What the hell happened to my car

nsimov

Member
Joined
May 11, 2011
Location
Bolingbrook, IL
TDI
05 Jetta, 13 Golf, 14 535d
Just re-read this thread and I saw the info about the glow plug light flashing. It’s a tricky one Bc I have yet to find anything official on this, but my research and personal experience indicate failing battery. I had the same intermittent issue with the flashing light but no other signs with my 13 golf. Dealer was of no help. I found some info on German sites that the tdi electronics and glow plug circuitry is very sensitive to battery capacity, but there isn’t a bad battery message, code or anything that points to it.
Once I had it replaced (with AGM), the issue went away. I wonder if I’m your case is a combination of more than one things. Before You spend any money on more troubleshooting I suggest that you change the battery.

I had my wagon towed to the closest vw dealer 60 miles away. Received a phone call from service manager. They told me that my car started right up and ran for 30 minutes before being turned off. The glow plug was still flashing and engine icon as illuminated. Tech was checking codes as of 10 a.m. this morning. Just called the dealership and talked to service about their findings. They said that they dont have a diagnoses yet for what occured.
I guess tomorrow I'll be making an appearance. This dealership has always been good to deal with in the past on my old jetta. But since everthing that has taken place over the last couple years things have changed. The old service guy left and his replacement let's say isn't quite
as sharp on matters. I sure hope they don't try blowing smoke.
 

whitedog

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
Just re-read this thread and I saw the info about the glow plug light flashing. It’s a tricky one Bc I have yet to find anything official on this, but my research and personal experience indicate failing battery. I had the same intermittent issue with the flashing light but no other signs with my 13 golf. Dealer was of no help. I found some info on German sites that the tdi electronics and glow plug circuitry is very sensitive to battery capacity, but there isn’t a bad battery message, code or anything that points to it.
Once I had it replaced (with AGM), the issue went away. I wonder if I’m your case is a combination of more than one things. Before You spend any money on more troubleshooting I suggest that you change the battery.
Based on your experience, rather than change the battery, I would try disconnecting the battery a bit and hooking it back up. It's free and probably won't fix anything, but for me and what I just read, I don't know that you didn't have a poor connection on the battery terminals that was fixed by just R&R of the terminals.

Like I said, it's free, and easy so to me it would be worth a shot.
 

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
TDI
2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
A good dose of Kerosene(K1) / D1 is really the best fuel treatment for super cold conditions.
When the forecast says -40° temps are headed my way, I won't hesitate to add several gallons of K1, some outboard oil/ optilube/ 10W, and some anti gel additive to my tank. .

So splash K1 and your good? or splash K1 plus an additive for lubricity?

You're contradicting your own statements and seem to be back peddling.
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
So splash K1 and your good? or splash K1 plus an additive for lubricity?

You're contradicting your own statements and seem to be back peddling.

Lol. I was never "peddling" anything to begin with. I assume that's a bastardization of backpedaling- which I'm not doing either. Like I said, serious times call for serious measures. We know how to deal with brutally cold weather up here. Good thing, because it has been brutally cold lately.
 

Longrange762

Member
Joined
May 9, 2017
Location
North Mo
TDI
15 GSW SE
Just talked with service manager. It was a hpfp failure. He said that parts should arrive tomorrow hopefully. Purchased car in May 20 with 78 miles. Miles at failure 23xxx and change.
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
Just talked with service manager. It was a hpfp failure. He said that parts should arrive tomorrow hopefully. Purchased car in May 20 with 78 miles. Miles at failure 23xxx and change.
Interesting. Hopefully it was an isolated incident.
 

thundershorts

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Location
west chester pa
TDI
2015 passat tdi sel premium 2015 golf s tdi gls tdi b5.5, 2002 eurovan,Peugeot 505 td,Citroen cx25 prestige
I think my golf s just "longranged" Similar things happened, 18f , started ok, drove slowly about 2 miles, lost power, cel came one, then flashing glow plug light, tried to restart,loud screeching from right rear ran for a couple seconds,died, started again to try to get off road, died. Haven't heard from dealership yet but it sounds like hpfp took a dump.
 

KITEWAGON

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Location
Seacoast, NH
TDI
2014 Touareg Exec, 2014 JSW
I just posted a new thread for our Touareg with very similar symptoms to the OP. Its funny I was speculating best case, fuel gelled. Worst cast HPFP.

I also had the whine and wondered if it was a lift pump which was speculated here. I wonder if all 3 answers are correct. Fuel is gelling, lift pump is giving out and starving the HPFP for fuel and it grenades?

Our car started up enough to move onto the tow truck under its own power. We shall see what the dealer has to say!

We had friends with a T2 Touareg (2012). They had 2 HPFP's go on it and both happened when it was below 10 F outside.
 

Longrange762

Member
Joined
May 9, 2017
Location
North Mo
TDI
15 GSW SE
Talked with service rep at dealership last evening. They said pump arrived yesterday morning.
The tech had replaced my pump and that i should be able to pick my car up friday. I asked if the entire fuel system needed purged due to the failure and was told that only the pump needed changed. Anyone else have a pump only failure? And should I be concerned?
 

kevkor2002

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 21, 2017
Location
WV
TDI
2015 Golf Sportwagen, 2002 Honda S2000
Guess its a good thing we have 162K mile warranty on these parts of the car. ;)

I bought mine in April 2017 and have a tick over 30K miles. So far the car fires every morning without issue. I hope you have no further issues.
 

thundershorts

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Location
west chester pa
TDI
2015 passat tdi sel premium 2015 golf s tdi gls tdi b5.5, 2002 eurovan,Peugeot 505 td,Citroen cx25 prestige
Longrange762, please post part number of the pump they installed. Does the part number end in...na? That is the latest version of the pump.
 

ilyago

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 14, 1999
Location
Chatham, NJ, USA
TDI
2015 Jetta S DSG
Had the same problem as thundershorts this week.

10-15 degrees F morning, cars parked outside.

Car 1 - 2015 Jetta 9K miles DSG - made the whining noise, wife drove off, car died on the road 3 miles later. It would start, run for 2 seconds, then shut off. No warning or CEL. Had it towed to the dealer. Dealer had 10 other TDI of various years and models with the same issue - gelled fuel. They replaced the fuel filter and put some additive in it. It is ready to go. Dealer is charging people $199 for the service. If the car was at home, I could have done the same thing myself, especially since I have an extra fuel filter.

Car 2 - 2015 Passat 61K miles manual - made the same whining noise from the rear after start up. This one, we decided to let it idle for a while. Checked in 10-15 minutes, the car is still idling, but the noise went away. Used the car the rest of the day without any issues. Car was fine the next day also.

I am going to try to recoup the money I spent at the dealer from the gas stations or their fuel suppliers - has anyone had any experience / luck doing this? This looks like a potential class action lawsuit issue.

I was using Diesel Kleen for years (mostly for lubricity), but looks like that's not enough. I wonder if the refineries have changed their additive type or quantity?

Does anyone think there was any long-term damage to the cars from this?
 

thundershorts

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Location
west chester pa
TDI
2015 passat tdi sel premium 2015 golf s tdi gls tdi b5.5, 2002 eurovan,Peugeot 505 td,Citroen cx25 prestige
that part is the high pressure pump on the engine. The in tank lift pump has had now two supersessiona, the latest being the suffix AN. Sorry I had the na by mistake I posted yesterday.
 

kjclow

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 26, 2003
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
Had the same problem as thundershorts this week.

10-15 degrees F morning, cars parked outside.

Car 1 - 2015 Jetta 9K miles DSG - made the whining noise, wife drove off, car died on the road 3 miles later. It would start, run for 2 seconds, then shut off. No warning or CEL. Had it towed to the dealer. Dealer had 10 other TDI of various years and models with the same issue - gelled fuel. They replaced the fuel filter and put some additive in it. It is ready to go. Dealer is charging people $199 for the service. If the car was at home, I could have done the same thing myself, especially since I have an extra fuel filter.

Car 2 - 2015 Passat 61K miles manual - made the same whining noise from the rear after start up. This one, we decided to let it idle for a while. Checked in 10-15 minutes, the car is still idling, but the noise went away. Used the car the rest of the day without any issues. Car was fine the next day also.

I am going to try to recoup the money I spent at the dealer from the gas stations or their fuel suppliers - has anyone had any experience / luck doing this? This looks like a potential class action lawsuit issue.

I was using Diesel Kleen for years (mostly for lubricity), but looks like that's not enough. I wonder if the refineries have changed their additive type or quantity?

Does anyone think there was any long-term damage to the cars from this?
Good luck but my guess is that they'll tell you to make ice sculptures. (Sounded nicer than pound sand) It's been such an extreme and fast cold winter for most of the states. Heard this morning that this is the coldest winter in NC since the mid 70s, and it's just getting started. From all the frozen fuel threads, it sounds like the fuel companies were probably doing the same standard treatment and that ended up not being enough.

Someone posted an interesting article from the long haul trucking perspective that the USLD is worse for freezing. Add in a little bio and it gets even worse. Since kerosene is now also ULS, it may not help as much for blending as it use too.
 

thundershorts

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Location
west chester pa
TDI
2015 passat tdi sel premium 2015 golf s tdi gls tdi b5.5, 2002 eurovan,Peugeot 505 td,Citroen cx25 prestige
I may have figured out what the commonality of our below 10f problem is. Most report temp below 10f; tank level usually half or less;loud whine or screech from lift pump; low pressure code; when brought into warm environment runs normally; problem blamed on jelled fuel. For the golf tdi there is net another pump superceded part # ending with...an.After having my 2015 golf tdi misdiagnosed by a typically incopetent dealer as fuel gelling, I tested the fuel myself in my sub zero using a fluke et78dmm using the temp attachment. My pump was shrieking at 7f but fuel was only slightly cloudy at -5f
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
I may have figured out what the commonality of our below 10f problem is. Most report temp below 10f; tank level usually half or less;loud whine or screech from lift pump; low pressure code; when brought into warm environment runs normally; problem blamed on jelled fuel. For the golf tdi there is net another pump superceded part # ending with...an.After having my 2015 golf tdi misdiagnosed by a typically incopetent dealer as fuel gelling, I tested the fuel myself in my sub zero using a fluke et78dmm using the temp attachment. My pump was shrieking at 7f but fuel was only slightly cloudy at -5f
My guess is that wax or ice restricted filters is what caused the shrieking, low rail pressure, and pump damage. Cold alone wouldn't do it.
 

thundershorts

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Location
west chester pa
TDI
2015 passat tdi sel premium 2015 golf s tdi gls tdi b5.5, 2002 eurovan,Peugeot 505 td,Citroen cx25 prestige
no waxing at all at -5f, only sightly cloudy. The pump can be indeed affected by temp. There have been a number of supercessions to this part, two since the car was built. The failure occured at 7f. Won't know vender of pump till its been changed to the recently listed new part as to where and who mfg these pumps.
 

thundershorts

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Location
west chester pa
TDI
2015 passat tdi sel premium 2015 golf s tdi gls tdi b5.5, 2002 eurovan,Peugeot 505 td,Citroen cx25 prestige
That may be true, but where was it made. I haven't opened the new pump box yet but I will report tomorrow as to where built and by whom.
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
Probably not made in N. Korea :). I wouldn't worry about where it's made. Bosch has quality control in all of their manufacturing facilities.
 

kjclow

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 26, 2003
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
My guess is that wax or ice restricted filters is what caused the shrieking, low rail pressure, and pump damage. Cold alone wouldn't do it.
no waxing at all at -5f, only sightly cloudy. The pump can be indeed affected by temp. There have been a number of supercessions to this part, two since the car was built. The failure occured at 7f. Won't know vender of pump till its been changed to the recently listed new part as to where and who mfg these pumps.
You're looking at standing fuel for the cloud and gel points. Movement of the liquid through cold lines and into a cold filter could increase the potential for gelling at 7F. Once pumping, a liquid should warm but how much it warms is dependent on the amount of that is pumped versus the amount in the tank.
 

thundershorts

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Location
west chester pa
TDI
2015 passat tdi sel premium 2015 golf s tdi gls tdi b5.5, 2002 eurovan,Peugeot 505 td,Citroen cx25 prestige
standing fuel is how its tested in lab for cloud and gel. at -15 no difference from-5. If the pumps are so wonderful, why have there been two revisions "supersessions" of this part since our cars were built?
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
The cp4 pumps aren't all that wonderful, imo. I have a cp3 for a reason. But the cp4 pumps should be consistently good/bad across the Bosch facilities in various different countries.
 

thundershorts

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Location
west chester pa
TDI
2015 passat tdi sel premium 2015 golf s tdi gls tdi b5.5, 2002 eurovan,Peugeot 505 td,Citroen cx25 prestige
Had the new in tank pump installed today. will post tomorrow what differences if any were observed. New pump is slightly quieter. Interestingly, there are no codes thrown by a failing pump, none for intermittent,temp, voltage,current, etc,etc., only when its totally gone you get a pressure code.
 

thundershorts

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Location
west chester pa
TDI
2015 passat tdi sel premium 2015 golf s tdi gls tdi b5.5, 2002 eurovan,Peugeot 505 td,Citroen cx25 prestige
No visual outside difference noted, however instead of the familiar hum heard, no noticeable hum at all.
 

thundershorts

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Location
west chester pa
TDI
2015 passat tdi sel premium 2015 golf s tdi gls tdi b5.5, 2002 eurovan,Peugeot 505 td,Citroen cx25 prestige
Have observed cranking time has been reduced as well. with old pump it sometimes was 1/2 to 1 second, now closer to zero.
 
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