2015 Gen 3 Fix Phase 2

OK, I get it now. I was confused by the "whichever occurs first" between the years and miles. Looks like VW has potentially left a huge loophole here. As an owner of a buyback car, it looks like there is no incentive for me to do phase 2 until I hit 161,999 miles. At that point I get another 60,000 miles of free warranty.

I think the point people are missing with delaying Phase II as long as possible is that we don't know the strain Phase I is putting on our vehicles with the stock/mismatched emissions components. It could be harming our engines to the point where it's possible that they fail just past warranty coverage. As for me, I'm getting Phase II done as soon as it's offered to me, as long as the dealership has a few under their belt already. I definitely don't want to be the guinnea pig, but I want my car to be setup the way it was designed, including software AND hardware.

roni024 said:

I think the point people are missing with delaying Phase II as long as possible is that we don't know the strain Phase I is putting on our vehicles with the stock/mismatched emissions components. It could be harming our engines to the point where it's possible that they fail just past warranty coverage. As for me, I'm getting Phase II done as soon as it's offered to me, as long as the dealership has a few under their belt already. I definitely don't want to be the guinnea pig, but I want my car to be setup the way it was designed, including software AND hardware.

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Then you should not have purchased a buy back car or any of them for that matter. None were designed for any of this extra emissions equipment. They were redesigned though for each of these parts by the original manufacturer and approved by the EPA and CARB to name a few. So I don't know what your issue is. I really doubt there is an issue with any of this harming the car, in part or whole. Most posters issue is trying to maximize the warranty coverage as much as possible. I will get mine done when I think the time is right for me.

Just in case it wasn't clear, using your car makes it wear out... I guess we should stop using our cars until the Illuminati force automakers to find a solution.

16vjohn said:

Just in case it wasn't clear, using your car makes it wear out... I guess we should stop using our cars until the Illuminati force automakers to find a solution.

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They already have. Buy a new one.

The posts on this thread have the same tone as on the flipper thread. “It says it right here so we are golden!!” Hope springs eternal. All I’d say is don’t bet the farm on a 220K mile warranty.

Mythdoc said:

The posts on this thread have the same tone as on the flipper thread. “It says it right here so we are golden!!” Hope springs eternal. All I’d say is don’t bet the farm on a 220K mile warranty.

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Well let us know where it says otherwise. That’s what a judge or arbitrator is interested in.

Blue_Hen_TDI said:

Well let us know where it says otherwise. That’s what a judge or arbitrator is interested in.

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You just supported my point. Word for word from the flipper thread.

Mythdoc said:

You just supported my point. Word for word from the flipper thread.

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I have no idea what you're talking about, but you still didn't answer the question. What have you found in the Phase 2 letter that contradicts the 5yr/60K additional warranty after date of Phase 2 fix, or a stated deadline for when the phase 2 fix must be complete?


I'll wait on your answer, because you'll be the first to find something that nobody else read in their letters.

The dieselgate settlement, to the frustration of many speculators in crashed cars here, involves language that is subject to change and reinterpretation. I do not think the negotiators intended to give all cars but the 2015’s a 162K mile warranty and the 2015’s as much as a 220K whatever warranty, simply because the fix for these cars had an additional phase, nor did they intend to invite owners to delay having the second phase done in an attempt to game the warranty. That defies common sense.

That’s as clear as I can make my position.

Everything in life is subject to change, even legal cases. Sometimes it is just better to take what you get in a timely manner and be happy with what you got. Kind of like "A bird in the hand...".

Mythdoc said:

The dieselgate settlement, to the frustration of many speculators in crashed cars here, involves language that is subject to change and reinterpretation. I do not think the negotiators intended to give all cars but the 2015’s a 162K mile warranty and the 2015’s as much as a 220K whatever warranty, simply because the fix for these cars had an additional phase, nor did they intend to invite owners to delay having the second phase done in an attempt to game the warranty. That defies common sense.

That’s as clear as I can make my position.

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OK, let me know when you find something that says the 5yr/60K after Phase 2 has been rescinded.

The original settlement was amended after some tried to strip their cars to the bone and other bone headed stunts. It was amended again with the salvage cars. It is possible it could be amended again to change the conditions of the phase 2 fix requirements/benefits. I don't know how you can't seem to understand that is a possibility. We aren't saying the current document says this, only that it could be changed at a later date due to circumstances. You would have to be trying hard not to understand at this point. The only thing that is certain is death. All other things have the possibility of change.

Oh no doubt. I was just talking about right now.

Even if there isn't a published timeline, VW is only has a year or so left of financial responsibility. They aren't going to be fixing these after the initial rush. They'll have some bean counters figuring out the optimal time to stop fixing whatever is left, just like they're doing with buybacks now, and then the holdouts will get screwed. The numbers are intended to give high mileage vehicles as least as much as low mileage ones.

I turned in a 2012 JSW in 2015 with 130K that would fall under #2 since #1 only offers 32K left of coverage. A warranty that covers an 11 year old car with 200K miles is really good value, but you have to rack those 70K within five years (must do at least 15K per year).

I bought a 2015 GSW with 60K that will fall under #1 since #2 only offers another 5 miles or 70K. This car will end up being covered until 2026 or 162K miles, which is a few months over 6 1/2 years (driving the same minimum of 15K per year).

These are the numbers based on the assumption VW will not offer the fixes for longer than a year or two, which is the safer assumption I believe given the way they've acted so far.

Again, these are all nice hypotheses and assumptions, but the letter doesn’t say any of that.

Blue_Hen_TDI said:

Again, these are all nice hypotheses and assumptions, but the letter doesn’t say any of that.

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I think you need to familiarize yourself with the terms of the settlement. It absolutely does have a threshold that VW has to meet and that's all they are *required* to do.

There will be an initial rush. Then dealerships will stop participating. Then appointments will start to dry up. Then eventually they'll just stop offering the fix.

You're assuming they'll be offering phase 2 years from now. Where does it say that regardless of how many people get their cars fixed, you're *guaranteed* a fix? Most people are going to schedule phase 2 when they get the letter.

VW doesn't have to ask for a change to the settlement for what I'm saying to occur--the language is already in there.

I’m just trying to find where the cutoff date is. If you could provide that for me it’d be great. My letter doesn’t contain one. Since you know everything about the settlement, please link me to a document with the Phase 2 cutoff date. Otherwise, you’re just making assumptions.

You're being deliberately obtuse. You're not "trying to find where the cutoff date is," you're just arguing because you refuse to let go of your futile plan regardless of the facts. There isn't any "phase 2 cutoff date" that I'm aware of and I never claimed there was. The settlement is clear that VW only has to reach something like 85% compliance. After that, they will roll up shop.

The assumption you are making is that VW will continue to offer the fix after they've passed the compliance threshold, which is a ridiculous and unfounded belief to keep based on VW's actions and the terms of the settlement.

Other members have already pointed out that the settlement terms have been changed multiple times after the fact in order to accommodate the participants' vision of how it should be implemented, but that's not even relevant to my point since my scenario is strictly within the terms of the settlement as it currently exists.

bizzle said:

You're being deliberately obtuse. You're not "trying to find where the cutoff date is," you're just arguing because you refuse to let go of your futile plan regardless of the facts. There isn't any "phase 2 cutoff date" that I'm aware of and I never claimed there was. The settlement is clear that VW only has to reach something like 85% compliance. After that, they will roll up shop.

The assumption you are making is that VW will continue to offer the fix after they've passed the compliance threshold, which is a ridiculous and unfounded belief to keep based on VW's actions and the terms of the settlement.

Other members have already pointed out that the settlement terms have been changed multiple times after the fact in order to accommodate the participants' vision of how it should be implemented, but that's not even relevant to my point since my scenario is strictly within the terms of the settlement as it currently exists.

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Nope, not being obtuse. I read my letter. It says I get warranty of 5years or 60K miles after date of Phase 2 fix. That seems quite clear, unless you have something you can show me in writing stating otherwise.


I'm not saying the leter won't be amended at some future point, but it's all I have to go on at this point in time.


You seem aggravated. Sorry. I like to deal in facts instead of assumptions. It has served me well in my 22 year (so far) career in interpreting federal contract law.

Blue_Hen_TDI said:

Nope, not being obtuse. I read my letter. It says I get warranty of 5years or 60K miles after date of Phase 2 fix. That seems quite clear, unless you have something you can show me in writing stating otherwise.


I'm not saying the leter won't be amended at some future point, but it's all I have to go on at this point in time.


You seem aggravated. Sorry. I like to deal in facts instead of assumptions. It has served me well in my 22 year (so far) career in interpreting federal contract law.

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Best of luck with your plan.

I suggest you familiarize yourself with the terms of the settlement if the letter is "all [you] have to go on at this point in time."

Do let us know how it goes after 2019.

bizzle said:

Best of luck with your plan.
I suggest you familiarize yourself with the terms of the settlement if the letter is "all [you] have to go on at this point in time."

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And I’m asking you to show me where it says in the terms of the settlement, since it’s clearly not in the Phase 2 letter, what the cutoff date is for the Phase 2 fix. You can’t seem to provide one. You just keep bringing up this generality of “terms of the settlement” and making assumptions.

Blue_Hen_TDI said:

And I’m asking you to show me where it says in the terms of the settlement, since it’s clearly not in the Phase 2 letter, what the cutoff date is for the Phase 2 fix. You can’t seem to provide one. You just keep bringing up this generality of “terms of the settlement” and making assumptions.

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I've written in multiple places that the settlement requires VW to resolve 85% of the cases by 2019. After that date, they have to pay fines to reach compliance and won't be obligated to buy back or fix any other vehicles still on the road.

You completely ignored my comments in that regard and went back to the non-sequitur that the settlement could be amended but that it hasn't been yet. I'm describing to you the settlement terms as originally written and as it currently stands--no amendments necessary.

bizzle said:

I've written in multiple places that the settlement requires VW to resolve 85% of the cases by 2019. After that date, they have to pay fines to reach compliance and won't be obligated to buy back or fix any other vehicles still on the road.

You completely ignored my comments in that regard and went back to the non-sequitur that the settlement could be amended but that it hasn't been yet. I'm describing to you the settlement terms as originally written and as it currently stands--no amendments necessary.

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So what is the cutoff date for Phase 2 repairs? That is important to me for warranty purposes, and if VW fails to provide one or had an error or omission in their Phase 2 letter, then I expect to be covered per the letter, and my case would be solid in court.

This is a consumer matter, not an EPA compliance matter. You seem confused on that point.

The long warranty will require them to keep parts on hand for some long time. Later fixes shouldn't necessarily be an issue. What will VW do in 10 years if you have a warranty issue and they have no parts available?

That, and some vehicles will need the phase-2 parts more than once in thier lifetime.

And I suspect that availability of the fix may well have absolutely lthing to do withthe 85% figure - it all depends on what the written settlement demands/dicates. As far as I know, 85% by date X has to do with penalties, nothing more . . .

@BlueHen
Demanding I show you a piece of paper that contradicts your piece of paper is a weird argument. This is actually not about you and your paper, but about whether it is likely that the 2015’s, alone of all the dieselgate cars, were intended to have a 222K mile warranty instead of 162K. I am not going to “prove you wrong,” because I am not going to try for a 222K mile warranty, which I am quite sure I am not meant to have, as reasoned above. You go right ahead and try, with your magic piece of paper which will overcome any and all arguments or amendments to the settlement you may come up against. After all, you have 22 years of experience with federal law, and you know what plain English says, right? But while you are waiting to accrue those miles, look at the “Salvage Titles” thread and see how plain English worked for the dieselgate strippers and crash car flippers.

Others who are not so bull headed as yourself can make up their own minds whether to try for a 222K mile warranty. I’ve said my last on this particular point.

Mythdoc said:

@BlueHen
Demanding I show you a piece of paper that contradicts your piece of paper is a weird argument. This is actually not about you and your paper, but about whether it is likely that the 2015’s, alone of all the dieselgate cars, were intended to have a 222K mile warranty instead of 162K. I am not going to “prove you wrong,” because I am not going to try for a 222K mile warranty, which I am quite sure I am not meant to have, as reasoned above. You go right ahead and try, with your magic piece of paper which will overcome any and all arguments or amendments to the settlement you may come up against. After all, you have 22 years of experience with federal law, and you know what plain English says, right? But while you are waiting to accrue those miles, look at the “Salvage Titles” thread and see how plain English worked for the dieselgate strippers and crash car flippers.

Others who are not so bull headed as yourself can make up their own minds whether to try for a 222K mile warranty. I’ve said my last on this particular point.

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Nice! And if you find that cutoff date on the Phase 2 fix, let me know. I don't want to miss it.

tdi4ty said:

I'm new to this form (but also a long-time member of VWVortex). Just wanted to share my side of the Phase 2 fix. I have a '15 TDI Golf Sportwagen with the DSG. The car went in on 5/4/18 for Phase 2. It took them until yesterday afternoon, 5/10 to complete the fix on the wagon (according to the tech, they had multiple issues with my wagon that they kept on running into). All said and done, I received the car with no outstanding issues. Not even 10 minutes into my drive home, the check engine light came on and I lost almost all power to the vehicle. I had to limp back to the dealership and had the GM help me push the vehicle into a parking spot. I had the Phase 2 Part-B performed as my TDI is at 42,000 miles. I will note that the software update completely changed the way the DSG shifts. It was lagging behind shifts in 'D' and also held the shifts until 3100 rpms, unlike before it would shift at 2,000 rpms. I hope it is something simple, but at this point we aren't sure. I'll see what they say.

Anyone else get Phase 2 completed?

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I think this is a learning curve for all VW techs; good and bad. However, it took my dealer less than two days to do the job and I haven't had any issues. Mine was one of the first few they completed. They also had replace my shifter assembly while they were at under a completely unrelated issue. So this goes back to what I always tell people. Not all dealers are created equally, thus not all dealer techs are created the same! It has nothing to do with the quality of the fix.

As far as the way your DSG was reacting. I had the same thing, but it eventually got way better. It doesn't upshift so late anymore. It seems almost better than before.

bizzle said:

You're being deliberately obtuse. You're not "trying to find where the cutoff date is," you're just arguing because you refuse to let go of your futile plan regardless of the facts. There isn't any "phase 2 cutoff date" that I'm aware of and I never claimed there was. The settlement is clear that VW only has to reach something like 85% compliance. After that, they will roll up shop.

The assumption you are making is that VW will continue to offer the fix after they've passed the compliance threshold, which is a ridiculous and unfounded belief to keep based on VW's actions and the terms of the settlement.

Other members have already pointed out that the settlement terms have been changed multiple times after the fact in order to accommodate the participants' vision of how it should be implemented, but that's not even relevant to my point since my scenario is strictly within the terms of the settlement as it currently exists.

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Just to shed some light on a possible cutoff... If you live in the state of CA, the recall fix will eventually get put in your DMV record. The DMV will require you to have a certificate called "proof of correction". It's a little orange slip that the dealer fills out and signs that proves to the state that said recall has been completed. This happens to many vehicles, not just Volkswagens. Eventually, you will have to get the recall completed before you can do anything with the DMV in regards to your vehicle. You will not be able to renew your registration, transfer ownership etc. You should also not be able to pass SMOG. You are notified on your renewal notice if this proof of correction becomes required. Other states will also most likely have such system to make you get the recall done. It depends on the state though. I know for sure CA will do this, if it hasn't already.