MN Chat Thread

[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
It is a good rule of thumb to never spray anything into a TDI intake while trying to start it.

The reason being, if you spray something in, and the engine doesn't start, there is a tendency to try again with more -- eventually, with enough to cause major damage like bent rods.
If you can even think of using enough starting fluid to hydrolock an engine you aren't doing it right. The added gaseous fuel is a catalyst to make the injected fuel burn hotter, quicker. It is not to be introduced even in amounts anywhere near stoich. Tenth of a second puff is all you need, anything more'll start doing wonderful (expensive) things. Long as you keep the concentration below the lower threshold for ignition, you can even use ether based starting fluid.

Just because it is a tdi doesn't make it any different than the hundreds of other diesels out there. The hatz engines are sensitive to it, main bearings are ball bearings and they do not like to be hammered by preignition one bit.
 
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40X40

Experienced
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Location
Kansas City area, MO
TDI
2013 Passat SEL Premium
If you can even think of using enough starting fluid to hydrolock an engine you aren't doing it right. The added gaseous fuel is a catalyst to make the injected fuel burn hotter, quicker. It is not to be introduced even in amounts anywhere near stoich. Tenth of a second puff is all you need, anything more'll start doing wonderful (expensive) things. Long as you keep the concentration below the lower threshold for ignition, you can even use ether based starting fluid.

Just because it is a tdi doesn't make it any different than the hundreds of other diesels out there. The hatz engines are sensitive to it, main bearings are ball bearings and they do not like to be hammered by preignition one bit.

TDIs have glow plugs and they should be hot if you are cranking the engine with the starter...

The fuel is injected at precisely the correct time so that the piston CAN be pushed down instead of the rods, rings, piston etc. being overstressed by a premature ignition of the starting fluid or anything else that finds its way into the combustion chamber.

TDIs ARE just like every other diesel that has glow plugs in that respect... and you should not use starting fluid in those engines either.

Do you need a hug, or to be sent back to Engine operation 101? Last week you told us you 'draft' semis at a distance of 1 car length. Now it's starting fluid in a TDI, so what are you going to treat us to next?

LOL.

Bill
 
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isonic

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2009
Location
St. Paul, MN
TDI
2003 Golf 4door 5spd
Keep a can of WD40 in the glove box. Get a boost gauge and plumb it directly to the intake manifold.
Pull the line off the boost gauge and spray some WD-40 through the tube into the intake and it'll kick over every time.
So the same product that can fix my squeaky door hinge can also help start my TDI? Wow, that sounds so amazing .... :D
 

[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
Last week you told us you 'draft' semis at a distance of 1 car length.
"Drafting" at gridlock speeds? Uh, no.
Did I kick your dog or step on your toes? I can stop posting here if you'd rather, I don't mind either way.

And the glow plugs being on doesn't matter if you're actually using it as you should.
If the fuel/air ratio in the intake manifold is rich enough that the mixture will burn on its own you're using too much. It'll ignite in the cylinder well before the piston reaches TDC and do bad things from your pistons all the way down and back to the starter motor. Interesting to note, on an IDI like a VW 1.5/1.6 or int'l 7.3/6.9 you'll push the precups down into the fiber headgasket, then they can rattle back and forth and eventually ruin your head and block.

In a lean enough mixture that precludes ignition, it just gets the fuel injected at the proper time burning faster and with less input energy, like a catalyst to the combustion.

Suffice it to say "you" shouldn't use any sort of starting aid in a can, but to say that they can not be used safely and responsibly is downright misinformation.
So the same product that can fix my squeaky door hinge can also help start my TDI? Wow, that sounds so amazing .... :D
It is mostly the propane in it that is used as propellant. It's just a handy way to dispense it that most would have close at hand.
 

40X40

Experienced
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Location
Kansas City area, MO
TDI
2013 Passat SEL Premium
"Drafting" at gridlock speeds? Uh, no.
Did I kick your dog or step on your toes? I can stop posting here if you'd rather, I don't mind either way.
And the glow plugs being on doesn't matter if you're actually using it as you should.
If the fuel/air ratio in the intake manifold is rich enough that the mixture will burn on its own you're using too much. It'll ignite in the cylinder well before the piston reaches TDC and do bad things from your pistons all the way down and back to the starter motor. Interesting to note, on an IDI like a VW 1.5/1.6 or int'l 7.3/6.9 you'll push the precups down into the fiber headgasket, then they can rattle back and forth and eventually ruin your head and block.
In a lean enough mixture that precludes ignition, it just gets the fuel injected at the proper time burning faster and with less input energy, like a catalyst to the combustion.
Suffice it to say "you" shouldn't use any sort of starting aid in a can, but to say that they can not be used safely and responsibly is downright misinformation.
It is mostly the propane in it that is used as propellant. It's just a handy way to dispense it that most would have close at hand.

Actually I sincerely wish that you would stick around and post responsibly and in a thoughtful fashion.

For instance, if you are driving at 'gridlock speeds' that is TAILGATING, not drafting. Somebody else already pointed out that you left out what gear you were in, so it was not clear in your first post that you weren't at cruising speed and you did call it drafting.

Simply stating that you use WD-40 on a diesel that has glow plugs might lead someone less experienced than you to think THEY can do it safely too.... WD-40 is old school, and when glow plugs came along the practice became obsolete.

Ordinary people (they just own the car and may have as little as ZERO mechanical knowledge) come here for good information(often in desperation), and it is incumbent on all of us to keep in mind who the 'audience' really is. I am sure you would feel bad if someone lost the use of their work transportation through a misunderstanding of what they read here. Everything that is posted here is (for all practical purposes)available on the web FOREVER, so I try to post accordingly and wish you to do the same.

Either way, I don't have a bone to pick with you personally, but when I disagree with your 'automotive wisdom', I will continue to put in my own two cents.

Bill
 

[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
Actually I sincerely wish that you would stick around and post responsibly and in a thoughtful fashion.
For instance, if you are driving at 'gridlock speeds' that is TAILGATING, not drafting. Somebody else already pointed out that you left out what gear you were in, so it was not clear in your first post that you weren't at cruising speed and you did call it drafting.
Did I call it drafting, or did I just throw it out there in a thread on that subject? I'd think I'd say something like "as an aside..." in that part of the post. Either way, I'm at fault if there's any paint transfer or worse. I'm the sort that given the choice'd rather drive off a cliff than so much as scratch someone's car.
Simply stating that you use WD-40 on a diesel that has glow plugs might lead someone less experienced than you to think THEY can do it safely too.... WD-40 is old school, and when glow plugs came along the practice became obsolete.
Really? I've got some ancient glow plugs from at least the '50s if not earlier. Really neat looking boxes they're in, and they're big as spark plugs. Ether's the real old solution, I know better than to suggest anyone pick up a can of that, if you didn't know what that stuff was before asking you are going to crack a piston or worse. :p
As I explained before, GPs don't do a bad thing if you're using a responsible amount, but the assumption is that they're not cutting the mustard if there's a question of the engine starting or not. If the battery's weak, the draw from the GPs is enough to slow cranking to the point where it will not fire under any circumstances. In that case, a properly sized whiff of accelerant and immediate cranking (no waiting for the GPs to draw down the battery) will usually get anything to light off first crank revolution. Always try the normal stuff first, needs some cranking to be sure the fuel system's bled through anyways, or the ether won't do any good.

Ordinary people (they just own the car and may have as little as ZERO mechanical knowledge) come here for good information(often in desperation), and it is incumbent on all of us to keep in mind who the 'audience' really is. I am sure you would feel bad if someone lost the use of their work transportation through a misunderstanding of what they read here. Everything that is posted here is (for all practical purposes)available on the web FOREVER, so I try to post accordingly and wish you to do the same.
I cut my 'automotive forum' teeth over on pirate4x4 and the attitude toward the uninformed there is... Different. 'Chase them off so that it doesn't turn into just another forum where good info is drowned out by the same ten questions new guys ask.' is the general idea over there.
Colors my responses a bit, even though I know this is a much gentler place. I try to tone down my ass hole tendencies, but it leaks out a bit from time to time. Spent my whole life trying to passively discourage social contact, I'm good at it.

Either way, I don't have a bone to pick with you personally, but when I disagree with your 'automotive wisdom', I will continue to put in my own two cents.
Bill
Mine in blue.
I type as I think, in a rather disjointed and unfiltered manner, that is.
 

isonic

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2009
Location
St. Paul, MN
TDI
2003 Golf 4door 5spd
Simply stating that you use WD-40 on a diesel that has glow plugs might lead someone less experienced than you to think THEY can do it safely too.... WD-40 is old school, and when glow plugs came along the practice became obsolete.

Ordinary people (they just own the car and may have as little as ZERO mechanical knowledge) come here for good information(often in desperation), and it is incumbent on all of us to keep in mind who the 'audience' really is. I am sure you would feel bad if someone lost the use of their work transportation through a misunderstanding of what they read here. Everything that is posted here is (for all practical purposes)available on the web FOREVER, so I try to post accordingly and wish you to do the same.
Truth! People come to the TDI club because they have a need to learn some piece of information that will help them with their car. It really stinks to be new and find information here that you think will help only to find out later that it was wrong. New people rely on a certain amount of luck that the information they get here is accurate since they do not know any better until they have a little bit of their own experience and have read enough to learn the basics.

Secondly, a stock tdi that has everything working as it was designed will start just fine in the cold. If some one is having a problem starting their car in the cold we need to help them diagnose the problem rather than compensate for it by using methods and products not designed for our application. We should help people fix things, not band aid them. Those of us who have modified our cars understand the consiquences and have moved past having a basic understanding of how the tdi works. At that point it becomes our responsibility to improve the community base by providing accurate knowledge to everyone else. That is, if we want to continue to grow the community and help others.
 

Losha

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2005
Location
Sioux Falls, SD
TDI
06 Jetta TDI DSG, 2001 Golf TDI, Audi S6, A8, Toureg
Secondly, a stock tdi that has everything working as it was designed will start just fine in the cold. If some one is having a problem starting their car in the cold we need to help them diagnose the problem rather than compensate for it by using methods and products not designed for our application. We should help people fix things, not band aid them. Those of us who have modified our cars understand the consiquences and have moved past having a basic understanding of how the tdi works. At that point it becomes our responsibility to improve the community base by providing accurate knowledge to everyone else. That is, if we want to continue to grow the community and help others.

Amen buddy! Stock perfectly maintained with healthy battery (Proper size battery), good healthy starter and working glow plugs as well fresh fuel filter for winter with good at least 1/2 tank of fuel should start -20F no problem with couple glow plug cycles.
 

carkey351

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
Location
MN -land of the ice and snow
TDI
2006 Jetta 5 speed 157K(to replace 09 when it goes away)2009 Jetta 6 speed-414K (and climbing), 2002 chevy duramax (303k and climbing).
burpod, if you see a 2000 Jetta white w/darktinted glass traveling hwy 2 between Grand Rapids-Bagley give me a wave!!
I live in GR but work down south. Haven't seen your car even though i've lived in GR for 4+ years. I just bought this 09' jetta with 360,000 on it and i'm already converted to the VW family because they drive so nicely. look forward to seeing you sometime!
 

TornadoRed

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Location
West Des Moines (formerly St Paul)
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI wagon, silver; 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, indigo blue; 2003 Golf GL 5-spd, red (PARTED); 2003 Golf GLS 5-spd, indigo blue (SOLD); 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, Candy White (SOLD)
I've been toying with the idea of quitting my job and fixing cars at home.

Opinions?
A problem for me, and probably for most Twin Cities TDI drivers, is that you live pretty far out in the boondocks.
 

Steve-o

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 13, 1999
Location
Saint Paul, Minnesota, USA
TDI
2003 Jetta Wagon
Originally Posted by merkerguitars
I've been toying with the idea of quitting my job and fixing cars at home.

Opinions?
A problem for me, and probably for most Twin Cities TDI drivers, is that you live pretty far out in the boondocks.
+1. Baldwin is a hike and I live on the east side of town. Further out? Hmm. Especially when the car is not real driveable.

Bad day? Or something else? PM if you want.
 

mimalmo

Active member
Joined
Sep 29, 2012
Location
Lakeville MN
TDI
2013 JSW 6MT
What's the name of the place in Hudson that does TDI work? On my way to work and the GP and CEL lit up. The car is in limp mode. Yay.
 

mimalmo

Active member
Joined
Sep 29, 2012
Location
Lakeville MN
TDI
2013 JSW 6MT
Tried shutting down and restarting, didn't change anything. Called Bob at Midwest and I'm on the schedule for later today. Thanks guys.
 

merkerguitars

Veteran Member
Joined
May 10, 2004
Location
Elmwood, WI
TDI
01 Jetta
Its just the lies and getting my butt chewed out all the time. I try my hardest to make sure all the customers leave happy but its just a bunch of empty promises.
 

DWNUNDR

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 13, 2014
Location
Jordan, Minnesota
TDI
03 Golf TDi
glad I got in when I did then...

quick question...

is it normal to have crappy heat in the car during winter...???

why are these cars no good at heating up when sitting still??




forgive my diesel engine ignorance?? But it is really annoying that after a 45min commute I am still shivering inside my car with the fan on 4...
 

greengeeker

Vendor
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Location
Cambridge, MN
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS
Pretty simple. On a diesel engine your are consuming a certain amount of chemical energy (fuel) that is split somewhat evenly to mechanical (30%) and thermal energy to the coolant (30%), exhaust (30%), ambient (10%). Since our little tdi's are so efficient the amount of input energy is low and therefore the thermal energy being put into the coolant is low. This is especially the case when you are sitting at idle. Now if you were to throw on the heater fan you are adding an energy draw on the system pulling heat out of the coolant loop. With my car (new thermostat, winter front, blocked radiator) I've found that if temps are < 20F I can only use fan speeds 1-2 without affecting the coolant temp WHILE DRIVING. The moment I stop at a light the coolant temp plummets if I have the fan on 2. Saving grace are my heated cloth seats. :)
 

Namakan

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Location
Minnetrista, MN
TDI
2002 Golf, 2011 JSW (gone), 2004 Jetta (gone)
glad I got in when I did then...

quick question...

is it normal to have crappy heat in the car during winter...???

why are these cars no good at heating up when sitting still??




forgive my diesel engine ignorance?? But it is really annoying that after a 45min commute I am still shivering inside my car with the fan on 4...
If much of your commute is at highway speeds then I would say your experience sounds a bit abnormal when it's this cold. My normal commute to work in my 02 Golf is about 45 minutes as well with the first half ranging in speeds from 30-50. During this time there are stop lights I hit but generally the temp gauge is in the 150-170 range when this cold. Once on the highway at 65-70 it normally climbs right up to 190 quickly unless the temps are -10 or colder I've noticed. Either way I seem to have more than enough heat and I rarely have the fan past 2 but I also don't like it too warm.
 

SpamJ

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2001
Location
Cable, MN
TDI
Jetta Wagon 2002 Silver
DWNUNDR,

You need to also check your actually water temp, our gauges read 190 even if the water temp is 170 ish. I put a new thermostat in and on the highway I see 193 now. It does take a good workout (work the engine) to get the car up to temp and that's 10 minutes at least on the highway.

So
Check real temp
Winter front, you can make a cheap one with pipe insulation
Fan at 2
Heated seats
 

DWNUNDR

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 13, 2014
Location
Jordan, Minnesota
TDI
03 Golf TDi
normally it hasnt been an issue... just the last few days has sucked...

heated seats are fine but I prefer my body to be warm rather than my ass crack sweating cause the seat is like hades
 

[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
forgive my diesel engine ignorance?? But it is really annoying that after a 45min commute I am still shivering inside my car with the fan on 4...
If you listen to certain people here, something's wrong with your car. 'certain people' live in the southern US. ;)

Yeah, it's normal on these cars. I've found the same thing with the fan being more or less unusable. To get enough airflow to keep the windshield clear I turn the heat dial to halfway or more toward cold until the engine warms up, then move it over to 3/4 hot. Fan never above 2, and completely off if I've got it sitting idling to 'warm up' (which doesn't really happen)

I just found a map in the programming of my car that has the coolant glow plugs turned off at 10F, and they only heat until 50C coolant temp at -10F ambient. I've altered this map so they heat longer, to see if it makes any difference. Gonna reflash it after work, too damn cold out to do it without the heated shop, heh.
 

JFettig

Vendor
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Location
Blaine, MN
TDI
B5 Passat, 2010 Jetta
I have my grill 100% blocked on my JSW, side grills are open so it gets minimal flow but it warms up nicely and doesn't over heat even as high as 40F ambient(that I've whitnessed so far).
 

DWNUNDR

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 13, 2014
Location
Jordan, Minnesota
TDI
03 Golf TDi
I had thrown some cardboard behind the grill kinda.. it helped a few months back,, may have to check the coverage till I have time to make something better
 

Minnesota Mike

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 18, 2006
Location
Owatonna, MN
TDI
2002 Jetta 263,000.
Cold weather

I too, have never had a problem on my 02 Jetta. I have not blocked the grill with anything. It does takes a few minutes to get to 190 degrees, but I generally have to turn the temp down on a 30 minute commute. Our B5 Passat wagon (gasser) in a different story. I have very little heat with a plugged heater core. We cant go anywhere far without dressing like we are outside. Spring can't get here soon enough for me to tear it apart. :cool:
 
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