Best Battery For My Tdi And Why?

Does your TDI have a VW Battery or not?


  • Total voters
    423

HoneyBeetle

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Location
Massachusetts
TDI
2001 VW NB TDI
NOW....I'm overwhelmed.....didn't know there was so much to know about batteries.

OK.....this is what I understand.......a gr 48 or 91 are different in that, according to the chart dieseldorf ("mr. fun") put up there, the reserve capacity minutes is greater in a gr 48 compared to a gr 91.

I'm only comparing apples to apples, that's what I see.
 

tditom

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 5, 2001
Location
Jackson, MI
TDI
formerly: 2001 Golf GL, '97 Passat (RIP) '98 NB, '05 B5 sedan
Honey-
your beetle came with a group 48, 72Ah battery. Just go to the dealer and get the same one.
 

flatlanded

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Location
Saskatchewan
TDI
2002 Jetta
Buying anything from the dealership is going to cost you more than anywhere else. Batteries are generic and their technologies are nearly identical. It might give you piece of mind but there aren’t too many different shapes and sizes available for the same battery group.

Since you do see some winter, CCA's are important but I'd doubt you'd need any more than 750. My truck has no issues with a 650 in -40 weather.

My advice, go with whoever will give you the best warranty and the best deal. Batteries like anything are susceptible to defects and are a wear and tear item. No battery is going to last forever, but if you take care of them they can last a long time.

If you are looking for a longer lasting battery you might want to try a dry-cell, I’ve had great success with them.

Good luck!
 
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HoneyBeetle

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Location
Massachusetts
TDI
2001 VW NB TDI
Powder Hound said:
OEM: Original Equipment Manufacturer (or Orignal Equipment of the Manufacturer) Basically referring to either what comes on the car from the factory of to genuine replacement parts procured by whatever means.

Gr 48 means a group 48 battery. The 48 is a standardized size designated by whatever the industry association that tries to standardize things for all the manufacturers.

VW supplies a couple of different sized batteries. The trick with a TDI is to get the heavy expensive one that will fit in your car while providing the oomph needed to light up the glow plugs as well as crank it fast enough to start, all while enduring sub-zero temperatures. VW, being a euro-company designates an amp-hour (Ah) capacity rather than cranking amps (CA) or cold cranking amps (CCA) which are common in this side of the pond. This disparity has generated maybe 1/10 the 'discussion' about which is better and what battery to get as the 'discussions' about the proper oil to use, so it is a formidible amount of text, to say the least.

If your battery has died prematurely, or seems like it might not make it through the next winter, the most likely culprit is a voltage regulator that provides insufficient voltage to fully charge the battery. Most people seem oblivious to the fact that with the current batteries being manufactured for automotive use, calcium is used for plate strength. This is so that a low-maintenance or no-maintenance battery won't dry out quickly due to evaporating the water out of the acid. (Actually it is disassociated via electrolysis, but that's another discussion.) These plates require at least 14 volts to give you a full charge. If you only get 13.5 volts from your alternator, the battery will work well for a time, but its life will be shortened due to chronic undercharging.

I don't know why Bosch alternators frequently supply less than 14 volts, since Bosch knows that for 30 years (at least, since no maintenance battereis have been around), alternator supply voltage must be higher. Many times, a regulator that specs 14.5 volts will only supply 13.5 right from the box (Been there, done that - BTDT).

Lots of short trips don't fully charge a battery, either.

If you make short trips, then maybe once a week or so you could plug in a battery charger and hook it up to your battery. Or take a long trip (30-40 minutes) once a week.

Check the voltage with a voltmeter while the engine is running. This will tell you if the alternator has a chance of recharging the battery. It will not tell you if the alternator can produce sufficient amps to recharge the battery in a short period of time.

Check the voltage while nothing is going on. This will tell you if your battery has a full charge or not. If the battery has been on a charger but shows less than 12.6 volts, then it cannot accept a full charge.

Check the voltage while cranking the engine. This will tell you if your battery is the reason for slow cranking. I don't know the exact numbers to look for, but basically, the lower the voltage while cranking, the closer to death your battery condition.

Many shops (e.g. Autozone) will test your battery for free. This test is pretty easy. More difficult is testing the alternator output. But to me, if the alternator can't/won't put out more than 14 volts, then something needs to be done, and usually that means new voltage regulator if it is a separately replaceable item (some of them aren't).

HTH (hope that helps.)
YMMV - your mileage may vary. But it is often used elsewhere such that the real meaning is something like, "this was my experience, and yours might be different."
"marketing crack pipe" - that's DB's loving way of telling you he thinks you know nothing and should do exactly as he says after kissing his feet for deigning to comment in this thread. (BTW-he thinks the rest of us are pretty clueless too, so you're in good company.)
THIS IS REALLY GOOD...THANKS for the advice, Powder Hound....BTW, I know it's cold up in Conkid N'Hampsha, I know, I live near Wista' But, you, some others and the Canadians, have a ton of good info.

So far I've learned:

#1. OEM means VW parts or whatever VW specifies is supposed to be in the Beetle, Golf or whatever type of TDI you have.

#2. Ah and CCA are two different ways to measure a battery. The Ah is the Euro way and teh CCA is the North American way. (What do the Mexicans use?)

#3. Gr 48 and Gr 91 are something related to the size of the battery....however, according to the chart dieseldorf put up here....looks like to me the gr 48 has something more......was it the reserve power? I can't remember, put take a look...the two are not the same.

So, which one is better?

#4. I am very interested in the part about the 14 volts from the alternator and why they often don't put out more than 12.5. I'd like to hear more intelligent discussion on this.

#5. I have yet to hear anyone discuss the toll a starter takes on a battery and how one would know a starter is drawing more than it should, thus depleting battery life?

Question: How would I know whether or not I should replace my alternator (other than asking a pro) and is this type of replace an easy job or not for a newb like me?

Thanks guys......I love to hear you guys talk.....it's fun.....!!! :D
 

HoneyBeetle

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Location
Massachusetts
TDI
2001 VW NB TDI
PeterV said:
To prolong expensive battery life a TDI heater is a good thing also.

Come and meet TDIers at the dyno day Dec 5. See the meets east coast.
I have more questions:

#1. What's a TDI heater, do I need one and if so, where's the best place to get a good inexpensive one?

#2. Dyno Day? I've got a black "grocery-getter" not a neon-plazma-chromafied-vacetomied pimp-ride. Don't ya think I'd feel a lil' out of place? Although, I do love my TDI, dings and all. The more I know, the more there is to love!

PS: I gave her a nice 8oz drink of Standadyne Performance Formula today and I'm happy about that! ;)
 

HoneyBeetle

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Location
Massachusetts
TDI
2001 VW NB TDI
I think Flatlanded's advice is Great! Yes, it seems to make sense to go with the warranty. The Interstate battery I have now is NEW, just got it yesterday. It's got 700 CCA...and it's a gr 91...so the way I figure, it's ok and about the best I'm gonna get for $60 and 85 months worth of warranty. I guess my best best is, if it wears out again in 36 months, I'll pay $60 for another one with another 85 month warranty.

If I go get another battery at the dealer for $120, would it last 2X longer than 33 or 36 months.......based on most of the info I see here, I seriously doubt it. So, why spend the money, unless you like the cute VW logo. Six of one, half dozen of the other, I guess.

But, I hate to say it, if the dealer battery has the cute little VW logo on it and it's black, I might bite and buy one (maybe one day), simply because it might look a little better under my hood (sounds stupid, I know). I guess it's the marketing or something that appeals to me more-so than the Interstate. However, maybe saving the $60 for something more important is a better idea.
 

tditom

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 5, 2001
Location
Jackson, MI
TDI
formerly: 2001 Golf GL, '97 Passat (RIP) '98 NB, '05 B5 sedan
HoneyBeetle said:
THIS IS REALLY GOOD...THANKS for the advice, Powder Hound....BTW, I know it's cold up in Conkid N'Hampsha, I know, I live near Wista' But, you, some others and the Canadians, have a ton of good info.

So far I've learned:

#1. OEM means VW parts or whatever VW specifies is supposed to be in the Beetle, Golf or whatever type of TDI you have.

#2. Ah and CCA are two different ways to measure a battery. The Ah is the Euro way and teh CCA is the North American way. (What do the Mexicans use?)

#3. Gr 48 and Gr 91 are something related to the size of the battery....however, according to the chart dieseldorf put up here....looks like to me the gr 48 has something more......was it the reserve power? I can't remember, put take a look...the two are not the same.

So, which one is better?

#4. I am very interested in the part about the 14 volts from the alternator and why they often don't put out more than 12.5. I'd like to hear more intelligent discussion on this.

#5. I have yet to hear anyone discuss the toll a starter takes on a battery and how one would know a starter is drawing more than it should, thus depleting battery life?

Question: How would I know whether or not I should replace my alternator (other than asking a pro) and is this type of replace an easy job or not for a newb like me?

Thanks guys......I love to hear you guys talk.....it's fun.....!!! :D
1) OEM=Original Equipment Manufacturer

2) Ah (and RC) are measurements of how much energy a battery can provide over a period of time. CCA is a measure of how much power a battery can provide over a very short duration.

4) the Bosch alternators i've measured put out 14V- i don't know what powder hound is referring to.:confused:

5) "intelligent discussion" :D if you want to learn about batteries, start here.

answer: is the battery in your NB the original? if so, then it owes you nothing :)
no reason from the information you've provided to suspect that there anything wrong with your alternator.
 

tditom

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 5, 2001
Location
Jackson, MI
TDI
formerly: 2001 Golf GL, '97 Passat (RIP) '98 NB, '05 B5 sedan
flatlanded said:
Buying anything from the dealership is going to cost you more than anywhere else. Batteries are generic and their technologies are nearly identical.
....

My advice, go with whoever will give you the best warranty and the best deal. ...
best deal? not if it fails on a dark winter night far from home :( your warranty won't seem like such a good deal if that happens...

good luck with your choice, HB
 

HoneyBeetle

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Location
Massachusetts
TDI
2001 VW NB TDI
tditom said:
1) OEM=Original Equipment Manufacturer

2) Ah (and RC) are measurements of how much energy a battery can provide over a period of time. CCA is a measure of how much power a battery can provide over a very short duration.

4) the Bosch alternators i've measured put out 14V- i don't know what powder hound is referring to.:confused:

5) "intelligent discussion" :D if you want to learn about batteries, start here.

answer: is the battery in your NB the original? if so, then it owes you nothing :)
no reason from the information you've provided to suspect that there anything wrong with your alternator.
Is it easy to check or test my alternator? What about my starter? A very smart old race car guy I know said replace your alternator every so may miles (I forgot how many miles....50 or 30,000...not sure). Is this good advice? If so, I have never replaced my alternator in the 100,000 miles I've driven it.

Please bear with me:
Alright.....OEM = Original Equipment Manufacturer....The way I understand, using a hypothetical, is:

Say my VW, straight from the factory came with, for example, Bosch Glow Plugs. Then, my Glow Plugs went bad. I replaced them, using the same type Bosch Glow Plugs the manufacturer used. I would be replacing the glow plugs with OEM parts, right?

If I used Autolight Glow Plugs, for example, even if the Glow Plugs were good, or fine or up to manufacturer specifications, I would be using NON-OEM parts, right? Simply because Autolight Glow Plugs weren't the orignial "brand" initially used, or installed in my VW TDI from the get-go or manufacturer, they arent OEM parts.

OEM doesn't necessarily mean it's a Volkswagen specific or "brand-name" part. OEM only means it's the part Volkswagen used originally as part of the manufacturing process, correct?
 
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T_D_I_POWER

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Location
Savannah. GA. USA - Toronto. ON. CANADA
TDI
'04 VW PASSAT GLS TDI '06 Audi A4 q Avant 6-Spd Sport Pkg
HoneyBeetle said:
Please bear with me:
Alright.....OEM = Original Equipment Manufacturer....The way I understand, using a hypothetical, is:

Say my VW, straight from the factory came with, for example, Bosch Glow Plugs. Then, my Glow Plugs went bad. I replaced them, using the same type Bosch Glow Plugs the manufacturer used. I would be replacing the glow plugs with OEM parts, right?
Correct. You can buy Bosch GP from the stealership or Bosch resellers.

The one the you buy from the stealership will be boxed in VAG (Volkswagen Audi Group) box and logo. The GP may or may not have VW's PN stamped on the body of the GP as well as Bosch own's PN.
Once a part is boxed in VAG's own box and logo it becomes an OE part or aka Genuine Part.

The Bosch GP that you buy from a reseller will be boxed in Bosch's own box and logo. The Part has Bosch's own PN stamped on the body of the GP. This is known as the OEM part.

Bosch, Hengst, Siemens etc. are the OEM suppliers to BMW, MB, VW etc. as they make parts for the auto mfrs, but the OEMs also sell their own parts to the public via distributors/resellers etc.

See post # 14 for the difference between OE and OEM parts.

HoneyBeetle said:
If I used Autolight Glow Plugs, for example, even if the Glow Plugs were good, or fine or up to manufacturer specifications, I would be using NON-OEM parts, right? Simply because Autolight Glow Plugs weren't the orignial "brand" initially used, or installed in my VW TDI from the get-go or manufacturer, they arent OEM parts.
Autolite is an OEM just like Bosch is. If you use Autolite, Bosch, Champion etc. parts, you would be using a non OE part, but OEM. It's acceptable to use OEM parts as long as it meets and exceeds OE mfr specs. and requirements.

HoneyBeetle said:
OEM doesn't necessarily mean it's a Volkswagen specific or "brand-name" part. OEM only means it's the part Volkswagen used originally as part of the manufacturing process, correct?
Yes. Not all OEMs are Tier1 suppliers to VW.
Btw, there's no such a thing as OES (Original Equipment Supplier). OES term was dreamed up by internet on-line part resellers, who try to sell non OEM parts for a whole lot cheaper with inferior quality.
 
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tditom

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 5, 2001
Location
Jackson, MI
TDI
formerly: 2001 Golf GL, '97 Passat (RIP) '98 NB, '05 B5 sedan
HoneyBeetle said:
Is it easy to check or test my alternator? What about my starter? A very smart old race car guy I know said replace your alternator every so may miles (I forgot how many miles....50 or 30,000...not sure). Is this good advice? If so, I have never replaced my alternator in the 100,000 miles I've driven it. ...
it is good advice to replace your alternator with preventive maintenance. Things like that never fail at a convenient time or place ;)

My own experience :)() says to replace the tdi alternator before 250K miles. The A4 may have a separate brush pack that can be replaced without doing the whole thing, but I suggest doing the whole thing.

starters typically give you a warning before failure. Any strange noises and you should not delay in checking it out.
 

ruking

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 27, 2003
Location
San Jose area, CA
TDI
2003 VW Jetta, 5 M, Reflex Silver: 09 Jetta, 6 Sp DSG, Candy White: 12 VW Touareg, 8 Sp A/T, Flint Gray
tditom said:
it is good advice to replace your alternator with preventive maintenance. Things like that never fail at a convenient time or place ;)

My own experience :)() says to replace the tdi alternator before 250K miles. The A4 may have a separate brush pack that can be replaced without doing the whole thing, but I suggest doing the whole thing.

starters typically give you a warning before failure. Any strange noises and you should not delay in checking it out.
I heard one of the gurus say in passing @ a GTG, that the separate brush pack replacement is the way to go on alternator concerns (app $15.00 part). I am assuming this runs through the generations.
 
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JetBlu

Well-known member
Joined
May 2, 2006
Location
Clarksville, Tn
TDI
2002 Jetta
Am I alone in believing the 94r series is the best battery for my TDI. I bought mine about about 2 months ago.

920 CA and 765 CCA

cost was more than most batteries, $130-$150 between O'reillys, Autozone, and Advanced.
 

tditom

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 5, 2001
Location
Jackson, MI
TDI
formerly: 2001 Golf GL, '97 Passat (RIP) '98 NB, '05 B5 sedan
JetBlu said:
Am I alone in believing the 94r series is the best battery for my TDI. I bought mine about about 2 months ago.

920 CA and 765 CCA

cost was more than most batteries, $130-$150 between O'reillys, Autozone, and Advanced.
no you are not alone ;)

but the OP has an NB, and a 94R doesn't fit there.
 

ruking

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 27, 2003
Location
San Jose area, CA
TDI
2003 VW Jetta, 5 M, Reflex Silver: 09 Jetta, 6 Sp DSG, Candy White: 12 VW Touareg, 8 Sp A/T, Flint Gray
JetBlu said:
Am I alone in believing the 94r series is the best battery for my TDI. I bought mine about about 2 months ago.

920 CA and 765 CCA

cost was more than most batteries, $130-$150 between O'reillys, Autozone, and Advanced.
I think it depends from where you are coming from, what you wanted to achieve, and the measure (later) of the results.

From your post, I am led to believe you bought the best battery given your criteria, for at least one reason being 920 CA and 765 CCA.

While I do not know your local VW dealer oem battery prices ($119 here), I do know your 94R is $11.- 31. more than the local VW dealer's oem battery and this locale is PRICEY. To be absolutely fair I do not know the local prices here of the 94R at the (type) places you mentioned. The oem battery comes with a 5 year/60 mo prorate, so I got a 38 dollar prorate from the last oem battery and paid $88.
 
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T_D_I_POWER

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Jun 7, 2007
Location
Savannah. GA. USA - Toronto. ON. CANADA
TDI
'04 VW PASSAT GLS TDI '06 Audi A4 q Avant 6-Spd Sport Pkg
Diesel Nut 247 said:
Deka's are junk. They won't even last on year in my Kubota diesel zd28 and they leak alot to.:mad:

If you are going to get a non OEM battery I only recommend Exide batteries.;)
Sorry, I don't mean to get anybody upset here. I haven't used it my self but, heard lots of pos result from the Bimmer forum. However, if I was going to get an AGM battery I would consider Deka.
 

compu_85

Gadget Guy
Joined
Sep 29, 2003
Location
La Conner, WA
TDI
... None :S
The oem battery is just over $100 (I think $115?). Mercedes uses the same battery supplier as VW, and we all know they're trying not to skimp on quality anymore.

Ya, another one could work fine. But I know that if I tell someone to get an OEM battery it will work, fit correctly, and last a good long time. No monkey business required :)

-J
 

TornadoRed

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Location
West Des Moines (formerly St Paul)
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI wagon, silver; 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, indigo blue; 2003 Golf GL 5-spd, red (PARTED); 2003 Golf GLS 5-spd, indigo blue (SOLD); 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, Candy White (SOLD)
JetBlu said:
Am I alone in believing the 94r series is the best battery for my TDI. I bought mine about about 2 months ago.

920 CA and 765 CCA

cost was more than most batteries, $130-$150 between O'reillys, Autozone, and Advanced.
I got a Group 94R made by Johnson Controls for $75 at Walmart. Everstart brand. I don't know why anyone thinks a weaker battery would be better.
 

HoneyBeetle

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Location
Massachusetts
TDI
2001 VW NB TDI
JetBlu said:
Am I alone in believing the 94r series is the best battery for my TDI. I bought mine about about 2 months ago.

920 CA and 765 CCA

cost was more than most batteries, $130-$150 between O'reillys, Autozone, and Advanced.
:confused: OH BOY NOW YOU'VE OPENED UP A CAN OF WORMS JetBlu!!!
Questions:
First, what's a 94r series battery?
Second, (Using CCA as a measurement) Does having over 650 CCA (required) ......or more than 700 CCA (most batteries) affect the life of the battery?
 

T_D_I_POWER

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Location
Savannah. GA. USA - Toronto. ON. CANADA
TDI
'04 VW PASSAT GLS TDI '06 Audi A4 q Avant 6-Spd Sport Pkg
HoneyBeetle said:
:confused: OH BOY NOW YOU'VE OPENED UP A CAN OF WORMS JetBlu!!!
Questions:
First, what's a 94r series battery?
Second, (Using CCA as a measurement) Does having over 650 CCA (required) ......or more than 700 CCA (most batteries) affect the life of the battery?
Well, he doesn't. The 94R series batt is just another batt that will fit w/i his batt. compartment. Unlike buying an OE batt. from the stealership, buying an OEM batt. from Sams, PepBoys etc. you can mix and match so does speak.

IMHO, for cold weather starts, 650 CCA would be the minimum. It wouldn't hurt to have more Amps. After all you buy fuel by the gallons, meat by the pounds, so why not buy a battery by the Amps for your hard earning dollars?
 

kwong7

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2004
Location
Southern Caifornia
TDI
2001 Golf GLS TDI / White
My OEM battery lasted 6 years/120K miles. At the end of it's life, I was recharging it with a trickle charger for about a week. Realizing that it was time for a new battery, I went with an Optima Red Top. It's been 3 years/80K miles and it's going strong. I've never had any trouble starting the car. Though I live in southern California, my TDI has seen its fair share of snow.

One thing I like about the Optima, is the smaller size. It makes the airbox, snorkel, and headlight bulbs easier to get at. Time will tell the Optima's longevity with the TDI. I've had an Optima Yellow Top in my mom's Maxima for 9 years so I have high hopes for the Red Top.
 

tditom

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 5, 2001
Location
Jackson, MI
TDI
formerly: 2001 Golf GL, '97 Passat (RIP) '98 NB, '05 B5 sedan
HoneyBeetle said:
So...TDI Power.....does having MORE amps for the buck affect the life of the battery?
the link i provided in post #38 said:
If the battery is to used in a starting application, Cold Cranking Amp (CCA) performance is the second most important consideration
...
The battery's CCA performance rating should meet (or just exceed) the vehicle manufacturer's recommendation or is best suited for the coldest temperatures encountered in your climate.
...
In hot climates, buying car or marine starting batteries with double or triple your vehicle's cold cranking amp requirements is a waste of money because the extra amps will not be used. A starter motor will only demand what it needs to operate. However, in extremely cold climates a higher CCA rating is better, due to increased power required to crank a sluggish engine and the inefficiency of a cold car battery. As car batteries age, they are also less capable of producing as much CCA as when they were new. According to BCI (Battery Council International), diesel engines require 220% to 300% more current than their gasoline counterparts and winter starting requires 140% to 170% more current than during summer. These increased requirements are accounted for in the OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) CCA performance recommendations .
everyone should take some time to read that link. mucho good info on batteries there.
 

Diesel Nut 247

Active member
Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Location
Ohio
TDI
2002 Jetta
T_D_I_POWER said:
Sorry, I don't mean to get anybody upset here. I haven't used it my self but, heard lots of pos result from the Bimmer forum. However, if I was going to get an AGM battery I would consider Deka.

I'm NOT upset, just pointing out that they are junk.

Also I personally would not recommend a product that I have not used.

I use Exide's in my Kubota's, I use OEM in my TDI, and will use Optima's in my Cummins.

When I had my Z06 Corvette I also used Optima, Because GM discontinued the Glass mat batteries.

I would also recommend Frostheater for the heater too.:)
 

tditom

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 5, 2001
Location
Jackson, MI
TDI
formerly: 2001 Golf GL, '97 Passat (RIP) '98 NB, '05 B5 sedan
I've used Deka batteries with no problems, and have no qualms about recommending them to others.
 
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