Towing advice needed

As I am going through a MAJOR life change I am wanting to tow a T@B 2014
teardrop trailer. As I have no tow bar and any needed extras advice would be greatly appreciated. The tow vehicle would be my 2001 4dr TDI Golf that I have replaced all major engine and maintenance parts.
Thanks in advance!
Ed

https://www.pfjones.co.uk/tow-bars/...tchback/vw-golf-mark-4-1998-2004-towbars.html


You want one of these, a "Euro" style hitch. Rated well over the usual
US offerings at > 3000#s. I've done thousands of miles with my teardrop
and Golf. A tune and a good clutch are a big help, brake upgrades also
recommended. I found even paying the freight from the UK was cheaper
than finding a US vendor.


Here's the one I got:
https://www.pfjones.co.uk/volkswagen-golf-iv-hatchback-1997-2004-oris-swan-neck-towbar.html

R,
Thanks for the advice. I got a uhaul hitch that users said was reliable. I am also self installing both struts and shocks since they are all original and pretty worn. All bearings and brakes are less than 10k I keep it well maintained. How many miles have you towed the trailer?
Ed

I have the best hitch, a Basal. It’s hidden and works great. I have towed a lot with my Golf and can tell you that it cannot pull the T@B. You are limited to 1000 lbs max and a any model T@B is more than that. Also you need to be concerned with the frontal area of the trailer and most RV Travel Trailers are too big for the Golf. You need a smaller teardrop trailer like the “Little Guy” or “MyPod” or “Gateway”. If you are not familiar with them do a web search. You will also find T@G teardrop trailers but they will be too heavy unless you find one stripped of all options.

Pushing 10k ez. Do get Jetta wagon towing springs for the rear. Either Moog,
or Idparts has Suplex. The Euro hitches bolt into the frame.
All the mods listed in my signature have helped a heap. I can cruise at
70, the Rockies were no problem. The Golf makes a great tow vehicle.
Be prepared to downshift sooner rather than later to keep EGTs down.

Hwy, it's hard to get enough tongue capacity from a Bosal to support the T@B tongue weight I believe that the Bosal max's out at 165 lbs. Many have gone to a custom class 2 or 3 receiver if you can't find a suitable one from one of the suppliers. I had mine made by a shop that made another one for a Beetle pulling a T@B.

Our MK4's are quite capable of towing a small trailer but the key to successful towing is to make sure that the trailer has brakes on each axle which I believe the T@B does. Make sure that you install a brake controller in your car and dial the brakes in with the controller.

For the past 4 years we have been pulling a ~2,000 lbs Camplite all over BC and Washington State. We kept our cruising speed to 65 mph which was the best for fuel economy ~28 mph while towing and to limit trailer sway. Our trailer was 7 feet wide and 9 feet tall with a nearly flat front. It was like pushing a barn down the highway.

We upgraded our brakes so we could stop the combo even if the trailer brakes weren't there. Tweaked the engine to handle the hills better and tightened up the suspension to handle the extra weight. We could accelerate on 10% grades and pass cars!

Get a hitch capable of more than your T@B'a max weight (GVWR) and tongue weight which you can find on T@B's website. Keep in mind that your tongue weight of a 2,000 lbs trailer could be between 200 and 300 lbs. The higher the better to limit sway. Less than 10% tongue weight and you could experience disasterous trailer sway.

You need to consider that you will be towing something that VW wouldn't recommend you do. They really don't want you to tow anything in North America. You will be doing this on your own and if anything happens, you will not get any support from VW. Too many lawyers!

You will also need some clip on mirrors to see around the trailer. We were using a 2" Receiver and 2" ball for our trailer and had a sway control device (friction) installed beside the hitch to help with trailer sway. i found some nice clip on mirrors made by Dometic.

the 'bosal' tongue rating is not a result of the hitch strength but of the vehicles limits within european towing speeds.. they are super stout towing solutions and even the model x comes with a bosal hitch that fits in a westfalia hitch if you need a class 2 receiver for something.. its far better than anything he's gonna get from uhaul.

I towed my camp trailer good ~45k miles w/my Golf on a bosal hitch just great, over european tongue ratings.. just needed towing bags to lift the back end up so the tires would wear more evenly.

Hi nayr, I don't doubt the strength of the Bosal hitch as with many designs is overbuilt.

I think it is important to understand what the numbers and ratings refer to when it comes to the values needed to tow. The Bosal hitch has always been a puzzling one because of the higher towing value and low tongue value that they state on the literature. I really like the concept of being able to drop the gooseneck from the mount making the system hidden and I may have gone with one myself if I could locate one at the time.

My concern is that if I were to max out the Bosal in both towing weight and tongue weight. I would end up with a huge sway potential. I am not too sure if a sway device can be installed to a Bosal but I think it can't be.

I totally agree about your comment about the u-haul hitches, I expect that the one they have is the little class one unit the bolts to the spare tire tin. I had one of those in my MK4 GTI when we towed a tent trailer but certainly wouldn't use one for a T@B.

Ultimately, the setup will be designed by Ed27 to the requirements that he determines to set his comfort level and needs. I just hope that he is able to compile what he needs to be as safe as possible.

My bad, I read teardrop, not realising that the OP has a much larger and
heavier option than mine. At a ton of tow, you REALLY need some brakes,
and some serious modding on the car and motor.

I figure my setup is ~ 1200#s fully loaded up, but I wouldn't be comfortable
doubling that without trailer brakes and air bags on the suspension.
I've got the power to pull a ton, and the hitch could take it, but it's an order
of magnitude to set up the car for that much weight.

The figure I've heard for tongue weight is 14% of GVWR. Never had any
problems with sway oscillation, but you certainly don't want any!

I have done a lot of towing (tens of thousands of miles) with all manner of vehicles and things behind same.

Sway is a function of several things, some under your control, some not. The biggest "not" is windage and potential evasive maneuvering in an emergency situation.

The big problem with towing in general is that any "weight carrying" system off the rear of the vehicle applies a lever arm to the suspension predicated on its length from the ball to the rear axle. This is bad for handling and control of the towing vehicle, and it's why a 5th wheel or gooseneck setup is MUCH more stable (and thus why such a setup is what's used on a tractor/trailer); both place the load directly over the rear axle(s). Weight distribution systems try to compensate for this problem and make a *large* difference, if you can use one.

Weight distribution is the difference between being able to *comfortably* pull my large travel/cargo trailer behind a 1/2 ton Suburban and having the suspension bottom out in the rear and dangerously unload the front. It sounds crazy but the lighter and smaller the towing vehicle the more-important it is to NOT carry the weight behind the rear axle. W/D hitch systems are not cheap but IMHO they're worth every penny spent on them. Weight distribution systems also usually incorporate sway control. Shop carefully; some allow you to back up with the system connected, and some do not (mine does and having had both styles over the years I'll NEVER buy one without that capability again.)

Brake balance is also important; buy a proportional controller and use it. They're not very expensive and are utterly necessary when you get into the circumstance where the trailer is half or more of the towing vehicle's mass.

Get a scan gauge or other means of reading the ACTUAL coolant temperature (the idiot meter on the dash points right in the middle all through the "normal" range) so you KNOW how much heat load is on the engine. Make darn sure the fans and thermoswitch work properly. Contemplate installing an EGT gauge; with a turbo it is not at all hard to try to "power through" hills but especially if you are modified in any way (nozzles, tune, etc) it's very possible to cook things doing that. Downshift rather than trying to do that.

In Florida grades are not a concern but in the rest of the nation with a load behind you they are. The general rule is that if you're on a *downward* grade with your foot off the accelerator *and are accelerating* you came over the top of the grade in the wrong gear. With a load behind you that can get catastrophically bad VERY quickly. Remember that your brakes WILL NOT survive trying to slow you repeatedly over a long downgrade; they are for stopping, not control of your speed, and plan accordingly. You may get all manner of dirty looks coming down a grade at 30mph but it beats coming down it at 95 with no brakes and continuing straight when the curve at the bottom approaches -- or when reaching the traffic jam down at the bottom finds you with burned up brakes and no way to stop.

The other thing to realize is that in the US your vehicle insurance is likely *void* on a liability basis if you exceed the manufacturer's limits, no matter how well you engineer it. IF you get into an accident and there's any indication the configuration of your vehicle was responsible in whole or part the landsharks will eat you. Just be aware of this and drive as if you have no insurance protection in that regard, because you probably don't.

PB_NB said:

Hi nayr, I don't doubt the strength of the Bosal hitch as with many designs is overbuilt.

I think it is important to understand what the numbers and ratings refer to when it comes to the values needed to tow. The Bosal hitch has always been a puzzling one because of the higher towing value and low tongue value that they state on the literature. I really like the concept of being able to drop the gooseneck from the mount making the system hidden and I may have gone with one myself if I could locate one at the time.

My concern is that if I were to max out the Bosal in both towing weight and tongue weight. I would end up with a huge sway potential. I am not too sure if a sway device can be installed to a Bosal but I think it can't be.

I totally agree about your comment about the u-haul hitches, I expect that the one they have is the little class one unit the bolts to the spare tire tin. I had one of those in my MK4 GTI when we towed a tent trailer but certainly wouldn't use one for a T@B.

Ultimately, the setup will be designed by Ed27 to the requirements that he determines to set his comfort level and needs. I just hope that he is able to compile what he needs to be as safe as possible.

Click to expand...

In the UK, max speed limit towing is 65mph on there major freeways, and less on most sideroads.. due to the restrictive speeds, they use like 5% tounge weight where'as here in NA if you wanna do 70mph on the interstate you need to be at LEAST 10% on the tounge.

You cant take any European towing limits and apply them to US.. you gotta ignore it and go with your gut mostly when they wont give us any limits at all.

I tow a 7klb, 11ft high trailer right now with no weight distribution or any anti-sway tools.. I'm on air suspension so it rides perfectly level, never had any desire for anti-sway.. and I've driven it across the midwest dozens of times and even nicked a deer pulling it so I'm fully confident in its ability to maneuver and stop all at same time.. IMO people put too much into anti-sway systems when they usually dont need em, the sales guy at the trailer lot makes it sound like if you dont buy their $500 hitch that alone is gonna eat up most of your tongue carrying capacity, your gonna die.

Uh, I've pulled the SAME trailer both with and without the WD/Sway system on the SAME TOWING VEHICLE. 7x16 dual axle, 7k GVWR rated behind a 5k curb weight, 12k GCWR rated vehicle. In other words, right on the spec'd maximum for the towing vehicle.

Without WD and the trailer empty it is quite a high-wire act if you want to go faster than 55. I did that with this rig over significant distance exactly once. Around town it's no big deal.

With WD, well, it's a whole different game; it's just flat-out bone-stable even loaded right at gross.

You still need adequate trailer brakes and a proper brake controller, of course.

(The other interesting thing is that in terms of fuel burn impact having the trailer back there it's nearly 100% wind resistance; there is almost no difference between fully-loaded and entirely empty in the box.)

In terms of various rigs they've run the gamut; I think at this point it's something like six different boats over the years with a couple of them being dragged literally the entire north-south distance of the nation a couple of times (including once behind a Volvo XC -- they have an interesting hitch setup similar to the Bosal thing for VWs) and several box trailers, including the rather large one I own now and am in the process of turning into an RV -- spec'd it with an extra foot of height with the intent of having it be convertible with locked-down modules between cargo and recreational use. Just add window and A/C

YMMV of course.

After a near death experience, I will NEVER tow a bumper-pull RV without WD.


NEVER

I would like to thank everyone for the replies and PB NB has it right
"Ultimately, the setup will be designed by Ed27 to the requirements that he determines to set his comfort level and needs. I just hope that he is able to compile what he needs to be as safe as possible."

I am looking to be safe and have a camper that meets my needs. I will NOT be traveling over 55 mph I plan on taking every scenic route and stopping often. No need for speed!

Great Pic!!! PB NB

I have see so many euro pics of various Golfs towing trailers that were large and with the US automakers restricting euro tow vehicles for the truck markets I want to keep my Golf and downsize. Anyone else have pics of what they tow?

"I totally agree about your comment about the u-haul hitches, I expect that the one they have is the little class one unit the bolts to the spare tire tin. I had one of those in my MK4 GTI when we towed a tent trailer but certainly wouldn't use one for a T@B."
PB NB what hitch would you use?

To be clear:
I have towed my 30' trailer with my 5.7 GMC Suburban. Again, I am looking to tow safely and on a budget in comfort. NO need for speed.

Replace your brake fluid with high boiling point fluid at least annually, and have trailer brakes also if it's over 1000# or so. Get an audible alarm on the engine temp (and trans if auto)-the Torque app w/ a bluetooth OBD reader is what I use. A euro hitch is expensive but worth every penny. The best setup is a Westfalia removable hitch, with the 2" receiver adapter that comes new with the Tesla Model X. I managed to purchase one on the Facebook Model X owners page.

Ed27 said:

I have see so many euro pics of various Golfs towing trailers that were large and with the US automakers restricting euro tow vehicles for the truck markets I want to keep my Golf and downsize. Anyone else have pics of what they tow?

Click to expand...

See this thread

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=255330

I'm partial to my own design...but there are many other good ones out there. On golfs I believe you can get a flip down license plate holder and put the receiver behind that for a cleaner look.

3248

3263

3264

I've found Miketoth1979 Beef on a budget thread using thicker rear coils. I think I'll give them a try when I replace the rear shocks.

Genesis said:

Without WD and the trailer empty it is quite a high-wire act if you want to go faster than 55. I did that with this rig over significant distance exactly once. Around town it's no big deal.

Click to expand...

Yeah thats what happens when you try to take super light tongue weight trailer onto the interstate.. your 'wd' bar just put some force on the front of the trailer to make up for it.. If you'd of tossed a few sand bags on the front it'd of gone down the interstate at 80mph just like it was loaded.. If you got a trailer your gonna be traveling with unloaded its a good idea to just make it tongue heavy off the bat, slap a tool box or something heavy on the tongue so even empty its still at least 10% weight.

this is why europe has towing speed limits to go along with their super low tongue weights.. and you wont find a WD bar for sale anywhere in europe.

I was camping in golf for a month and due to consuming food/beer/water my loads shifter and I didnt realize it, when I got back on the interstate with ~5% on the tongue I quickly realized I had no authority and pulled that **** right over.. reloaded everything back to 15% TW and then it rode fine at 80mph down the highway the 2500 miles back home.

My 20ft toyhauler camp trailer is right at max capacity of my Q7 and you'd never know it, seems germans put a nice safety factor on my vehicle.. at least compared to any domestic truck I've towed at its max capacity that feels overburdened.. towed it all over the country in the last 3 years and never thought for a moment it needed any WD or anti-sway.. its setup properlly.

I've been pulling trailers around since before I even had a drivers license, construction equipment, landscaping equipment, camper trailers, car haulers, etc.. only a couple boats tho.. Well over 100k miles towing under my belt and very little of it was with a WD hitch.

Ed27 said:

"I totally agree about your comment about the u-haul hitches, I expect that the one they have is the little class one unit the bolts to the spare tire tin. I had one of those in my MK4 GTI when we towed a tent trailer but certainly wouldn't use one for a T@B."
PB NB what hitch would you use?

Click to expand...

Hi Ed, I am really glad that you are reaching out to this group as there are many of us that have been doing what you want to do.

The challenge that we face in North America is that the totalitarianism doesn't want us to use our cars to tow so they give us a puny little hitch good for a 4' x 4' utility trailer. Something about a big truck getting 6 mpg is more along the lines of what they want you to get. Not the little car that can give you 30 mph while towing. Sorry for the rant!

Since you are not in a hurry, keeping your speed down is the best way to minimize trailer sway so you could be running about 200 + lbs tongue weight which isn't too bad on the rear of the car. Lower speeds is why Europe has a 60 mph max for trailer towing. They also run with different tongue weights that would probably be less than what we use.

It sounds like you are taking steps to beef up your rear suspension to help with the extra load.

As far as a hitch, I had one made which replaces the bumper rebar and goes into the chassis tunnels about 14" where it is bolted in several places. I really couldn't find one that would give me the capacity that I wanted. If you are able to find a Westfalia or Bosal hitch for your MK4. That may be the best approach off the shelf. Many of us have gone the custom or home made route. A class 2 capable hitch would be good and give you lots of headroom for the T@B plus a bit more.

If you were closer to me, I would consider selling my hitch. It would be a real pain to try and ship it to Florida from Vancouver. I am not using it anymore as the car has been replaced with a pickup for towing (long story).

WDH systems are a good idea but those would probably require that you do more modifications to get the chassis of the car to absorb the loads transferred from the tongue. I think nayr speaks about those. The idea is that the WDH sends part of the tongue load to the front axle of the car and sends some of that load to the trailer axle. This helps eliminate a squatting rear of the car and makes the rig more level and more drivable. Keep in mind that hitch/receiver needs to be able to support the connections for the WD hitch and be able to resist the loads so if a Bosal is your choice, just make sure that it will do what you want in the end.

CanAmRv in Ontario can make little cars tow much heavier trailers (usually Airstreams) so they would be a good resource if you wanted to go with a WDH system (talk to Andy).

On this one you're wrong.

That trailer (it's right outside my back door) puts ~250lb (by my pin scale) on the ball EMPTY; gross on the trailer (empty) is under 2k. Right where it should be; about 12%.

Unlike most this one is actually built right in terms of balance right out of the factory. Yes, I checked it before plunking down the money. Who you buy a trailer from matters.

Fully loaded at 7k gross with the load properly distributed in the trailer I'm just under 1k on the ball. 15%. I moved my entire house over the space of a month or so between Florida and Tennessee (multiple trips, of course) with this rig. No 1/2 ton class truck I've ever seen will carry that safely on the stock suspension. The 1/2 ton class Chevys (e.g. 1500 Suburban, Silverado, etc) from the era of my truck (mine is a half-ton Suburban) are only rated for 500lbs on the ball weight-carrying but are also rated for 7000lbs of trailer and 12k GCWR -- it's not the receiver that can't deal with it, it's the rear suspension -- the springs are nowhere near stiff enough and the lever arm is just too long. You can bag the rear suspension or change the springs and a bunch of other stuff (but changing the springs destroys the ride quality when you're not towing, never mind violating the placarded maximums for the vehicle and thus potentially voiding your insurance if there's a wreck) or buy a weight distributing hitch. The hitch is cheaper than properly doing the suspension work (by a lot) and you get sway control at the same time.

You can safely pull a 7000lb BOAT behind that truck without weight distribution due to the aerodynamics and how a boat's load is distributed -- you can run 7% or so of a boat-and-trailer on the ball (I owned a 23'er that scaled right at 7k full of fuel and such) and you won't have trouble, never mind that nearly all boat trailers are surge braked simply because electric brakes with immersion tend not to last very long.

If you have a truck rated to carry 1k on the ball then you can pull a 7k load properly distributed without WD and it'll be fine but there are darn few 1/2 ton trucks in a stock configuration that are rated to do that. Mine sure as hell isn't.

The premise behind WD is that it takes a significant part of the load off the ball and shifts it forward; it's a leverage trick, basically. Most also come with some sort of sway control but not all. The receiver portion still has to be able to handle the total dynamic load placed on the towing vehicle (as well as however the hitch is attached to the vehicle), of course and the trailer has to be able to mount the brackets required as well. If you're going to try to pull half or more of the mass of your vehicle, as the OP appears to be intending to try to do, and especially if the tow vehicle is short-wheelbase, then stability is at a premium. You definitely do not want the trailer driving the car!

Genesis said:

If you have a truck rated to carry 1k on the ball then you can pull a 7k load properly distributed without WD and it'll be fine but there are darn few 1/2 ton trucks in a stock configuration that are rated to do that. Mine sure as hell isn't.

Click to expand...

I had a Ram 1500 and it was terrible for capacity. I would put 500 lbs in the box and be running on the bump stops. I couldn't imagine pulling a trailer with it unless it had air bags.

You are spot on about the suspension changes. If modifications are done to stiffen up the rear suspension, you will feel that when the trailer is disconnected.

We have KW V3 coilovers and had them adjusted a bit higher to allow the trailer to push them down to level. The ride was not compromised when the trailer was off, but these are so expensive, I wouldn't suggest them unless you really wanted them.

We didn't use a WDH on the Beetle and tried to keep our stuff loaded in the front of the trailer to avoid sway. We did focus on keeping our speed below 65 mph.

We had a sway situation happen to us just after getting the Camplite trailer. We were travelling about 70 mpg and got hit by some cross winds. The trailer started swaying. I took my foot off the accelerator and the swaying eventually stopped when we slowed down to about 40 mph. Scared the crap out of us in the process!

I've got 700lbs on the tongue of my TDI, with air suspension and its great.. my manual specifically forbids the use of a WD hitch.. Domestic Trucks come with two ratings for WD hitch and without WD hitch, European vehicles do not.. they come with warnings saying dont use a damn WD hitch.

Sorry your domestic trucks sucks, but thats not what we're talking about here.. we're talking about a small german car that a WD hitch alone would chew up 90% of his tongue carrying capacity.. sigh.. If you trying to put half a ton on on a half ton truck you should be using a gooseneck/5th wheel or buying a bigger truck.

If you have the chassis strength to put 700lbs on the ball with a TDI safely you've done a LOT of work. I've crawled around under and worked on mine and others enough that I'm not at all sure there's enough metal there to take the dynamic load involved in pulling that much trailer for my taste.

I agree with you in that trying to pull a 2 or 3k trailer (depending on which T@B he has) behind a Golf requires more than just putting a hitch on the car. LOTS of thought is required to do it with reasonable safety. Finding a way to pull 1k is easy; it's when you want to get beyond that with "modern" cars that things get interesting.

I considered putting a hitch on my Wagon but decided against it; the "pre-built" ones I could find were less than inspiring. If I was going to build one up myself then it would definitely involve rear suspension mods and a LOT of attention to how it's attached to the car itself.

PS: A gooseneck on a Surburban would be quite amusing, I suspect.

I'm not in a golf dude.. but I've towed with one ~50k miles or so.. my 3L TDI is rated for 770# on the tounge FYI, as does the Touareg TDI.. both smaller than yer burban, but more capable towing vehicles.

The OP is; that's the context.