For those that have owned multiple VW’s

kjclow said:

For me the start down the VW rabbit hole was a collaboration between my wife and then 12 year old daughter. They decided .

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I see what you did there...very clever.

After 18 month Fort Bliss / TX I had enough money to buy a new 1600 TL Fastback in Germany and that was in 64. That was my first VW and now I'm at 23 (2002 TDI). Might be my last one, since this one runs and runs forever. I hope so!

IndigoBlueWagon said:

Let's face it, VWoA has been lost when it comes to product selection for sale in NA for a long time. I think they could build a great niche market here with the Polo, the T6, Anarok, and some nice cars like the Arteon and Passat Wagon. All with diesels available. But instead they place all their bets on a Explorer like SUV and the Tiguan. I don't get it.

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I agree. I loathe these ugly, bloated Atlas SUV's that remind me of Jeep Cherokees. The Tiguan isn't far behind. The Tourag wasn't bad for an SUV, but I'll always prefer wagons.

They are just giving the north American market what they want and that's big gas guzzling SUVs.
The smaller TDI cars are just a small niche compared to the rest of the world, sadly.

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Caddy 16v said:

They are just giving the north American market what they want and that's big gas guzzling SUVs.
The smaller TDI cars are just a small niche compared to the rest of the world, sadly.

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this
just about every day I overhear idiots talking about buying something bigger "to take advantage of this cheap gas"
I just don't even.

Part of it was it's what I grew up with. I grew up with my dad having an 80s Ford Tempo diesel. That changed to having a new 91 Jetta diesel. He racked up 250,000 miles in 5 years in it. There was a brief VW hiatus for 96-97 in our family, then he got a 98 Jetta TDI. I eventually bought that TDI off him in 2004 with 192k on it.

By then, I had been working at a shop and had the ability to drive a little bit of everything commonly available. The Mk3 didn't have the greatest ergonomics compared to later cars, but I did fit comfortably enough. A number of years go by, I modified the car to get a little more power, it eventually got more supportive GLX leather seats and the more you drive it, the more you appreciate it for the engine's response, the fuel economy and the overall fun factor of driving a responsive car, while not necessarily fast especially by today's standards, it's still entertaining.

My body has unusual proportions. Very long in the torso. There are very, very few Asian cars that have adequate head room and don't offer great support in their seats. And since I've been able to sample a great deal of many cars from my years working in a shop that worked on most everything, I've had a good sample size of what cars fit me comfortably and which ones don't. Spent a number of years as an alignment technician, and as I'm adjusting things to make myself comfortable and make sure I'm in a position to best judge how well centered the steering wheel is I start noticing all kinds of odd little things about various cars out there. And I keep coming back to VWs (especially mk4 and newer) cars as simply having some of the best ergonomics out there. Steering wheel and pedals well centered to you the driver, not too close and not super far apart. Adequate head room in most of them so that I can comfortably sit relatively upright.

There are some odd cars out there with pedals or the steering wheel not quite centered to your body (or SN95 Mustangs that have it at an odd angle so your left arm has to reach further than your right to grip the steering wheel at 9 and 3), even seats that are at slightly odd angles or just obtrusively large transmission tunnels (I'm looking at you, BMW). I get into most VWs, adjust things to fit me and it all just feels right. I do rather like W211 Mercedes for this as well. Maybe not the biggest fan of some of the radio controls and the like, but very much like the seating position and positioning of the important controls (steering wheel, pedals).

Most of my recent visits to auto shows, since I don't work on a little bit of everything anymore, are spent simply sitting in cars to see if I can fit comfortably. If I can't find a comfortable seating position, have adequate head room or I find the seat too unsupportive, I'll automatically write it off as something I wouldn't even consider owning. Unfortunately for VW, this has started to include many of their recent models. Many of them have cut down head room to the point where it's not very comfortable anymore. They still have very excellent interiors overall on average, but depending on which seats and other options, the head room just isn't as generous and I already don't have much extra room to allow such cuts to be comfortable.

Guess I'll just have to continue fixing older VWs and driving them until it's no longer feasible.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

Let's face it, VWoA has been lost when it comes to product selection for sale in NA for a long time. I think they could build a great niche market here with the Polo, the T6, Anarok, and some nice cars like the Arteon and Passat Wagon. All with diesels available. But instead they place all their bets on a Explorer like SUV and the Tiguan. I don't get it.

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The Amarok in particular would sell exceptionally well. Imagine a properly capable 4x4 pickup with a V6 TDI in it. Hell, you can even get them with a 4 cylinder diesel and a manual in some markets.

The Explorer like SUV and bigger Tiguan make some sense, though, and they are selling pretty well. It does appear to be what the American market wants and I can't fault them for chasing after what the average consumer seems to want more. I just wish it meant they were making enough money on those machines to better be able to sell some of the more niche stuff that we might appreciate more.

The real bummer is how you can tell the Atlas and bigger Tiguan were built with diesels in mind and have these super long fuel filler doors and extra space behind the filler itself, clearly meant to leave space for a DEF filler. We might be singing a different tune about the Atlas and Biguan (erm, Big Tiguan, I call it the Biguan) if they did indeed come with a diesel. BMW can federalize a 180 hp 4 cylinder diesel, Mercedes federalized a 201 hp 2.1L diesel, I'm sure VW could have as well (they do in Europe), and it would have been a fantastic matchup with those two SUVs. And that would have been a unique offering.

A semi-affordable SUV with a decent AWD system that gets mid 30s to the gallon on diesel? I think it would sell like crazy, especially since VW had already built up the diesel following it had. They were definitely the king of the small diesel car market in the U.S.. BMW and Merc struggle with theirs largely because they aren't at a competitive price point.

I think after a suitable passage of time (at least 5 years) and some electric car penance, it's not outrageous to think that VW may bring back diesels in selected models. Bigger cars are the more likely contenders, as the economics (and the FE benefits) work better on larger cars. The Arteon with a high output 2L diesel would be nice.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

I think after a suitable passage of time (at least 5 years) and some electric car penance, it's not outrageous to think that VW may bring back diesels in selected models. Bigger cars are the more likely contenders, as the economics (and the FE benefits) work better on larger cars. The Arteon with a high output 2L diesel would be nice.

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Yes, the FE benefits in the larger cars seems to scale up very well with diesel. I was thinking we'd have heard a blip from VW right around now about selling new diesels again when I started seeing what the timeline for introducing "fixed" dieselgate cars back on the road. Figured once all the fixed scandal cars were either crushed or fixed and resold, then and only then we'd hear something about maybe bringing back new diesels.

We're still being flooded with fixed cars coming back to market now, so I guess we'll have to wait until that supply is dried up before we can even think about hearing news from VW about selling new ones again.

I think peer pressure has made people extend their credit and buy large SUVs because everyone’s doing it. Then they’re all in a hurry because they are extended to the limit and have to race around like their pants are on fire. If people had to pull money out of the bank to buy an automobile or pay cash for gas, they would probably reason things a little bit differently.

I was fortunate, I feel, to be raised by parents who refused to borrow money. I learned to drive on a 1969 Ford and a 1967 Volkswagen bus which Dad put a super beetle motor in with a header. Found it improved gas mileage, before that he would give my older brothers hell for putting headers on their cars. He Also had a 1974 super beetle that I learned emergency reflex responses by driving around in snow covered parking lots. That is until he decided not to let me drive his cars any more.

Ironically, the Volkswagens were the first used cars I ever remember him buying. A Chevy dealer pissed him off by not giving him a cash discount, So he bought the 69 Ford. Then he bought the bus for camping, liked it, and bought the Super Beetle next.

When Donna replaced her Mazda, she was set on the-tdi. I fell in love with it when we drove it back from Florida and got between 51 and 52 miles per gallon. It drove and pulled like a car that was much bigger. So I sold the most reliable vehicle I ever had and replaced it with a TDI

Matt-98AHU said:

The Amarok in particular would sell exceptionally well. Imagine a properly capable 4x4 pickup with a V6 TDI in it.

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Hmmm, I already own a V6 diesel pickup.
http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/uploads//14398/2017_ED.jpg

IndigoBlueWagon said:

I think after a suitable passage of time (at least 5 years) and some electric car penance, it's not outrageous to think that VW may bring back diesels in selected models. Bigger cars are the more likely contenders, as the economics (and the FE benefits) work better on larger cars. The Arteon with a high output 2L diesel would be nice.

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I was originally thinking by 2020 we'd start hearing rumors but agree there are still too many cars in lots that have yet to hit the used market. Maybe 2025?

I purchased my first VW diesel (1999.5 Jetta TDI 5MT) in 2014, and fell in love. I bought this car while I was still in college, and this was the first car I did the majority of work on by myself. It was that car that pretty much taught me how to work on cars, and I think for that reason I will always have a soft spot for it. But mostly, like IndigoBlueWagon said, they are like economy cars but nicer! I've never had trouble sourcing parts, especially with IDParts being so close to me that I get most orders next day. Either way, one of my favorite things about these cars is that they are like Legos! My old Jetta was rocking GLI suspension, my 2013 Jetta Sportwagen is now rocking MK6 Golf R suspension and sway bars, it's the best! So many OEM+ solutions available for whatever you want to do to the car. Other than that, fuel economy and reliability! Love these cars.

I am on my 4th VW

2003 Golf TDI
2006 Jetta 2.5
2015 Jetta 2.slow
2012 Jetta SW TDI

Honestly no matter what engine they just provide driving joy. The first two I had a lot of repairs both within and outside warranty - I swore off VW after the 2006 and dabbled with some Mazda 3's and a few Mercedes. The Mazda's were a joy as well never felt as solid as the VW's. The Mercedes (C300 and E350) were incredibly dull and boring so I went back to VW.

Despite the reliability/durability concerns of my '03 and '06 I still loved them. Fortunately VW has gotten much better at screwing cars together so I have no qualms about quality on my '12.

For me, it's the overall driving experience, the Golf platform makes every drive feel special and fun, even if it's just to the corner store to pick up a gallon of milk and a few necessities.

It's the solidity of build, that solid thump when closing the door, the perfectly weighted steering, that great dialed-in handling, it's got that feling of precision and composure that other cars in it's price range are simply lacking

it's the most driver-focused car in it's price range, sure you can spend more on more "glamorous" nameplates, but you're really just paying for name and exclusivity

I know they're nowhere near in the same class, but the first German car I ever rode in was a friend's father's Porsche 911, a early '80s model with the "frog" headlights, it was a 911 Carrera with the whaletail spoiler, when we pulled onto the road, and were squashed back in the seat by the torque-heavy acceleration, I was hooked!, when we carved a couple corners and it handled like it was on rails, I was utterly obsessed with that wonderful car, I still consider a classic '80s 911 as one of my "Bucket List" cars, one of the true 911's with the engine and drive wheels in the back, where they should be, none of that silly front engine/AWD abomination that the current "911" is

the first time I got in my '07 Rabbit with the 5 speed manual, it felt like I was in a baby/slightly detuned '80s 911, it may not have had the power and torque of the 911, but the handling felt remarkably similar, my current daily driver '12 Golf TDI feels even crisper than the Rabbit, probably due to the low profile 45 series tires...

for me, it's the total package, VW just gets it *RIGHT*, the cars are extremely fun to drive, make each drive an event, and do it at a price point that most drivers can afford, especially if you buy used

every time I get in my VW, whether it's the Rabbit or the Golf TDI, it puts an ear to ear grin on my face

anyone who rides in the car(s), especially if they've never been in a VW before, remarks on how comfortable they are, how nicely they ride, and are generally surprised by the performance and handling, they're a definite sleeper.

Mom has been using my Rabbit as a backup car for a while now, and she raves about it each time, it's a refreshing break from her stodgy, mundane, lifeless '14 Honda CR-V automatic

she's even said that if she didn't like her Honda so much, she'd genuinely consider a Golf/SportWagen TDI, but as her CR-V is paid off, and reliable, there's no *logical* reason for her to trade out of it, she'd be trading a vehicle she *knows* for an unknown variable of a new-to-her car.

besides, whenever she wants to have an enjoyable drive, she can just hop into the Rabbit for a few Smiles Per Gallon...

Nice post, but I have to point out that Porsche 911s still do, and always have, had a rear engine. And RWD 911s are still available.

I learned to drive in an Austin Healey Sprite, a classic front engine-rear drive sports car. I also owned a bunch of air-cooled Bugs around that time. Switching to front drive in my first diesel (Rabbit) was a big switch. I still prefer front engine/rear drive platforms, but a transverse engine/front drive car has so many advantages, I appreciate them.

Not only are the 911s still rear engined and rear drive, they have evolved quite a bit, mostly in a good way, but certainly have lost some of their knife edged feeling the old ones had. But they had to. Keeping a 150hp 911 going in a straight line was challenging enough without any computer help. Keeping a 450hp 911 doing the same thing is next to impossible without some help. Given the fact that a lot of new Porsche owners are, sadly, not real enthusiasts but rich guys with money to burn, it probably saves a lot of lives. And Porsches.

Although the old rich dudes in Corvettes crashing is something you could spend hours watching on the internet. I've even seen that happen in person.

I always said at some point I'd have a 911 as a daily driver, but now I think that ship has sailed. They're too close to supercars now, for starters, and I can't get past living the stereotype of "that old guy in the 911." I think the old guy in the Jetta Wagon suits me better.

912E is my want. Much less expensive Volkswagen Type 4 engine, looks the same as the standard 911, and it isn't like I need it to go fast anyway.

Sadly, they spiked in recent years, and they only made them for a couple years, between the 914 and the 924. Even though they sold quite well in that time, many of them were NOT garage queens like 911s often were. And, just like the old rear engine dubs, they chomped through snow better than most anything else on the road at the time, so they were often subjected to bad rust.

My friend has one, it is a nice driving car, and actually better balanced than the 911. It also didn't get, nor need, the big counterweight behind the front bumper than the 911s got (Porsche's little secret, that they needed to counteract the car's tendency to swap ends at the extremes). And, even with only 90hp or so, it'll cruise at 100 easily.

Interesting, so the classic 60's-80's 911's had around 150 HP or so? so it's not too far off, horsepower-wise from the Rabbit and Golf TDI...

that would explain in part the similar driving dynamics...

don't get me wrong, I know that even a classic rear engine rear drive 911 would utterly wipe the floor with my Rabbit/Golf TDI, but my "Butt-Dyno" tells me that the general driving feel is remarkably similar.

I can take corners at a much higher speed than I should in either car, and they both carve the turn brilliantly, the Golf a little gripper due to it's performance tires, but the Rabbit is quite competent as well...

the only other car I've owned that handled even close to the VW's was my first-generation Dodge Neon, yes, a Neon!
Don't laugh, yes the car was made out of tinfoil-thin sheet steel, and was a rolling deathtrap (look at the crash test videos on YouTube if you want to be scared, the things folded up like a soda can) and wasn't the most reliable, but they did have brilliant handling for their day, they were darty and flickable enough that you could generally maneuver your way out of accidents

the second gens gained a bit of weight and lost some crispness (thanks Dalmer!), but generaly handled well, the first gens would outperform the second gens though, they also had an almost VW-like sense of personality and "soul", sadly the poor build quality and abysmal safety performance means most have rusted away or crashed into oblivion.

The VW's just feel *right*, and far more solid than any other car in their price range.

BeetleGo has a 912E. I drove it briefly. Not sure it's escaped feeling like an old car. But that would be my choice, too. I always felt the 912s got a bad rep because of the 4 cylinder engine. And what do Boxsters and Caymans have now?