Calling all chip experts

I've got to get a life and get off this forum before I start acting like some of the lunies/mod fanatics I'm always reading about. Yet, I find I have started becoming more reckless again since passing 40.

Ok,Ok you guys have worn me down with all the fantastic performance stories with chipping.
I know there are two popular chips spoken of on the forum: Upsolute and Wett. Are there any unbiased, objective comparisons between the two? What engine control parameters are changed by these chips. I assume fuel quantity, fuel timing, and boost is tweeked. How much boost is allowed via these chips? What effect do they have on soot emissions? If soot emissions are increased, I imagine this will increase the intake sludge issue(I really don't want to disable EGR if I don't have to). I've read stories of even better MPG and agree this is possible if timing is advanced slightly- NOX emissions will increase. However, it seems this would be offset by increased fuel delivery. Has anybody got over 100K with a chip yet? How do I get in touch with the engineers/designers to get technical info. Are these US companies? Are there other good chip tuners?

Responses greatly appreciated.

[ May 22, 2001: Message edited by: slickfisher ]

I think the Upsolute low smoke version is worth consideration.

There is a low smoke version? How does the power output compare with the "normal" version? And how do they accomplish this "low smoke"?

Gary did a test of several chips and posted the graphs here some time ago. Excellent comparison. He is a great person to ask. You should send him a note, or do a search on Upsolute and put in his membership nuber to narrow the search.

Good luck
A post on Upsolute

[ May 22, 2001: Message edited by: tongsli ]
Found it!!!

[ May 22, 2001: Message edited by: tongsli ]

Take a look at this .... !!!!

DYNOGRAPH, scan and table 90 to 127 HP !!!!

I installed the Wetterauer chips in 1998 when they were the only ones available in the US. I put 50k miles on my car with those chips and never have had a problem.

This spring I switched to the Upsolute chips (and tuning box). As Gary said in his post, even though the power output is about the same as Wett. the driveability is much improved. The Wett chips give a strong burst of torque but then die out such that the HP is constant from 2000-3700 rpm. The Up chips come on more smoothly and you can feel the car pulling all the way past 4000 rpm. The net result is my passengers are far less likely to sue me for whiplash with the Up chips

I do notice that I have to add cetane boost when running the Up chips or my A3 smokes noticeably. The Wett chips smoked less. This is most likely an A3 issue and not so true for the A4 engines - my poor old outdated car....

Another difference is the price. Wett has lowered their price to $395 (I paid $550) but Up is still $325. Both companies are good to deal with and honest. You can't go wrong either way.

D'nardo

Thats just it, I really don't want any appreciable smoke over what one would have with a stock set up. Also if its producing more soot at the tailpipe, then there's more soot at the EGR and more sludge.

Does anyone have any experience with the so called low smoke version of the Upsolute chip?

What about Oettinger? Does anyone know if there are producing a chip for engine code ALH? (2001)

[ May 25, 2001: Message edited by: slickfisher ]

I have Wett chips and I liked them. But I've heard nothing but praises for UPsolute from people who have owned both. I've got a pair of UP chips in my glove box just waiting for the car to get back on the road!

Both are great companies, with great products and excellent customer service. UPsolute is cheaper. That, in my opinion, breaks the tie.

-mickey

Yeah, I thik I'm leaning towards Upsolute. I just caught Tongsli's links to Gary's output graph(nice work)- it looks like theres little difference in power between the two Upsolutes. Now if I just knew how much less smoke were talking about with the 02chip.

Also, I doubt I will do any other mods(after all this is supposed to be a practical business car). I wonder what kind of power I can expect with just the chip. Mickey, did I remember reading that you were EGR friendly? If so , did your chips worsen the intake sludge issue?

everyone i have swithced from wett to UPsolute has been impressed with the difference. i did this before i became an UPsolute gypsy and to this day i can tell you there is a owrld of difference. plus the price thing but that has nothing to do with the performance difference.

we no have a low smoke version a no more, we no likey. we did not sell any so we stick only with the HO version now. i think there is one person in the US running low smoke right now if you go to a GTG you will always see him at the back of the line and covered in soot

g

garretp:

That's unfortunate.

I assume by your email address that your an employee of Upsolute. I would have hoped for a more professional and responsible reply regarding soot emissions. The only conclusion I am left with is that you are either ignorant of the current air pollution problems or you just don't care.

I am now loosing confidence in many of the claims of the Upsolute "contingent".

Hey Slickfisher,

I admit to having had a little reluctance at opting out of the low smoke UPsolute option. I can tell you though, I have had no increase whatsoever in smoke in my 2000 Golf. I do use additives to raise the cetane value and provide enhanced lubrication of the injection pump. The only time my car smokes is under heavy load...typically accelerating in first up a gradient. It also did that with the stock program.

slickfisher i have used both Wett And upsolute in 2 differant cars really see no differant in the chips other then price and Violos gives better service.

Thanks for the reply spoilsport.

I get the impression that some of the Upsolute/chip customers get some type of juvenile kick out of seeing how much black smoke they can produce and the reactions of other motorists. I don't mean to be some type of prude about this issue, but we have a serious pollution problem in the Southern Appalachians. Because of the mountains, a population explosion, and temperature inversions we get smog that would rival the L.A. basin. Along with this I belong to a conservation group- don't want to be labled a hypocrit.

Slickfisher ............all I can say is get a Life and hug a tree . For goodness sake we are all driving a diesel instead of a gas model and You are the one Looking for More power But it has to be a low emission Chip ??? What can you be thinking ?

I thought I would put in my two cents.
I was at the MI GTG last weekend and they were doing intake manifold cleaning. a friend
of mine had only 18K on a 2000 golf that was stock, the intake and EGR were all caked up
what a mess. The thread shows photos you can
look at.
I had my 2001 golf chipped by garretp with only 1700 miles on It and it's wonderful.
Jack.....

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by slickfisher:

I doubt I will do any other mods(after all this is supposed to be a practical business car). I wonder what kind of power I can expect with just the chip. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here's my Dyno results with Only the Upsolute chip. Contrary to what I've read, Upsolute dealers are Professional and more than willing to help. I have no regrets and would do it again.

There is some more smoke at WOT, not a big deal......if this is an issue for you I would recommend you keep it stock.
(SPEEDRCR.002) is with the chip
(SPEEDRCR.003) is stock
BTW my mileage went UP 1 to 2 per gallon.

[ May 29, 2001: Message edited by: speedrcr ]

We produce a line of low smoke chips for the passats / 97- 98 Jettas, all other models have the new motor which uses a VNT15 turbo, rings which were located higher on the piston, they are difficult to make smoke, the need for a low smoke version on the New beetles and 99 and later Jettas is not necessary. Additions or further modifications can lead to smoking, such as a tuning box. Smoking on a newer model is normally an indication of misadjusted pump timing or restriction in the fuel system, it could also be attributed to dirty or leaking injectors.

McCale: Exactly- I do have a life, which is why I have intrests and values beyond hot rodding a TDI. By the way, I've probibly forgotten more about VW's and diesels than you'll ever know.

Valois/Speedrcr: Thanks for the info.

Valois,
I emailed reps for Wett yesterday inquiring about their product. I will foward it to you for your responses to the same questions. Thanks

I quess what I really need to do is experience the effects of these chips first hand. Are their any GTC's or chipped TDI's near Asheville, NC?

[ May 29, 2001: Message edited by: slickfisher ]

I have direct and indirect experience with both chips. A friend who bought his TDI before me (but at my suggestion )got the Wett chip because it was all that was available. He had the typical Wett socket problem but is on his third chip now with appearant success. I went with Upsolute on my Jetta since they were much less expensive and eliminated the socket problem. Both cars drive very well with comparable power. My friend and I both agree that Upsolute is the better product, all things considered.

Regarding the low-smoke version, I must be the one guy who has it. I also wanted to retain the stock smoke characteristics as this is one of the redeeming qualities of the new direct injection turbo diesels. That and low noise are the two things that will turn buyers in the US to diesels. With stock injectors, I never saw any extra smoke, but lotsa extra power. Rene was fantastic to deal with also. He ran to the Post Office at 9 PM and beat on the door to get my ECU. Great service. I have to add that Wett did a great job replacing the bad chips for my friend.

Rene, I have the .205's now and I'm seeing quite a bit of smoke on moderate to WOT. Granted, moderate power now is equivalent to WOT before. Do you think this is anything to be concerned about or is it normal with the upgrade and injectors? I don't mind some smoke, but I'm killing mosquitos in my wake.

Slickfisher, I am located in Charlotte, you are welcome to come by any time. I should have the A4 out of the body shop soon. My A3 smokes with the .205 injectors as well, we'll be doing some custom programming for them to reduce smoke levels soon.

> we get smog that would rival the L.A. basin.

slickfisher if you are concerned about smog then you should be looking at NOx emissions instead of soot. NOx is what creates smog, not soot; and until ULSD is introduced, no cat technology will be available to reduce NOx.

Unfortuantely, TDI's produce more NOx than similary powered gasoline engines and so you are already making the smog situation worse by having a diesel.

If you are concerned about smog, then sell your TDI. Sorry to say.

Chris

Hesh,

So I guess that makes it ok to belch soot.

I am aware that NOx creates smog in the atmosphere.

I was talking in general terms- so don't try to redirect with technical crap.
Rationalizing that it's NOx not soot that is the main culprit realitive to the visible smog we see doesn't mean that it makes it ok dust the windshields of vehicles following a chipped TDI- what a cop out!

Soot has been identified as a lung irritant and frankley I don't enjoy having to wash my hands every time I open my trunk.
I drive tens of thousands of miles every year and I know in bulk per mile driven I will be emitting less green house gases and burning less fossil fuel than most gasoline engined vehicles.

VW engineers have gone through some trouble to create a diesel as clean as the TDI. Why trash all of that if its possible to upgrade/modify in a selective manner that is still sensitive to the environment. After all if we love our TDI's its in our best intrest to make them as socially acceptible as possible. This will help our chances of these vehicles remaining in the US market and legal to drive realitive to emission laws.

Remember these are the only diesel cars currently sold in the States- that could change for the worse!

Valois,

I'll let you know when I'm coming to town.
Thanks, SF

yikes, have not been here in a while.

slicker fisher, i am sorry about my unprofessional atitude here at the tDI forums. this place has become like a family with all of the members and i do get carried away and unprofessional as i have been here a year and probably met more members then anyone beside maybe Valois (but it would be close ). ignore the tree hugger comment as i am the type of preson that recycles post-it-notes and stamps to do all i can for conservation. my soot comment was just a reply as to following many TDI's there is bound to be a soot factor especially if there is a bunch (playing with heavy right foots) and not at all meant to imply that i enjoy running 100% soot out my tail pipe. i am sorry and i will be more professional around you from this point on. oh, and if you want Wett, just let me know as i have a few laying around that i could sell you for cheap .

Slickfisher:

Sell your car.
Buy a bicycle.
Move out of your house - It helps create pollution as well as anything else.
Move to Arizona and live in a Teepee.
Plant a few trees.
Eat nothing but plants that you grow yourself.
Quit your hypocritical *****ing.

I am really disappointed. It's been almost 6 months since I've had to close a thread because it was getting out of hand. Let's take a deep breath, relax and stop personal attacks. Thanks.

D'nardo
moderator