Car won't start troubleshooting

bagger

Vendor
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Location
AZ, USA
TDI
Jetta,2002,Blue
Got ot started today. YAHOO!!! Thanks to your post. It was air in the lines. Followed your proceedure to a tee for bleeding fuel lines and she fired 2nd time I tried. Can't thank you enough. Sometimes all we need is a little push in the right direction and a good nights sleep to have a fresh perspective. Thanks again Dave
 

casetane

Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Location
North Hollywood
TDI
2000 Jetta TDI
Relay 109 problem

I think this is what my 2000 Jetta is suffering from right now. Because she fits all the symptoms right down to the glow plug light not coming on.


I thought for some reason she had air in her because she would crank and crank but not start. I cracked a head to bleed the air out and she started right up after the first crack. It didn't even seem any air came out. Does this some how override the fuse problem or am I looking at an entirely different problem all together?
 

childishidealism

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2004
Location
Louisville, KY
TDI
TDI-PD, 2005, Reflex Silver
I just want to thank whitedog, kermatdi, Gretta_the_Jetta, and everyone else here at TDIclub for how great this forum is. I have been very busy over the last 18 months and haven't been around to keep up with things until Sunday night when I was forced to. My 2005 Jetta TDI-PD died after driving a few seconds of driving. After lots of cranking it would start again only to die. I had changed the fuel filter two months before due to what I thought was clogging so I figured I needed to again. This didn't help, so I hit the forums.

After a search I found this thread which led me to test the lift pump. It tested bad, so I searched and found a howto from Gretta_the_Jetta. Easy enough, now I just needed to buy one. I searched the forum and found kermatdi's site. I ordered with next day shipping and got the thing switched out in about 30 minutes with no diesel spills in the back seat. Now I'm back up and running and I'm sure saved at least $400 over taking the car to the dealer (which I'd never do anyway, to be clear.)

Again, a big thanks to everyone for making this place happen and keeping it running. How far we've come where now everyone with the internet having this resource as opposed to only having your own experience, that of your buddies around the water cooler, and whatever you could gleam from a Service Manual.
 

edv

Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2007
Location
Ca
TDI
05 Passat & Golf
I have an 05 TDI and does not start. It cranks (turns over) but does not start. I can hear the electric pump and some wierd wining sound cominng from the intake area (trotle body). Is there a fuse or a relay, does it have to do w/the imobilizer? The car has been parked for about 1.5 years.
Thanks
 

whitedog

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
Remove the hose where it goes into the intake and look at the flapper valve in there. It should be open. This valve acts as an anti-shudder valve to shut off the air into the engine when the car is turned off.

To remove the hose, find the wire clippy thing and lift the bottom end of that clip. It will pivot on the top end of the clip and will snap into place open enough to remove the hose. (While the hose is out, take a look at the retainer nubs and if they are worn, look at my signature and get a retainer clamp.)

Was the fuel filter changed and is full of fuel?
 

ninobigfish

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 22, 2008
Location
Orlando, FL
TDI
1998
I turn the key I get lights, the engine turns and firers but the car will not turn on. After ten minutes the car will turn on it will smoke a lot white smoke. Then it will run fine. If I turn off and turn on back wile the car is hot it will turn on fine. If I let it cool it will take a wile to turn on again.
 

whitedog

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
Sounds like you need to start looking for an air leak in your fuel ytstem.

I wish we had a comprehensive air leak troubleshooting guide here.
 

ninobigfish

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 22, 2008
Location
Orlando, FL
TDI
1998
Glow plug system fusible

whitedog said:

The basics.

The fuel being injected is controlled by the computer, but the computer needs electricity to run.

Troubleshooting.

This is easy. Turn the key to "ON" and watch the glow plug light. It looks something like this:



If the some lights come on but the Glow plug light does not come on you have a relay 109 problem. If NO lights come on, you have a power problem so start at the battery and start checking.

The earlier cars had a bad problem with the main power relay which is numbered 109 in the relay panel. The original relay was black, and the updated one is gray.

This relay supplies power to lots of stuff including the main computer. If this relay fails, it is just like the key was turned off. The thing is that the problem is a bad solder joint that opens and closes with heat. Often if you let the car sit for a bit, it will cool back down and that crack will close and you can run again until it heats up enough to open that crack. Some people have had luck opening the relay and resoldering the cracked joints, others have been able to test it by jumpering the two large terminals in the relay holder using a piece of wire. Use caution with any temporary repairs or don't drive very far from a fire station.

Check to see if yours is black. If it is, this is a very high failure rate item so it is safe to assume that's the problem and either fix the black relay if you are capable or just drop the $10 and buy a new one. If it isn’t the problem now, it will be in the future, so this is worth replacing.

Here are a couple of old posts about it:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=199038

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=35854

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=300195&postcount=1

It’s also possible that the engine will die and not restart, or it may just not start. Just remember to look for that tell-tale glow plug light on the dash.

If the glow plug light comes on, see #4 below.
Also check the fusible link for the glow plugs. Is not located under the dash inside the cabin of the car is located in a box to the left of the coolant tank.
 

chariotdriver

Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2008
Location
Texas
TDI
2003 Jetta
Help Please - Just died going home

First, thanks for all the great information, I have been using this thread for two days troubleshooting my Jetta. It's a 2003 TDI and it dies on the way home, was going about 40mph and suddenly the engine lost power, shuttered and died. There were no indications of missing or poor performance leading up to this event. When I first tried to restart, it sounded like there was a couple of cylinders firing, then nothing sounded like a cylinder firing. Had it towed home and so far I have checked the fuel line to the injector pump, fuel was in the line. It's a black hose so I could not see the air bubble. Checked the fuel shut-off valve, it's working, checked the ASV, it's working, the glow plug light does come on for a few seconds when the key is in the ON position, loosened the nut on #1 injector, cranked the engine and no fuel was ejected, but some fuel was in the line when the nut was loosened. The engine has 97,000 miles, was going to replace the timing belt at 100k, but I have been told they last for 150k. Scanned for codes but none show up, the ECU seems to be working okay with a scan tool.
Anyone have other ideas or been in this situation?
Thanks
Dan H.
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
Going past 100k on the timing belt is playing Russian Roullette with your engine. For 1 cent a mile or less, it is not worth the gamble to prolong it.
The fact that no fuel came out of the injector seems key. It should squirt out under high pressure.

So I would concentrate on the fuel side.

Replace the fuel filter, vacuum drag the fuel lines full, bleed your injectors.

DanG
 

chariotdriver

Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2008
Location
Texas
TDI
2003 Jetta
Thanks Dan. I'll change the filter tomorrow and see if that helps, but there was fuel in the line between the filter and the injector pump, I would have thought the pump would have sucked all the fuel out, but I'm new to Diesels so and accepting all advice.

Dan H
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
It is quite possible to have enough air in the line to cause problems, and still have fuel.

If you do not get fuel out of your injector lines when you crank the engine, something is wrong with the fuel delivery system.

Do you know about the need to use a vacuum pump and refill the filter and fuel lines? Then crack the injector lines until you get solid fuel out?

You should be able to pull fuel out of the tank through your fuel filter with only about 4 inches of mercury vacuum.

If you have a leaky fuel line, it can let air into the fuel system and prevent the pump from being able to suck fuel from the tank. It'll suck in air instead.
 

chariotdriver

Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2008
Location
Texas
TDI
2003 Jetta
I bought a small handheld vacuum pump at Autozone today. Checked the draw through the fuel filter, fuel flows at 1-2 in/Hg easily. So I don’t think there is a leak from the filter on back. I filled to fuel line going to the injector pump with Diesel and cranked the engine but still nothing. Has anyone ever heard of the fuel shutoff valve not working even though it makes a solid ‘click’ when powered on?
 

chariotdriver

Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2008
Location
Texas
TDI
2003 Jetta
No, only on the fuel filter outlet. I did notice then when I was trying to fill the hose from the fliter to the injector pump that the fluid level kept going down ever time I filled it up, I was holding the hose up vertical and adding Diesel through a smaller hose. I finally realized that the fluid must be going out the exit hose on the pump since there was no fuel leaking that I could detect. Is this normal? Do you think I still need to test with a pump on the fuel exit hose of the injector pump? Should the fuel flow through the pump easily?

Thanks

Dan H
 

ninobigfish

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 22, 2008
Location
Orlando, FL
TDI
1998
I need help here. Car wont start. lights come on, sound, engine turns and no fire.
No on/off glow plug light ; changed relay 109; still no on/off glow plug light; changed fusible link for glow plug; still no no/off plug light;
What should I check next?
Is there any other fuse to check?
Do 1998 Jetta TDI have an additional fuse box under the battery?
Do 1998 Jetta TDI have the shut off valve? because I can not find it on this car!
 

rdkern

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 21, 2004
Location
Humboldt Co CA
TDI
Passat 1997 silver (sold after 11 years), Jetta 2000 atlantic blue
(1) are you sure one of the relay 109's is good?
(2) there are a couple of fuses in the engine compartment, none under the battery that I know of. Don't know of any fuses that would give you this problem.
(3) no shut-off valve.
 

rdkern

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 21, 2004
Location
Humboldt Co CA
TDI
Passat 1997 silver (sold after 11 years), Jetta 2000 atlantic blue
Based on the diagram on the relay109, check to see if it gets power when you turn on the key. You might also check the relay to see if it "clicks" when you power it up with a couple of wires on your battery. Confirm that's working, or not working, first.

That gp light coming on at first has nothing to do with the gps actually working. It has to do with the ecu getting power and testing the gp circuit. It appears your ecu isn't getting power.

Do you have any friends with functioning cars? Swap out a known working 109 to make sure that isn't the problem. When was the last time the car worked?
 

whitedog

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
You need to do some electrical troubleshooting with a Digital Volt/Ohm Meter (DVOM). No poking of wires and no light allowed. You want to do like RD said and check for power to the main pin on the 109 relay, then check for power to the signal side of that relay. This won't be easy, but you need to know what is going on here. Do you have power to the relay and do you have a signal to the relay?
 

ninobigfish

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 22, 2008
Location
Orlando, FL
TDI
1998
When I plug in the 109 relay I hear a click on the engine. I will test the 109 relay. The last time the car worked was on the morning of August 25. 32 hrs ago.

Tell me if water gets to the air filter and then suck to the engine and then to the combustion chamber what could be damaged? Glow plugs? Injectors?
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
If too much water gets in (an ounce?), you get a hydraulic lock and bend connecting rods. Blow head gaskets, bend and break stuff.

A little mist or a few drops usually will hurt nothing.

DanG
 

rdkern

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 21, 2004
Location
Humboldt Co CA
TDI
Passat 1997 silver (sold after 11 years), Jetta 2000 atlantic blue
ninobigfish said:
Tell me if water gets to the air filter and then suck to the engine and then to the combustion chamber what could be damaged? Glow plugs? Injectors?
Anything more you want to tell us here? Is the air filter really soaked? If you went through a big puddle and got enough water into the intake to cause problems, you'd know it pretty quickly. Like the car would make funny sounds and stop.

Hydrolock is pretty much a reason to have some serious bonding with your car. Get familiar with the block and pistons and such.
 

ninobigfish

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 22, 2008
Location
Orlando, FL
TDI
1998
Question,
According to 1993-1998 VW Golf & Jetta Haynes
Relay 109 or # 3 on the fuse box is fuel injection/ignition system relay
Relay ??? or # 12 on the fuse box is preheating system relay
Please clarify.
 

conejo_a_cuatro

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2004
Location
Bryn Mawr, PA
TDI
2001 Golf GLS Silver, 2011 JSW Manual - Bought Back. Now 328d Wagon.
OK, I got a stumper. I've been gone all summer, so I haven't been able to work on this, but I'll be back next week, so if y'all can offer any advice I'll be able to try it when I get back. 2001 Golf, about 165K miles, 5 Speed. I started having this problem a few months ago, but it steadily got worse and worse. Basicly, when the weather is HOT, not cold, the car won't start. Moreover, when I start it in the morning, she fires right up, but if I drive for a while, then park the car, then come back after a few minutes, bubkis. The engine turns over easily, the battery is about 6 months old. I do get a regular CEL, but it says it's the coolant glow plug intermittent, which in 90-degree weather, shouldn't be giving me any grief. I've checked the anti-shudder valve, it's working properly. The folks in the Portland Diesel Fuel Injection told me to remove the pin from the cut-off solenoid, but there is no change in behavior. My last thought is to replace the fuel temp sender in the IP, does this sound like a good move? Any other ideas? I have a few bubbles in the fuel line, but nothing out of the ordinary. Please let me know if y'all have any ideas.
 
Joined
May 6, 2006
Location
Hillsborough, NC
TDI
2001 Jetta 171000
Engine would not start

This is an amazing site, and this has been a very helpful sticky. I searched through this thread and the articles for hours because my 2001 Jetta would not start. I got the lights on the dash, but only a faint clicking and no crank. After busting out the VM and testing the battery, checking every fuse, testing every relay in the car, testing the clutch position switch, trying to tap the starter solenoid, even trying to bypass the ignition switch I continued to have no luck. The real kick in the pants was that all the electronics were checking out ok. Upon removing the battery box in preparation to tear the starter out, I noticed there was a very thick wire that connected the solenoid to the starter itself, and it was severed! Wish I had seen it earlier, but better late than never. It is a thick braid of many many small copper wires that at least on my car had no protective sleeve, and it had corroded to the point that it turned to dust in my fingers. I was able to replace this section of wire without removing the starter nor solenoid, and it fixed the problem. Maybe this can be of use to some, one last thing to check, though it may be a fluke on mine.
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
I have read of at least 3 cases very similar to yours in the last 15 months.

But I thought the sticky would catch it.

Now that you have found it would you re-read the thread and offer the correct place to alter or add some words?

Whitedog is always eager to improve this thread.

DanG
 
Joined
May 6, 2006
Location
Hillsborough, NC
TDI
2001 Jetta 171000
Re DanG

DanG144 said:
I have read of at least 3 cases very similar to yours in the last 15 months.

But I thought the sticky would catch it.

Now that you have found it would you re-read the thread and offer the correct place to alter or add some words?

Whitedog is always eager to improve this thread.

DanG
This piece of info about the corroded wire would fit into #4 on Whitedog's initial list of symptoms. I do not know how to notify him other than posting here. If there is another way please let me know.
 

rdkern

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 21, 2004
Location
Humboldt Co CA
TDI
Passat 1997 silver (sold after 11 years), Jetta 2000 atlantic blue
With your volt meter, check the voltage at the battery when someone is turning the key to start it. If it drops below 11 or so, the battery is bad. What's the voltage with no load? Should be 12.5. Have you tried to charge the battery?
 
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