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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW MKVI-A6 Golf family including Jetta SportWagen (~ 2010-2014)

VW MKVI-A6 Golf family including Jetta SportWagen (~ 2010-2014) Discussions area for A6/MkVI (2010-2014) Golf and Golf Wagons (Jetta Sportwagon in the USA).

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Old June 8th, 2010, 12:12   #16
dubStrom
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Thanks from the other end of I-70 in MO. Thanks so much for digging into this.

Would be possible to take a new HPFP, modify it with higher quality internal components (cylinder sleeve, piston, roller, etc.) to make it less sensitive to lubricity variance?

You know, even if it failed in under30k miles, but without releasing metal, it would be a VAST improvement over OEM.

Alternatively, replace the entire unit with one that is manufactured to bolt in (connections/mounting same), but has either a different design, or better materials and machining??

An extremely well built unit for $1500-1800 would look pretty d@mned attractive in a few years, particularly if the rate of failure begins to creep above 1%...
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Old June 8th, 2010, 13:46   #17
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This is a pretty complex part to duplicate and improve, I have to think that Bosch and VAG are already on to something, but who knows.
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Old June 9th, 2010, 05:51   #18
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Someone in another thread eluded to the fact that the roller piston could rotate and be riding at right angles to the shaft, and sure enough, I confirmed here that yes it can, there is NOTHING I can see to keep the piston aligned properly with the shaft cams.

And that would explain the strange wear marks I have on this little roller.

Updated original post with more pics.
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Old June 9th, 2010, 06:10   #19
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Brian,
I sure wish I had one to play with.

Is the only thing that keeps the roller pinned in place positive pressure from the aux fuel pump on top of the piston?
This keeps the piston driven down onto the roller?

This is what I have inferred, and why I insist that I will do my best to never let an air bubble or void see the HPFP. This is why I will always prime it with VCDS even after fuel filter changes.

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Old June 9th, 2010, 06:47   #20
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so the little roller is free to spin at the end of that spring its attached to? why wouldnt they pin that thing so that it is ALWAYS square to the cam lobe..

and WOW I cannot believe that the lobe is worn away THAT much.. that ridge on the outer edges is INSANE!

is there MORE wear in the center of the cam lobe than at the edges? that woudl support the thought of the roller getting turned off square.
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Old June 9th, 2010, 07:32   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilhammer
Someone in another thread eluded to the fact that the roller piston could rotate and be riding at right angles to the shaft, and sure enough, I confirmed here that yes it can, there is NOTHING I can see to keep the piston aligned properly with the shaft cams.

And that would explain the strange wear marks I have on this little roller.

Updated original post with more pics.
just saw this thread. Yes the little roller bearing turned 90 on the one that i saw. And so they rolled on eachother for however long opposite of eachother. the little roller actually had a indention in it from rolling so long and destroying itself.
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Old June 9th, 2010, 07:37   #22
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The roller can only turn at the top or bottom of its stroke so it would have to make its 90deg rotation in the short ammmount of time when it is at either postion. I could see the piston turning slightly and then back during these conditions but not 90deg. That roller looks like it has rolled over some small particles and they have been pressed into it.
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Old June 9th, 2010, 08:24   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KraftwerkB6
.... the little roller actually had a indention in it from rolling so long and destroying itself.
Yep, this one does too, in a couple places.
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Old June 9th, 2010, 12:51   #24
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So apparently VW has trouble with camshafts all over the car
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Old June 9th, 2010, 13:17   #25
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Maybe the roller was turned upon initial installation (installed incorrectly from the factory).
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Old June 9th, 2010, 13:32   #26
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Being an owner of a 2010 Golf this has me very concerned. I have to admit that we do have ourselves to blame a little, we did buy a Volkswagen. This is my 6th VW and I vowed after each that this would be my last. I have owned other cars too, but keep going back to VW. Its like taking drugs, your addicted and keep poisioning yourself.

That being the fact does not excuse VW/Bosch from poor design. This failure looks like a combination of poor fuel, poor design and probably faulty pumps due to manufacturing material issues. Maybe they should QC sample their units more, and verify the process of manufatcuring.

Another issue I have is what kind of sloppy filtering system is this. Unit fails and contamination is caused all over the fuel system, whats the point of the filter (good looks). Why not have a water collector also doesn't hurt.

Also if this pump was designed for ideal conditions, shame on the engineers, maybe they should leave the cubicle and have a field trip to the local refinery and follow the fuel delivery right to the station. There is no way any fuel pumped from a station is 100% perfect. There will always be some water, contaminants and foreign trace solvent present. I remember watching them dig up storage tanks form a local station and guess what some of the tanks didn't have any bottoms left.

As I see it we need to start putting pressure on VW immediatly and very aggresivley.

I would alsolike to thank all who are already working on a solution. Maybe in the meantime we can develop some sort of better filtering system that will catch all the contaminants from the pump before a repair will cost you half the price of the car(???). This is starting to sound like the W8 fiasco.
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Old June 9th, 2010, 13:41   #27
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It is NOT the filter. Please, forget about that. The filter setup on these is the exact same as the BRM cars, and they never have any issues.

This is a case of possibly poor metallurgy, undersized roller, or perhaps the fact that the pump piston can mysteriously turn in its bore.

The last part could be remedied with some sort of 'dog' to index the piston at right angles to the shaft so it simply cannot turn. Or make the piston bore a 'D' shape.
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Old June 9th, 2010, 13:48   #28
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Yes I know it is not the filter. I was just pointitng out that what kind of filter design allows the whole fuel system to contaminent with metal based on the failure of the pump.
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Old June 9th, 2010, 14:03   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilhammer
It is NOT the filter. Please, forget about that. The filter setup on these is the exact same as the BRM cars, and they never have any issues.

This is a case of possibly poor metallurgy, undersized roller, or perhaps the fact that the pump piston can mysteriously turn in its bore.

The last part could be remedied with some sort of 'dog' to index the piston at right angles to the shaft so it simply cannot turn. Or make the piston bore a 'D' shape.
I ain't no engineer, but why would one design a pump like this, WITHOUT something to keep the piston from turning? Is there any advantage to it?

It's also interesting to me that Bosch is also the manufacturer (or was the manufacturer,) of the BMW N54 HPFP, which has also had a history of trouble -- though none as spectacular as the failures we've been seeing with VAG's 4-cyl TDI.
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Old June 9th, 2010, 14:09   #30
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Maybe you could add a chip detector in the return fuel line?
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