Chemical cleaning for turbo vs removal?

dellwas

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Chester Grant, NS
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2003 Jetta Wagon
You probably could, as to the best way, no idea, never had one off and used Easy Off. I would assume you would simply spray it in the downpipe opening, let it work, rinse out, and do it again. Keep working the acutator till it pops free, then reassemble. That's the way I'd do it, YMMV.

C-Fitt2009 said:
dellwas thanks for the recommendation I did that and was wondering if I could chemically clean the turbo even though it is off the car? What would be the best way to go about that? Thanks for your time! :)
 

Tom W.

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mash-up GettaTDI150, 1986 Jetta Delux D, 2005 Passat TDI sedan
It is important to point out that oil does several things- lubricates, yes, but also absorbs some of the excess heat- There is always naturally SOME oil in your bearings- plenty to keep the bearings from scoring or being damaged when you are first starting a cold engine. -So blowing some compressed air thru the turbo should be pretty harmless. Especially since there is no heat involved.
 

dellwas

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Chester Grant, NS
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2003 Jetta Wagon
Good points...

Tom W. said:
It is important to point out that oil does several things- lubricates, yes, but also absorbs some of the excess heat- There is always naturally SOME oil in your bearings- plenty to keep the bearings from scoring or being damaged when you are first starting a cold engine. -So blowing some compressed air thru the turbo should be pretty harmless. Especially since there is no heat involved.
 

C-Fitt2009

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okay is there any part of the turbo or exhaust mainfold I should not spray the easy off in? Thanks for all of your help!
 

Tom W.

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where to spray Easy-off into a turob and exhaust that is off the engine.

Just stay away from the intake side of the turbo.
I would spray into the exhaust side of the turbo- fill it w foam, and spin the turbo with your finger, rock the actuator arm- don't use too much force- and once the actuator gains full range of movement, leave the Easy-Off in the turbo for 3 more hours, occasionally re-filling the turbo, rocking the actuator. It won't hurt anything to fill your exhaust manifold w Easy-Off too, -will help to clean out any crap in the manifold.
I would spray out the turbo and exhaust manifold w some water- I used the garden hose w a high pressure nozzle.
double check the actuator to make sure it is still moving freely, maybe blow out any excess water w compressed air, and then put it all back on your engine. Go for a HARD drive. (I believe the technical term is "Drive the snot out of it")

C-Fitt2009 said:
okay is there any part of the turbo or exhaust mainfold I should not spray the easy off in? Thanks for all of your help!
 

C-Fitt2009

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Okay thanks Tom! :) How nessicary is it that I got for a HARD drive after cleaning it and how soon should I got for that hard drive just wondering if I need to devote a day to doing that seeing as how I need to replace the gear selector assembly, and didnt know if I should wait until after I got the gear selector back in to spray out the turbo or not?
 

dellwas

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2003 Jetta Wagon
The sooner you drive it the better the chance of blowing crap out of it.

C-Fitt2009 said:
Okay thanks Tom! :) How nessicary is it that I got for a HARD drive after cleaning it and how soon should I got for that hard drive just wondering if I need to devote a day to doing that seeing as how I need to replace the gear selector assembly, and didnt know if I should wait until after I got the gear selector back in to spray out the turbo or not?
 

Turbospool

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I read this thread with great interest since my VNT seems to stick for me as well. This sure seems to be a typical problem for a lot of us. I went and bought a can of Easy Off for 5 bucks and pulled my down pipe off . One nut was really tough;( ya'll got any tough nuts?,) and I needed to heat it with the acetylene torch. Got it off and out of the way and sprayed it full till she foamed out onto the ground. My actuator would move 1/4" and stick till I pumped 20 to 25 with the mityvac and then jump open and continue to move a bit more. So I deducted I had a sticky spot. I worked the shaft up and down for the next 30 minutes and kept spraying/adding more Easy Off..... all of a sudden she was free and when I checked/pumped with the mityvac again I had one smooth flowing movement from top to wide open. Wow was I happy! I let her soak another 1 hour and still had good free movement all the way so I gently rinsed the turbo with water, then air nuzzled it out. I reconnected everything and went for a good hard run, perfect! Now I show nice free movement on my boost xguage . I'll let you all know if I have any issues beyond this great fix. Cheers!
 

AndyBees

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Well, it has been a while since I read thru this Thread. Also, since the Thread first started, I have disassembled a few VNTs for one reason or another.

A few comments.

It's pretty obvious the EasyOff cleaning method works!

There are no rubber seals in the VNT 15 (on the shaft). As someone explained, the sealing is done by an expanison ring.

Spinning the turbo with low pressure compressed air will not harm the bearings (as reasoned herein....... mainly no heat and low RPMs). Just don't get carried away! Be resonable!

I would avoid "high pressure" water for rinse....... could "possibly" be a small amount end up in a cylinder via an open exhaust valve.

If you take the VNT off, Wal-mart el-cheapo carb cleaner works quite well. Also, Dawn dish washing liquid and an old tooth brush works good too! Reading the HOW TOs is highly recommended if you intend to remove and disassemble the VNT to access the Vanes!

As someone explained, the Torx screws that hold the brass parts together need to be evenly torqued. Otherwise, you may have one or more Vanes that tend to "stick." It's best to wiggle (operate) the Vanes back and forth once the Torx srews are tightened to make sure they all operate freely.

I think the Jury may still be out on the effects on the CAT!
 

dogdots

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AndyBees said:
I think the Jury may still be out on the effects on the CAT!
No CAT no worries, right?;) What about using a volatile rinsing agent, like anhydrous alcholol instead of water, so if some gets into an open exhaust valve, it would evaporate?
 

Tom W.

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mash-up GettaTDI150, 1986 Jetta Delux D, 2005 Passat TDI sedan
Thanks, everyone for posting your experiences. Glad to see someone as experienced as AndyBees willing to give it a try.
I think you've all done a great job proving that chemically cleaning a VNT does work.

As far as rinsing out the turbo, there is still the question of whether to rinse or not. The people who did not rinse have had 100% success and the people who rinse have 100% success. So, I think it's a matter of personal choice. Personally, I think gentle washing with water is probably best, because the Easy-Off is water soluable. I don't know if it is alcohol soluable. Typically, when a lye based chemical like Easy-Off combines with carbon and oil, it forms a kind of soap, which itself is a type of lubricant. No one from the "no rinse" group has reported any problems with their catalitic converter, so AndyBees experience that there is not much carbon to begin with might indicate that there really isn't much chance you could plug up your cat.


,
 

Turbospool

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Same here.... things boost up nicely .......no issues otherwise. I'm tickled pink!:D
 

dellwas

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Chester Grant, NS
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2003 Jetta Wagon
Got about 8000 kilometers on mine since doing it with no problems. I'm one of the ones that didn't take off the downpipe, simply sprayed it down the throat of the turbo.
 

csstevej

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I also got off the fence and tried this. Yes this worked for me, I have been having issues with my turbo also. My vnt was sticking from mid way down to relaxed position and no amount of exercising with a mity vac and a 14 mm wrench was working. I was in the process of getting all the parts I needed to remove the turbo to do the manual cleaning when I came across this thread and say on the fence:rolleyes: .
Soooooo Saturday I jumpped off the fence and dove in. The only real problem I had was one of the downpipe flange nuts snapped the bolt just below the nut with two threads still left to go to remove :mad: ( even though I soaked the nuts with PB blaster and waited ). I was lucky there was still enough thread left that i could put the nut on with the down pipe.
I found a straw and a nozzle that fit the easy off can and that made it easier. Within 5 minutes with the mity vac the vnt freed up, I kept spraying every 10 min and actuating vnt with the mityvac for about a 1/2
hour then sprayed some water in with a spray bottle and bolted everything back together, it was too dark for a test drive ( I wanted to see the black cloud ) so I waited till Sunday afternoon for the test.
I started the car and let it idle for several minutes just to let things flow back if sludge had accumulated and let it warm up.
I went to the end of our street and foot to the floor and nothing happened.I did this several times, after the fifth time with no joy I was resigned to the fact that I was going to have to pull the turbo.
Just for S&G's I floored it again and WOOOOW a huge plume of back smoke lots and lots of power, then I took the car for a nice Italian tune up,4th gear and alomst red line up hill for about 3 miles.

I am very happy.:D Car has 185,600 miles.

Moral to my story DON'T WAIT FOR DAY LIGHT drive the car as soon as you are finished.

Steve
 
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Tom W.

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Excellent report, csstevej! -Duly noted- go for a drive IMMEDIATELY!
Seabeecm1 question on the nuts- These are locking nuts, If you could find them at a hardware store, you would also have to figure out if they were the right hardness and if they are the right stuff metalurgically- you don't want to have a corrosion problem. Someone with more experience could help us with this question- Andybees?

I really recommend everybody use anti-sieze on the bolts- you can buy a little packet of the stuff for $1 at most any parts place.
 
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dieselfuel

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I'm one of the ones that didn't take off the downpipe, simply sprayed it down the throat of the turbo.

How? Is there a way to load the cleaner through the egr into the exhaust side of the turbo ?

It would be great if I didn't have to dismantle the exhaust dp and I could do it from "up top", instead of going underneath the car.

TIA,

diesefuel
 

Tom W.

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chemical cleaning thru the top

Some have deleted their EGR, and they simply remove the EGR cover plate from the exhaust manifold, spray Easy-Off down into the turbo thru the opening(which is just above the turbo), and then exercise the VNT actuator until it moves smoothly and full range. Bolt your EGR delete plate back on, and go for a "blow-the-snot-out-of-it" drive(italian tune-up).

Some postulate there could be more danger to the engine doing this, as some Easy-Off could theoretically find it's way back into the manifold, thru an open exhaust valve and into the combustion chamber, and if there is enough of it, cause a hydro-lock situation, destroying the engine.

So far, tho, the ones who have sprayed thru their EGR delete plate on the exhaust have had no issues.
In fact, if you read thru this whole post, Dodge now makes a product for their TDI's designed to be sprayed into the exhaust manifold while the engine is running, in order to chemically clean out their VNT and free sticky vanes.
 

dieselfuel

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Thanks, Tom.

Last night, I gave the 2003 a good 'ol Italian tune-up.. !0 min ago, I had my wife start the engine while I felt for movement at the actuator. The rod was moving freely when started and at shut off.

I don't think I have a problem with the VNT. I'm now thinking my lack of power is from air in the clear fuel line.

When the engine is running, I can move the clear line and create more air moving through the line toward the injectors.

Can anyone provide me a good link as a starting point for the "air in the line" problem? ( I don't want to hi-jack this great thread!)

TIA,
dieselfuel
 

dellwas

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Chester Grant, NS
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2003 Jetta Wagon
I completely removed the intake and EGR as it needed cleaning (NOT WITH EASY OFF!). Simply sprayed down the throat of exhaust side of the turbo where the intake bolts on.

dieselfuel said:
I'm one of the ones that didn't take off the downpipe, simply sprayed it down the throat of the turbo.

How? Is there a way to load the cleaner through the egr into the exhaust side of the turbo ?

It would be great if I didn't have to dismantle the exhaust dp and I could do it from "up top", instead of going underneath the car.

TIA,

diesefuel
 

dellwas

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Location
Chester Grant, NS
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2003 Jetta Wagon
Tom,

I don't have an EGR delete on mine, just removed the intake and EGR and sprayed down the turbo directly. No issues with mine, and it's somewhere around 8000k of driving with no issues.

Tom W. said:
Some have deleted their EGR, and they simply remove the EGR cover plate from the exhaust manifold, spray Easy-Off down into the turbo thru the opening(which is just above the turbo), and then exercise the VNT actuator until it moves smoothly and full range. Bolt your EGR delete plate back on, and go for a "blow-the-snot-out-of-it" drive(italian tune-up).

Some postulate there could be more danger to the engine doing this, as some Easy-Off could theoretically find it's way back into the manifold, thru an open exhaust valve and into the combustion chamber, and if there is enough of it, cause a hydro-lock situation, destroying the engine.

So far, tho, the ones who have sprayed thru their EGR delete plate on the exhaust have had no issues.
In fact, if you read thru this whole post, Dodge now makes a product for their TDI's designed to be sprayed into the exhaust manifold while the engine is running, in order to chemically clean out their VNT and free sticky vanes.
 

InfoSec

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Jul 4, 2000
Location
Brighton, MI
*** is "Limp Mode"?

After reading every quote on this thread, I believe I need to raid my Pooky's cupboard and run out into the garage w/ the EZ-Off.

This is what I've done:
-New fuel filter;
-New MAF (probably didn't need to do this);
-New air cleaner;
-Intake is clear;
-No snow screen;


This is what it does (still);
-Runs ok up to around 60-70 mph;
-Runs out of snot in 4th & 5th gear (can't get it over 80mph);
-Seems to want to speed up when floored, but slows quickly, then speeds up, then slows again... almost like I'm pressing and letting up on the pedal;

Wondering if I am having vacuum proglems? *** is "N75", and where is it?

Wondering if anything else is clogged? Intercooler? With what would it be clogged?

Seems that the cruise isn't holding it at a steady speed going up a hill. I might lose about 5mph now. Never did before. As recently as 20K miles ago (less than 1 year) it would run like a raped ape through the mountains in PA w/ NO PROBLEMS! Routinely hitting over 100mph (I know I'm a bad boy), but from 80 mph to 100 mph, it would just take off like a little devil, now it runs like it doesn't want to go past 3000 rpm in 4th, won't even come close to that in 5th, but it WILL run up to 4000rpm in 1st, 2nd, and almost 3rd.

Go figure... Does anybody have any suggestions on what to do next?

Oh yearh, I should update my signature. I have a 2003 Jetta GLS, no mods, EGR is hooked-up, and everything has been meticuously maintained since I bought the car w/ 100K miles on it. It now has 160K miles ( 60K miles in 2 years). This problem has only really come about since the last 3 months, maybe less, maybe more; at least since the beginning of summer.

The car doesn't get driven a lot, but I do try to clean it out from time to time. It doesn't get driven like it did this past year. I drive only about 40 miles/day since the last 12 months. So most of the hard 60K miles were in the first year of ownership when I was driving long distances for trail running events in WV and VA from Michigan. Could all of this nonesense just be a cause of me gaining weight and not running any more trail runs and being able to clean it out on 600 mile trips averaging 80mph? Do I really need to drive this little POS that fast? My Dad just sold his '01 jetta tdi w/ 353K miles on it and he had no problems w/ his car; definitely no turbo lag problems, no 'Limp Mode' problems.

Any help/insight would be appreciated, as would insults, questions, and naked pics of your old girlfriends.

-Mike in Michigan
 

asnowsquall

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Jun 3, 2009
Location
Vermont
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1998 Beetle
Infospec,
Sorry the only pictures I have are of your old girlfriends. :)
When I started on this problem I had concerns about the N75 solenoid as its what controls the wastegate. On my Beetle there were 2 solenoids, one for the wastegate, and one for the EGR. I isolated the two and used a vacuum gage and found I had strong vacuum going into the solenoid like about 20 ish and I think I got that higher with new hoses. The I noticed nothing coming out so I installed a T, ran some hose so that I could tape my gauge so that I could see it while driving where I notice very little vacuum coming out of the N75 ever. I actually took the N75 apart, cleaned it and was able to cob it together enough for it to work. I now had vacuum which seemd to help a little. Put in a new N75. So this may have been the root cause in what got my VNT to stick as it never was getting the vacuum to move and then froze up. My recommendation is to get a vacuum gauge so that you can see what is going on in the circuit.
Good luck,
Dave
 

MirekTDI

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Joined
Aug 17, 2008
Location
Brantford, Ontario
TDI
2000 Jetta TDI
Did this today after I started having issues with the boost or lack there of ... at first I thought that the MAF was gone but than after replacing it with another one I started to remember the info I have read here on the forum and figured it might be the VNT vanes or actuator and when I went under the car the actuator was jammed so after pulling on it a few times it moved and worked somewhat ok for about an hour and than again no boost... I never actually checked the actuator for vacumm leaks etc as I didn't have a vacumm pump but it seemed to work well once I moved it a few times.. so I figured it was the vanes sticking...

So I started reading and found this thread.. figured it is better than removing the turbo. So today I went and got some oven cleaner and a set of nuts and a new gasket just in case.. figured it was $20 well spent.

The whole procedure was not that difficult but a hoist would have been nice.. laying under the car was not the most comfortable... I am not sure if anyone mentioned this but removing the heat shield that protects the cv boot was necessary and made the job a lot easier... and only took less than 2 min... also went I started this I was not sure how hard it will be to remove the nuts from the manifold as they have been on there in for a while especially that there is quite a bit of heat there.

Some penetrating oil and about half hour later I had the manifold off.. 2 nuts came off and one complete stud came out which is no issue as I just reinstalled 2 new nuts and the old stud with a nut on it with no problem after I was done... I was surprised how much flex the down pipe has it moved quite a bit so getting to the turbo outlet was easy after I used a wrench to prop the down pipe out of the way. Just had to make sure to take the wrench out before starting the car so it would not end up in the turbo outlet... almost forgot about that once...

As for the actual procedure I think the hardest part is keeping the easy off away from your skin as it gets messy when you spray it as it comes out and drips down right in your face... gloves and positioning yourself off to the side is a good practice... still got some on my arms when my sleeves slid down and one of the gloves ripped so one of my fingers got a little chemical burn... keeping water close by was a good idea to wash anything off the skin.

I was somewhat skeptical whether this will work not because I didn't think the easy off would work but the fact that i couldn't find a right nipple to use so I can attach an extension and get behind the blades of the propeller... but after spraying the snot out of it and moving the propeller some black gunk came out so I waited a little and started moving the actuator little by little with a screwdriver after some time it seemed to have full movement so I sprayed some more easy off and moved the arm another 20 or 30 times waited sprayed more, turned the propeller etc... did that on and off for about 3 hours.. I also started the car twice to get some of the gunk out.... there wasn't that much that came out but when I drove the car I could see quite a bit of black smoke at first.... and the car boosted really quick...

The one thing that I am still not 100% sure about is the fact that my car seems to have boost even when stationary it didn't seem to do that before if I rev up it goes almost up to 10psi... and when I was moving the actuator I could hear like there was loose rust or something moving around in it.. so I am wondering whether I might also have a problem with VNT actuator as well...

So far the car runs quite well.. other than the mentioned issue but I can't tell yet how long it will last and whether the actuator wasn't part of the problem... but I believe this procedure is a good idea and it seems to work for me so far....

A big thank you for everyone that posted here....
 
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ecodieselken

Member
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Sep 18, 2009
Location
Heart of the Trent, Ontario
TDI
01 Jetta TDI
I'm on board with you guys, I think this is my last resort before having to take the turbo off for a manual cleaning..

Here's the thread detailing my troubles http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=261792

Thanks for the tip! I'll get er' done this weekend

BTW, does anybody know what thread/size the turbo exhaust nuts are? are they M8's? That would be helpful in here so that they can be picked up in advance..hopefully you guys get back to me before noon tomorrow! :)
 
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MirekTDI

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Location
Brantford, Ontario
TDI
2000 Jetta TDI
I think the nuts were M8.. I would just get them from the dealer as they are not just regular nuts, I think they are brass like the exhaust manifold nuts..
 
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