Chemical cleaning for turbo vs removal?

DaPope

New member
Joined
Mar 21, 2017
Location
USA
TDI
2004 Jetta
I read through this whole thing and didn't see any clear/simple instructions for how/where to insert the hose for a top down process going through where the EGR is.
 

Fahrvegnugen

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2017
Location
Burlington Vt
TDI
01 golf 1.9 alh gls silver
Read somewhere in here, from memory, that you can take the elbow off egr and stick a hose down until it hits the bottom. Then ezoff it with the hose hooked to can. I crawled under and removed the turbo exhaust pipe for a spray. It is a toxic disaster. It cured limp mode but If i was to do it again, I'd just take off the intake mani and exhaust mani of turbo from the top, then remove turbo and clean everything. Just spraying into the turbo destroyed my neck and slathered me in chemicals. I still ordered a turbo after all that. If the turbo needs a cleaning, in my case, everything in between did too.
 

lapse

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2003
Location
Toronto, ON.
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI, 2003 Golf TDI
I did this today on my wife's Golf. The actuator rod wouldn't move until I knocked it with a BF screwdriver and hammer. It had about 1/8" of movement after that.

I removed my EGR block off plate and dumped lemon scented Easy Off Heavy Duty Oven Cleaner down the port with a bent straw and safety squints.

I worked the actuator up and down with a vacuum pump connected to the N75 end of the vacuum tube going to the actuator. When releasing the vacuum, I'd yank up on the actuator rod with my fingers.

After starting up the car, I was billowing a bit of lemon scent out the tail pipe. Pretty neat and most of the power band was back, but I could feel it sticking a bit near the top end.
 

dellwas

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2004
Location
Chester Grant, NS
TDI
2003 Jetta Wagon
Well did the EO again. This makes it round 3 and again success. Had a steering rack go out and didn't have time to replace it, so it sat for 2 months before it was addressed. Got the p1556 code again after replacing the rack, so knew it was time for a cleaning again. Bought EO in the spray bottle, and a can too. Used 3/4 of the liquid, followed by 1/4 of the can. Let it sit for 5 hours in the hot Nova Scotia sun, bumping it once in a while, roughly once every hour or so. I did the same procedure as last time, disconnected the flex house off the EGR/cooler and used a 3/8 plastic tube down the turbo intake throat, squeezing the liquid down it, then used a funnel that the tube fit on, for the spray. EO worked like a champ. In fact I believe it worked better than the last two times. Car has an impressive amount of power now, and has 372k on the clock.
 
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eddie_1

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2004
Location
Hannover, Germany formerly Toronto & NY
TDI
Jetta Wagon 2003 TDI tuned to 170HP, A6 Wagon 2008 TDI 2.7L tuned to 340HP
My VNT 17/22 had not been reaching maximum requested boost for almost 2 years. Prior to that it had also been irregular from too much town running but I could take it out on the Autobahn and floor it to 120-140mph and it would clear up. However about 2 years ago from even more town running it suddenly would no longer clear up even from high EGTs on the Autobahn. My attempt to clear it only would get it up to about maximum 24psi instead of requested 28psi. Well, I recently went for the oven cleaner solution. With an adapter hose I sprayed down the EGR port. The first time around I tried to follow the video exactly, however it turned out the time to let soak and exercise the actuator was not enough and it appeared the vanes were still not able to fully close to build the last 4psi. The missing 4psi would also cause some smoke on the Autobahn. With the 2nd attempt I tried a different oven cleaner and let soak for about 7 hours. This time I also exercised the actuator from the hose directly at the N75 periodically (rule out any vacuum leaks from N75 on) over the entire 7 hours with the mighty vac to 18psi while feeling the movement of the actuator and sprayed down the egr port repeatedly until the foam reappeared. This time the drive afterwards turned out to be a lot of fun. :D Initially flooring it on the Autobahn caused sparks to come out of the exhaust for about 5 mins until all the crud had burnt off. At the end of it the stable 28psi boost to 150mph with no smoke like the days of old was back. Here are some pics:











 
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mags

New member
Joined
Dec 3, 2017
Location
South Africa
TDI
1.9 tdi Seat ibiza cupra
My car kept going into limp mode with over boosting error so i did this on my tdi over the weekend and man what a big difference.Filled the oven cleaner via the egr section on the turbo.
What i want to know now is how often you guys think this should be done?
 

eddie_1

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2004
Location
Hannover, Germany formerly Toronto & NY
TDI
Jetta Wagon 2003 TDI tuned to 170HP, A6 Wagon 2008 TDI 2.7L tuned to 340HP
My car kept going into limp mode with over boosting error so i did this on my tdi over the weekend and man what a big difference.Filled the oven cleaner via the egr section on the turbo.
What i want to know now is how often you guys think this should be done?
Congrats! I must say in my case it has held about 6 months thus far, despite again local running. I was a bit sceptical initially like you, that it may not hold that long, since the chemical wouldn't be as effective as disassembling and cleaning. But this thing really seems to work. As long as you occasionally open it up on the open road to raise EGTs and no prob for you in SA, should be ok. I think probably why it is quite effective is because the chemical gets the big bits broken off and then afterwards raising EGTs is able to get the smaller bits, coming close to a full clean. For me as I said the key was letting the oven cleaner soak for a long time. Next time I would probably do it for a whole weekend.
 

Solamia

Well-known member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Location
Kansas
TDI
2001 Blue Jetta TDI (380K mi)
How do I get to exhaust flange nuts?

Ready to try this, but I can't even get my eye on the 3rd bolt. I "think" I got some PB Blaster on it? But don't know if I can get a socket onto it, and I'm female with small hands--how do you all guys get to it? I'm worried about the studs breaking, and then what would I do as I think I'll be lucky just to get a socket on it, let alone deal with it if something breaks. Oh, I did remove that plastic shield.
Did you all remove other things (axle, etc.)??
I don't have a deleted EGR, so I'm working from the bottom. I do have the hose set-up for the Easy-Off. It's just those 3 nuts location (well that back one), keeping me from proceeding.
Guess I'm just looking for reassurance that's it doable as it is, or info on what else I should remove for access.
Things on this car should be pretty stuck/rusted--367k miles, nothing has been done to turbo (and actuator does not move at all but IS holding vacuum). 2001 1.9L ALH.
Thanks for any input!
 

eddie_1

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2004
Location
Hannover, Germany formerly Toronto & NY
TDI
Jetta Wagon 2003 TDI tuned to 170HP, A6 Wagon 2008 TDI 2.7L tuned to 340HP
The EGR port is only 2 bolts. But as you said if you still have the cooler it is tricky to get to. If you say 3 bolts maybe you are refering to the downpipe? Maybe the downpipe 3 bolts are easier to access if the EGR port is hard to get to. With the downpipe you have to grope a bit from below without line of sight but should be able to get them off. I have had my EGR cooler out so long I can't remember how it was before. You can just dowse the bolts and go for it when the everything is still hot as you can work with. The studs do sometimes come out with the nut but that is not a problem you can screw those back in or maybe get a new set beforehand. Not sure how much they salt the roads in Kansas but maybe the nuts are ok to get out. Only one way to find out. If the nuts/studs are really fused then you most likely wont be able to get them off easily anyway.
 

Solamia

Well-known member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Location
Kansas
TDI
2001 Blue Jetta TDI (380K mi)
The EGR port is only 2 bolts. But as you said if you still have the cooler it is tricky to get to. If you say 3 bolts maybe you are refering to the downpipe? Maybe the downpipe 3 bolts are easier to access if the EGR port is hard to get to. With the downpipe you have to grope a bit from below without line of sight but should be able to get them off. I have had my EGR cooler out so long I can't remember how it was before. You can just dowse the bolts and go for it when the everything is still hot as you can work with. The studs do sometimes come out with the nut but that is not a problem you can screw those back in or maybe get a new set beforehand. Not sure how much they salt the roads in Kansas but maybe the nuts are ok to get out. Only one way to find out. If the nuts/studs are really fused then you most likely wont be able to get them off easily anyway.
Yes. Was referring to the down pipe. Thanks for your reply, gave me the determination to get back at it.
I was finally able to get the 3 nuts loose and the down pipe off turbo. It's soaking in easy off now. I made a plate to block the opening to hold more in. The vanes that were right there at the opening moved freely. I figured they wouldn't if a cleaning is what was needed. Actuator hasn't released/moved yet--will continue to work it. Hopefully it will release so my overall cost is kept down, and I don't have to buy an actuator...cause I've got to do the timing belt, water pump, etc next.
 

AndyBees

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2003
Location
Southeast Kentucky
TDI
Silver 2003 Jetta TDI, Silver 2000 Jetta TDI (sold), '84 Vanagon with '02 ALH engine
Solamia, if the Actuator holds Vacuum, most likely it is functioning just fine. The culprit is inside the Turbo ......... soot, carbon, rust, vane warpage, back plate pushed out due to rust behind it, etc.
 

blis

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2018
Location
Australia
TDI
1.9 TDI Polo 2006 (2005 built)
For the Borg Warner, I'd remove the turbo, unbolt the hot side and give it's a clean on the bench.... Small rollers behind the ring, lots of vane levers, etc, so there's a fair bit to clean up and while it may look daunting at first.

Here's my old one, I decided I'd get to know it a little better to learn how it all works!



I'm not sure how you'd clean them without opening it up. There's small bearings/rollers underneath the ring that need a good clean too.

If the turbo isn't burning oil through the seals then this vane levers aren't exposed to anything and should remain happy. Sure it gets hot in there, but other than exhaust gases passing through the vanes, there's not much you're going to solve if the levers and rings are clogged up and that's probably because the turbo seals are probably leaking anyway...



There's a locating hole on the center so it's easy to put back together.


As for removing EGRs etc... that third bolt... on my AXR, it's easier to remove the entire intake manifold from under the car. The two EGR flange bolts are quite large and get in the way. The EGR itself had bolts so tightly fixed to the manifold, I struggled getting them off on the bench



So I resorted to vice grips and replaced the bolts.


Handing out my loose change, 2 cents at a time :)
 

Tom W.

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2005
Location
Raleigh, NC
TDI
mash-up GettaTDI150, 1986 Jetta Delux D, 2005 Passat TDI sedan
So, how long does the Easy off last? Depends . I found that, once the USA switched to non-sulfur diesel, AND I fixed the over fueling issue, AND I got into the habit of blasting up long hills to clean out the crud from city driving, I haven't had to use the chemical cleaning any more. Still, it is easy enough to do, once you have done it the first time.
 

eddie_1

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2004
Location
Hannover, Germany formerly Toronto & NY
TDI
Jetta Wagon 2003 TDI tuned to 170HP, A6 Wagon 2008 TDI 2.7L tuned to 340HP
So, how long does the Easy off last? Depends . I found that, once the USA switched to non-sulfur diesel, AND I fixed the over fueling issue, AND I got into the habit of blasting up long hills to clean out the crud from city driving, I haven't had to use the chemical cleaning any more. Still, it is easy enough to do, once you have done it the first time.
It's been a year since I did mine and it has not gummed up to the point of not being able to clear it out with WOT runs, despite mostly city driving. I am really surprised by this.
 

2000alhVW

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2018
Location
Silver Spring, MD
TDI
2000 Golf
Due to crossing just about every other possibility off the list, I'm now looking at cleaning out my turbo.
I'm glad I don't have to remove my whole turbofold. Exhaust ManiCharger? I don't know. Just glad I don't have to spent 6 hours dealing with that hunk of metal.

I really like the chemical cleaner concept. I read the first 5 pages with one huge question in my mind - why does this guy, Tom, keep saying "if you have an EGR delete just remove your black off plate and spray Easy-Off down the hole".
Why do I need an EGR delete to do that...? Why can't I just remove the EGR pipes and spray? I found the answer (that you can do that!) later on, but still very odd reading it originally.

I have a few questions -
Now that this thread is almost 10 years old, is everything still the same?
I assume Easy-Off's product line has likely changed a bit. Am I still looking to buy the "BBQ cleaner" version?

Is this process as 'easy' as I hope it is? Unbolt EGR pipe, spray, and walk away?Often people mentioned ugly nonsense of constructing some end-cap using a gasket and cardboard covered in plastic.
Didn't really make sense to me to try to unbolt the downpipe and spray from below as this pretty thoroughly leaves you exposed to gravity-related incidents. The phosphoric acid application was particularly unappetizing to me.
I understand using a straw or plastic tubing to help direct the Easy-Off into the turbo fins. I got that.

But seems like this could be a 20 minute setup job. Unbolt, spray, walk away.
Am I right?
 

jagster936

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Location
Texas
TDI
2002 Beetle TDI Manual
I tried it all didn’t work ended up installing new turbo. Works for many though!


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2000alhVW

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2018
Location
Silver Spring, MD
TDI
2000 Golf
I tried it all didn’t work ended up installing new turbo. Works for many though!


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Did your turbo come with a new actuator?

Also, if my actuator moves properly when vacuum is applied with hand pump, does that mean my vanes are good, or could they still be problematic?
 

jagster936

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Location
Texas
TDI
2002 Beetle TDI Manual
Yes it did. I got oem though!

I’m not sure on that one. I’d say in most cases yes. They generally just stick when get carbonized.


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AndyBees

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2003
Location
Southeast Kentucky
TDI
Silver 2003 Jetta TDI, Silver 2000 Jetta TDI (sold), '84 Vanagon with '02 ALH engine
Did your turbo come with a new actuator?

Also, if my actuator moves properly when vacuum is applied with hand pump, does that mean my vanes are good, or could they still be problematic?

If vacuum pulls the actuator rod all the way down to the set-screw without any obvious catching, hanging, etc., your Vanes should be okay.
 
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golfere

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Joined
Jul 6, 2017
Location
sacramento
TDI
04 golf
If vacuum pulls the actuator rod all the way down to the set-screw without any obvious catching, hanging, etc., your Vanes should be okay.


I have been trying to fix overboost problem for a while now and dont know what else it can be; My actuator works smooth and doesnt get caught on anything; I removed the actuator to test the vanes lever and it gets stuck at the very top part and if you move the lever fast it clears up but within 5 seconds it gets stuck again (so it feels like)

Next step is to remove the turbo AGAIN and clean it AGAIN...not sure what else it could be!!:confused:
 

jagster936

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Location
Texas
TDI
2002 Beetle TDI Manual
Lots of potential vacuum issues. Did you check vacuum lines and the valve modulator thing?


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golfere

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2017
Location
sacramento
TDI
04 golf
I tried checking that by applying vacuum to the line (cant remember which one!) and it held vacuum just fine; Any suggestions?

The newest problem is why do the vanes move freely and then after a couple seconds they are a tad stiffer and you can feel resistance? Im guessing its not normal...
 

jagster936

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Location
Texas
TDI
2002 Beetle TDI Manual
Well ya gotta also make sure the modulating valve works properly. I think some people swap them with another one on the car? I forget.

Some people may know more it’s been a while. I think there may be some vag com checks for the valve but not sure. There is some sort of mode you can put it in where it cycles and you can watch the actuator I remember doing that.


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golfere

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Jul 6, 2017
Location
sacramento
TDI
04 golf
Hmm i hope someone can chime in with more info on that modulating valve


Yes i did that using my vagcom and it worked perfect; It doesnt make sense for the vanes to get gunked up as the turbo was good condition (less than 50k miles)
 

jagster936

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Location
Texas
TDI
2002 Beetle TDI Manual
Yea that’s a weird one then. Either loss of vacuum somehow or somehow heat causing vanes to stick or something odd. Have to rule things out. All vacuum lines are replaced? I did that to my old golf to be sure. Isn’t too hard. I just used simple regular rubber tubes.


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eddieleephd

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2012
Location
Battle Ground, Wa
TDI
2002 jetta Wagon
Hmm i hope someone can chime in with more info on that modulating valve


Yes i did that using my vagcom and it worked perfect; It doesnt make sense for the vanes to get gunked up as the turbo was good condition (less than 50k miles)
There's two valves that look the same under the hood n75 (turbo) and the egr actuator valve. Those are swapped to ensure the n75 isn't faulty.

As far as overboost my experience says to disconnect the actuator and feel with your hand what's up.

You can feel the difference between a wear stick at the top causing overboost and constant sticky due to gunk.

I recommend logging boost values and starting your own thread so you can post them through the Malone tuning website, just drop it in the browser and post the address in the bar, that way we can see what's going on as far as the even goes.

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eddieleephd

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2012
Location
Battle Ground, Wa
TDI
2002 jetta Wagon
Can you elaborate on this, please?
The lever that actuates the veins has a tendency to get worn and stick at wide open causing overboost.
Otherwise, the soot builds up and causes the veins to be sticky all the way across.
The second usually causes the first.
This is the reason for driving hard to burn out the soot.

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2000alhVW

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2018
Location
Silver Spring, MD
TDI
2000 Golf
The lever that actuates the veins has a tendency to get worn and stick at wide open causing overboost.
Otherwise, the soot builds up and causes the veins to be sticky all the way across.
The second usually causes the first.
This is the reason for driving hard to burn out the soot.

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So what if the first happens? It becomes irreversibly worn?
If so, are these internal parts replaceable or that's when it's really time for a turbo replacement?
 
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