-4 5w30 is out there. [currently only Delvac, Delo, Blue Flame, Castrol and maybe some oddball ones]
 

MonsterTDI09

TDIClub Enthusiast, Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Location
NoVa/NJ
TDI
2010 Jetta DSG/ up keep on 2009 Jetta DSG 2006 Jetta Pag 2 in North SEA Green
This sample came out of the drain plug, not sure how the 2 samples the dealer took were captured.
About 70% around the city, but I am in a very rural city. About 18K miles a year, so I would think I am up to temp enough to evaporate fuel.
I know that they approve that, but also know that oil dilution is one of the reasons that higher concentrations are not recommended.
Do you let engine idle for a long time in the morning for example 20 minutes or more?
 

fancy_dancer

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Location
Columbus, Ohio
TDI
2009 JSW DSG
2009 JSW TDI DSG with 131,210 miles



With this many miles on the oil, I plan to do 3 oil changes every 40,000 miles. Do you see a problem?

Thanks!

Dan
 
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TooSlick

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 2, 1999
Location
Dixie
TDI
Audi 100S
Fancy Dancer,

You could probably go with a 13.3k interval, but your wear rates on the last sample are directionally higher than in the case of the previous 10k samples. Changing before the TBN reaches 2.0 also assures excellent deposit control. I'm not sure I see a compelling reason to extend past 10k with these low SAPS oils.

TS
 

caseyfriday

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2011
Location
everywhere
TDI
02 Golf GLS TDI
Just had my first oil analysis done on this 02 Golf since I bought it in August 2013. First oil change as well, obviously. Fuel filter looked pretty ratty, so I replaced it along with the oil and filter, and air filter. My MPG has already gone up 2 or 3, so I'm looking forward to my next analysis.

Anyone else had experience with higher than normal lead values in a MK4?

 

TooSlick

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 2, 1999
Location
Dixie
TDI
Audi 100S
Casey,

Without knowing the previous maintenance history if this engine, it's hard to make an assessment. You do have some fuel dilution which can cause corrosive bearing wear. It also looks like you're using a VW 505.01 oil, possibly Motul or the Amsoil European Formula.

I'd run a double dose of fuel injector cleaner thru the system. I'd also switch to a thicker, API/CJ-4 synthetic in a 5w-40 grade. The Mobil 1, turbo diesel truck, Shell Rotella T6, or the Amsoil Premium Synthetic Diesel Oil (DEO), are all excellent.

Overall the engine looks to be in good shape. But there's room for improvement in your bearing wear.

TS
 

caseyfriday

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2011
Location
everywhere
TDI
02 Golf GLS TDI
Thanks for the info, TS. I'm not sure what oil was in this analysis - before I changed it this time - but I used Liqui Moly Synthetic High Tech 5w40 (from ID Parts) after draining the oil in this analysis.

I'll definitely run some injector cleaner through the system - thanks for that tip! Is something like this injector cleaner okay?

Edit: After looking around, it looks like Diesel Purge might be a better idea. The only thing is that some people seem to think it introduces something into the crankcase that might adversely interact with oil additives. Since I just changed the oil, I won't be doing that again for another 10k miles. The product page doesn't mention needing to change the oil, though...
 
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TooSlick

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 2, 1999
Location
Dixie
TDI
Audi 100S
Any brand name product should work. Just use the highest concentration allowable for a quick cleanup of the injector pintles.

Liqui Moly is a fine oil, but if bearing wear stays high you want to go with a thicker 40wt oil. Something more like 14-16 Cst @ 100C.

TS
 

TooSlick

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 2, 1999
Location
Dixie
TDI
Audi 100S
Bob,

It looks like the repairs went well. Aluminum should drop down into the 15-20 ppm range, but all the other wear metals look fine now.

TS
 

BCRacing24

Active member
Joined
Feb 18, 2014
Location
Central IL
TDI
2012 VW Jetta 2.0T TDI\DSG
I'm not one of the experts, but IMO your oil is not worn out -- that would be the main reason to shorten the interval. The additive levels are about the same as before. The viscosity is down a bit; I prefer to start with a 5w40, and there are 5w40 oils meeting the very similar MB specifications that might work better in your engine.

I believe in 5-40 as well. What do you think about this oil then ?

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_ESP_Formula_M_5W-40.aspx


Sent from my iPhone 4s using Tapatalk
 

TooSlick

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Joined
Dec 2, 1999
Location
Dixie
TDI
Audi 100S
BC,

Some people are using this in newer TDI's and it works fine. In reality though it's only about 5% thicker than most of the VW 507.00 oils. So I wouldn't expect to see much difference in results.

TS
 

bobt2382

Veteran Member - TDIClub Contributor
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Location
NJ
TDI
2010 CW GOLF 4DR 6MT TDI
Bob,

It looks like the repairs went well. Aluminum should drop down into the 15-20 ppm range, but all the other wear metals look fine now.

TS
TS,

Thank you Sir. Any thoughts/ideas where the aluminum and Iron are actually from and why they are relatively high?

I drive in a desert, half mile trip on a dirt road to the paved roads. I really hope that I'm not "sucking" in air from somewhere passed the air filter.

Bob
 

TornadoRed

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Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Location
West Des Moines (formerly St Paul)
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI wagon, silver; 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, indigo blue; 2003 Golf GL 5-spd, red (PARTED); 2003 Golf GLS 5-spd, indigo blue (SOLD); 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, Candy White (SOLD)

TooSlick

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 2, 1999
Location
Dixie
TDI
Audi 100S
Bob,

Describe the repair(s) you just had done. Most of this Al could be leftover residue from the last time, when you had almost 200 ppm. (Chrome and nickel look fine, so I don't think you have an intake air leak)

Thanks,

TS
 

bobt2382

Veteran Member - TDIClub Contributor
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Location
NJ
TDI
2010 CW GOLF 4DR 6MT TDI
TS, 5 June 2013 Prior to the 5th UOA, vehicle was the subject of a rear end collision. The intercooler, radiator and oil coiler were replaced. I'm not sure the repair shop changed the oil after the repair, as those parts were not listed. They did change the coolant. I did remove the OEM turbo Discharge Pipe and install a NEUSPEED Hi-Flo TDI Turbo Discharge Pipe on the discharge side of the turbocharger after the repairs which was before I did an oil change @ 53915miles. 1 Aug. new air filter. 4 Sept 2013 Vacuumed changed the Penzoil @ 57789 miles, so 3874 miles on the oil after the collision repair.
 

TooSlick

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 2, 1999
Location
Dixie
TDI
Audi 100S
Bob,

I think you got some metallic debris introduced into the oil due to the repairs and new parts. Things should settle down with 1-2 more oil changes.

I'm sure you're seeing higher than average wear due to the, dry dusty conditions. Not much to be done there. (As I mentioned, I was stationed out at Edwards AFB in the Mohave desert back in the 1980's.) The OEM VW/Audi air filters are excellent and I rarely see intake issues.

TS
 

Nativefx

Active member
Joined
May 13, 2010
Location
Oregon
TDI
2012 Passat TDI 6MT
Ok so I did a couple of Oil Analysis on my '12 Passat TDI with mid 40k mileage. I pulled a sample at roughly 5k and then again on the same oil at 7.5K. The lab seems to be concerned about the high level of aluminum at 5K and even more concerned that it increased again at 7.5K. I'm new to these oil analysis reports so i'm hoping i can get some clarification about what I am seeing. My TDI currently has 68,500 miles and I am at about 5K on the current Liqui Moly Top-Tec 4200 5w-30 that my mechanic recommends.

Based on these results, should I be concerned? I didn't do an analysis when the dealer was using the VW recommended Castrol so i dont' have anything to compare.

Appreciate any input/clarification!

5K oil analysis report


Second Report on same oil after 7.5K miles
 

TooSlick

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 2, 1999
Location
Dixie
TDI
Audi 100S
I went back and reviewed the analysis results posted for new Passats over the past several years. There have only been six or seven of them. ALL of them show significantly higher levels of aluminum than for other TDI engine variants. So I'd say these levels of Al are simply characteristic of this engine. The one thing I would watch for is to make sure these Al levels are trending down as miles accumulate on the engine ; when testing after the same oil change interval.

I can't give you a typical range for aluminum wear after a 10,000 mile service interval, because few of these engines are fully broken in yet. However I'm expecting it's going to be higher than what we've seen in the past.

TS
 

Nativefx

Active member
Joined
May 13, 2010
Location
Oregon
TDI
2012 Passat TDI 6MT
I went back and reviewed the analysis results posted for new Passats over the past several years. There have only been six or seven of them. ALL of them show significantly higher levels of aluminum than for other TDI engine variants. So I'd say these levels of Al are simply characteristic of this engine. The one thing I would watch for is to make sure these Al levels are trending down as miles accumulate on the engine ; when testing after the same oil change interval.

I can't give you a typical range for aluminum wear after a 10,000 mile service interval, because few of these engines are fully broken in yet. However I'm expecting it's going to be higher than what we've seen in the past.

TS
I was hoping other results were possibly showing higher levels. I'm already out of warranty as I'm currently at 68.5K miles. I currently have 5K on the Luiqi moly so I wonder if I should just pull a sample and then again at 7.5K and then again at 10K interval as is recommended? Or should I switch to another oil and then compare the results at the same intervals to get an idea on whether this particular oil just doesn't do well in these engines?
 

TooSlick

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 2, 1999
Location
Dixie
TDI
Audi 100S
Native,

Well I like the Mobil 1/ESP so you might try that, but I wouldn't expect a big difference. You shouldn't have any issues running 10k miles with any of these VW 507.00 oils except under severe service conditions - specifically lots of short trip driving in cold weather. Just watch to see that the aluminum levels are slowly dropping.

TS
 

Todd_y

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 31, 2013
Location
Vancouver Island
TDI
2012 Golf Highline mt
2012 golf tdi 6m, sample taken at 45k km:



Iron and aluminum seem very high as the comments say. The dealer serviced this car at 30k km, I purchased it at that time so I have not owned it since new. I experienced 2 hard starts recently due to water condensation in the charge air cooler before I did this 45k change. The second hard start also resulted in a severe "chug" (what I think was a slug of water getting sucked into a cylinder, this happened before I was aware of the truly unbelievable condensation/hydrolock problem, but that is another story).

Should I run for the hills and trade this pile in or what? Are these wear metals still from break-in? Fuel dilution in the normal range? The v100 seems low as well... :(

The car is driven 70% hwy miles, the rest suburban/rural commute. Very few short trips.
 
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