Xerootg's Jeep Cherokee BHW swap

xerootg

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Location
USA
TDI
Mk7 Golf Sportwagen, BHW Jeep XJ
Hey guys, I haven’t given up. Crazy times around here! My B5.5’s transmission started slipping (shocker, I know) and the mk7’s are now legal to sell… so I bought a MK7 Sportwagen. Its white. I’m going to park the B5.5 to cut up into another swap. Anyway…

Since my last post, the kitchen is usable, and I can now start working on the swap again.

I shortened and installed the fuel pump into its permanent home.





I bought a gtc1549vz off a CR 177 on ebay at the peak of the crash of the pound ($300 shipped!) with 9000km on it!



I replaced the thermostat housing with a cast aluminum housing



I reworked the coolant pipe to match a BRM, to delete unneeded stubs. This is a view from the back of the engine.



I made up some PCBs for the CCD to CAN translator, loooots of work needed on this front:


I started playing with mounting the new turbo…



Which lead to paper templates…



Which lead to a CAD model.



Test fitting, it looks like a great fit! A friend is going to make the actual adapter for me on his 3d printer for mockup purposes and then he’s going to mill it for me.

I also have a lead on a NOS 6-speed. I’m getting really excited!
 

xerootg

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Location
USA
TDI
Mk7 Golf Sportwagen, BHW Jeep XJ
OP what did you decide to go with for an intercooler? I'm curious to see if the entire front rad/intercooler/condenser arrangement from either the factory 2.1 or 2.5 diesel rigs could be utilized for a swap.
I'm having a hard time finding pictures of either of these arrangements (doesn't help that Photobucket is holding everybody's build pictures hostage...) would you mind sharing a pic of the factory cooler you're considering?
From what I can gather the 2.5 (VM425??) mounts the intecooler behind a full-width radiator; is this true?
What about the 2.1 Renault rigs? Is the intercooler off to the side of a narrow rad. or is it also "stacked"?

Anxious to see some progress on your build soon!
I am going to try to use the 2.5 intercooler, the math a couple posts back shows its probably able to keep up with my heat demands. Possibly not with the gtc1549vz. Don't know yet. I know its boring, all that math, but the details are in that post.

The 2.5 intercooler fits in the radiator support, and those holes that are in the support from the factory are there for the intercooler.



 

Motohead1

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2016
Location
charlotte
TDI
2002 bug+telephone pole
Nice score on the turbo for sure. I looked for one and couldent find a deal to go on my swap in time and ended up with a BV43a. They are similar enough but the gtc1549vz is supposed to be better from what I read.

Ill be interested to see you work through than CAN stuff.
 

xerootg

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Location
USA
TDI
Mk7 Golf Sportwagen, BHW Jeep XJ
Nice score on the turbo for sure. I looked for one and couldent find a deal to go on my swap in time and ended up with a BV43a. They are similar enough but the gtc1549vz is supposed to be better from what I read.

Ill be interested to see you work through than CAN stuff.
I had to use ebay.de to find it. For some reason, even when the worldwide location filter was selected, the options were all very worn or expensive.

As to the CAN work... your swap is a great candidate when I have a running board if your interested. My goal is to keep the remaining CCD stuff (dash, airbags) working without the ECU, yet emulating all of the existing ECU provided data. The ECU in my Jeep has always been flaky anyway.

I'm also debating getting a EDC15P based harness since the BHW was never manual or had coolant glow plugs. I keep reading about stuff just not working after a Malone tune on swaps. Look at GoremanX's A4 swap, he can choose between having an AC or having cruise. Anyone have opinions on this route?
 

Motohead1

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2016
Location
charlotte
TDI
2002 bug+telephone pole
I had to use ebay.de to find it. For some reason, even when the worldwide location filter was selected, the options were all very worn or expensive.

As to the CAN work... your swap is a great candidate when I have a running board if your interested. My goal is to keep the remaining CCD stuff (dash, airbags) working without the ECU, yet emulating all of the existing ECU provided data. The ECU in my Jeep has always been flaky anyway.

I'm also debating getting a EDC15P based harness since the BHW was never manual or had coolant glow plugs. I keep reading about stuff just not working after a Malone tune on swaps. Look at GoremanX's A4 swap, he can choose between having an AC or having cruise. Anyone have opinions on this route?
Just use the jeep to trigger the AC clutch like normal. Im doing that with my truck. its analog so no need to overthink it. One wire easy.
 

vwztips

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Location
Greenville, SC
TDI
2005 Passat GLS Wagon TDI 5 spd manual w/BSM delete 2011 Tiguan TDI/DSG 2005 Audi A4 Avant 6MQ TDI 2011 BMW X5 35d
I had no issues with the tune from Mike at TDTuning when I installed a BHW into an AllRoad which had the climatronic system.
 

A-man930

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2014
Location
St. Louis
TDI
Planning Stages: ALH Jeep MJ
The 2.5 intercooler fits in the radiator support, and those holes that are in the support from the factory are there for the intercooler.
Thanks for clearing that up!

Wondering what's done for a cooling fan down there though...?
 

Kriesel

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Location
Afton, MN
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
I am going to try to use the 2.5 intercooler, the math a couple posts back shows its probably able to keep up with my heat demands. Possibly not with the gtc1549vz. Don't know yet. I know its boring, all that math, but the details are in that post.
The 2.5 intercooler fits in the radiator support, and those holes that are in the support from the factory are there for the intercooler.

Nice work, I had been using ebay.co.uk to find the intercooler for my XJ diesel swap. I ordered one, and got the wrong one in the mail, and so with shipping costs I put that on the back burner and went without an intercooler for now...

I've read (cant find the links anymore) that some people were cutting holes in the bumper of the XJ to allow more airflow, because the bumper is right in front of those holes for the intercooler. Something similar to the holes on the bumper skin of the GMC truck:


Or upgrade to something like this haha:
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showpost.php?p=245994696&postcount=80
 

xerootg

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Location
USA
TDI
Mk7 Golf Sportwagen, BHW Jeep XJ
Thanks for clearing that up!
Wondering what's done for a cooling fan down there though...?
Found a picture just now while looking for a LHD diesel dash bezel on ebay.de:



There's also an air guide between the intercooler and body. I cant seem to find either part... and I've emailed several European yards.

The NSG370 is on the way, minus a shift lever. I found one on ebay for $60, but I think I am going to try one of the local yards to see if I can find a cheaper one.

TDTuning seems to think an EDC15P and harness would actually be the better route. I'm not married to the EDC16, but I also know lots of people have been successful with the EDC16. The biggest advantage to the EDC15P is that there's a lot of documentation and flexibility in that setup, along with good FREE tuning tools. The biggest advantage to the EDC16 is parts availability in the USA. Sensors and all should be pretty universal... so its really only the ECU that's the parts availability issue. EDC15Ps are pretty cheap... I don't know. I may just do EDC15P so I can attempt my own tune.
 

A-man930

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2014
Location
St. Louis
TDI
Planning Stages: ALH Jeep MJ
Found a picture just now while looking for a LHD diesel dash bezel on ebay.de:

There's also an air guide between the intercooler and body. I cant seem to find either part... and I've emailed several European yards.
I like that design more and more, thanks again!
Now tell me that this arrangement will work as-is with a North American LHD 4.0 rad, condenser, etc and I'll start looking for one tomorrow :D
 

xerootg

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Location
USA
TDI
Mk7 Golf Sportwagen, BHW Jeep XJ
Hey guys, it’s been a while since I last updated! Life just never stops, especially for projects as long running as these. I’ve got quite the list of things out of the way, and the engine is in the Jeep!
The starter contacts the bellhousing of the NEW NSG370 that I found, so out came the sanding drum.


Once that was out of the way, I replaced the rear main seal and bolted up the adapter, along with a new centerforce extra heavy flywheel and a LuK clutch and pressure plate



When I bolted the transmission to the adapter, I figured out that the coolant flange outlets both contact the bellhousing, so I cut both up, drilled and tapped the housings and used Loctite 577 to permanently seal everything. I am super happy with the final product.



My wife got me a crawl box for Christmas, so expect some epic crawl ratios!

 

xerootg

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Location
USA
TDI
Mk7 Golf Sportwagen, BHW Jeep XJ
The Jeep moved into the garage this fall in anticipation of having time to pull the engine this winter. That paid off, last weekend I pulled the engine!







The engine slipped right into the engine bay, unfortunately the compressor that I obsessed over fitting in the stock position contacts the frame.




 

xerootg

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Location
USA
TDI
Mk7 Golf Sportwagen, BHW Jeep XJ
The compressor bracket from EBay by some miracle bolted right up to the existing holes in the block on the other side and clears everything, so that might be home.



I also moved the powersteering pump up. I fabbed up a bracket out of ¼” steel and a couple 17mm spacers to replicate the proper offset for the belt.





Next steps:
  • Serpentine idler situation needs some work
  • Pull the engine
  • Clean/paint the engine bay
  • Drop the fuel tank
  • Run new fuel lines
  • Put the engine back in (final time?)
  • Cooling
  • Intercooling
  • AC plumbing
  • Wiring
 

A-man930

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2014
Location
St. Louis
TDI
Planning Stages: ALH Jeep MJ
Was that AC bracket listed for a 1.8t in a Passat or A4?
I dig the water neck modification!
 

xerootg

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Location
USA
TDI
Mk7 Golf Sportwagen, BHW Jeep XJ
The AC bracket is a generic York to sanden bracket. No make in particular. I've seen a couple iterations on eBay, including a cast iron one and a handful of welded plate ones. Mine is the welded plate version.

 

d0u8l3m

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2014
Location
Connecticut
TDI
B5.5 Passat
Nice been waiting for some updates to this. Hows the pan clearance to your front diff? Did you make the motor mounts yourself?
 

xerootg

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Location
USA
TDI
Mk7 Golf Sportwagen, BHW Jeep XJ
Heya!

Nice been waiting for some updates to this. Hows the pan clearance to your front diff? Did you make the motor mounts yourself?
The front diff is offset from the oilpan, and I'm not concerned about it. I tried taking a picture to show just how much room there is, but I just couldn't do it justice. I will most likely have the front axle torn apart for a WJ knuckle swap, truss, C gussets, and sleeves. I'll get better access to that when its all apart.

I used EVGuy's motor mounts mounts. They have been pretty straightforward, but I have modified them to include a turbo brace as featured on the BHW.

Its been a couple weeks since I last had a chance to work on this. I've nailed down my belt routing, finalized the transmission clocking, and hopefully put the engine in for the last time.

I liked the compressor location as featured last time, but I can't do anything simple apparently, and figured I could get the compressor a little closer to the block. I was already struggling to get the belt routed with the last layout, and the idler options and locations sucked. I found a nice small 55mm idler that's used on some diesel that was in the Grand Cherokee. Dayco 89535, Four Seasons 45908 pulley bushing and a MOPAR 6503230 spacer. The bearing is of the correct perspective that it will not be outside of its safe operating speed when used with the TDI crank pulley.

I have been using some 1/8" plywood for mocking up my brackets, this is no different. Its super easy to work with and can be used to actually see how things mount. I used my spare block to test fit everything.



When everything was mounted on the spare block, I could more easily mock up a brace for the rear of the compressor:


I lopped the power steering mount off the accessory mount while I had everything off the block for testing:


Here's the completed mount shy one idler:


I am super happy with how this turned out! I scanned the final bracket if anyone wanted to replicate it.



The final belt size is K60740. Ill be getting a Continental Elite before I start driving this thing, thats just a $10 belt from amazon. I love Goodyear Gatorbacks, but they've been renamed.

The clocking of the transmission was off, I chose the middle of the three holes for my first stab, apparently I should have used the most clockwise hole. Engine out, engine back in!



Much better, however the TJ shift tower puts the shift cane right into the dash in any of the upper gears. I'll be ordering a B&M short shifter, hopefully that moves everything a little further forward.



Here's the opening in the floor with the AX15 specific adapter removed:



Which begs the question... how much should be trimmed from the stock shroud? Is there some sort of "standard" gap between the body and the transmission shift tower?
 

PickleRick

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Location
Greenville sc
TDI
05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
This is why i love body lifts! Sadly i realize you can't use one. You need just enough where your mounts wont allow your power train to hit the body or frame when max torque is applied.

Id say go back with what clearance you had originally as a good starting point.
 

evguy1

Vendor
Joined
Feb 8, 2014
Location
Erington, BC, Canada
TDI
2000 Jeep Cherokee TDI, 2008 Jeep JKU TDI
I usually bend the shaft. Here is a posting from my XJ build:


Started on modifying the shifter.
When the trans was moved forward the 3" for firewall clearance it meant the shifter also moved forward and would hit the dash.
I heated up and bent the lower shifter so it was straight on the top half.
Once its installed and the console in place I can bend the upper shifter shaft to match the stock angle.

 

Kriesel

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Location
Afton, MN
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
however the TJ shift tower puts the shift cane right into the dash in any of the upper gears. I'll be ordering a B&M short shifter, hopefully that moves everything a little further forward.
Wouldn't a shifter from an AX15 cherokee do the trick? When I swapped my automatic for an ax15, I used one and it fits without modification. My ax15 came out of a wrangler, and then I think I found the shift lever from a Cherokee off ebay. Gotta be careful not to get the ax5 shifter. The ax5 shifter will fit, but I think you need a spacer when bolting it to the ax15.

Untitled by Jacob Kriesel, on Flickr
 

xerootg

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Location
USA
TDI
Mk7 Golf Sportwagen, BHW Jeep XJ
This is why i love body lifts! Sadly i realize you can't use one. You need just enough where your mounts wont allow your power train to hit the body or frame when max torque is applied. Id say go back with what clearance you had originally as a good starting point.
This seems like some sage advice, but I didnt think to look at the floor spacing before pulling everything. I'll probably be scouring the interwebs looking for a picture today.

I usually bend the shaft.
The lever on the NGS370 is integrated into the tower, and is some strange forged mess. I'm not sure how receptive to bending it is... but the thought has crossed my mind. Did you have to modify your floor to accomodate the move?

Wouldn't a shifter from an AX15 cherokee do the trick?
I spy a NP242! I absolutely love manual transmissions and mechanical AWD! The NGS370 has a fairly complex shift tower, so the AX15 style lever won't fit or work.
 

evguy1

Vendor
Joined
Feb 8, 2014
Location
Erington, BC, Canada
TDI
2000 Jeep Cherokee TDI, 2008 Jeep JKU TDI
I would think the steel shift lever must come out of the aluminum housing somehow. You have to heat the lever red hot to bend it. I must have heated and rebent mine a dozen times to get it just right. I did the same thing on my Dakota NV4500.
 

Kriesel

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Location
Afton, MN
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
Oh ok, I mis-read and thought you were using the ax15. I now realize you are using the NGS370, which is a good option too. I don't know as much about that transmission
 

xerootg

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Location
USA
TDI
Mk7 Golf Sportwagen, BHW Jeep XJ
Good news! B&M 45195 is a perfect fit! I knew JK parts were useful for something... ;)



Just a side by side:



Its a pretty big difference.

Just for grins I installed the console to see how everything fits, and I am super excited!



Next step: Cut a hole in the transfer case tunnel since the driveline is 9" longer than it ever was with a 4.0 since I have the crawl box installed. (don't mind the gap, its just a test fit)

 

greengeeker

Vendor
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Location
Cambridge, MN
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS
I am super happy with how this turned out! I scanned the final bracket if anyone wanted to replicate it.
Nice work! Two thoughts - I would want to stiffen up that idler support some (just to the right of the compressor). Also, if you run into tracking issues with your belt, you could utilize the vr6 tensioner pulley (see my ranger build) which is grooved.
 

xerootg

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Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Location
USA
TDI
Mk7 Golf Sportwagen, BHW Jeep XJ
Nice work! Two thoughts - I would want to stiffen up that idler support some (just to the right of the compressor). Also, if you run into tracking issues with your belt, you could utilize the vr6 tensioner pulley (see my ranger build) which is grooved.
Thanks! I'll keep that idler in mind, but it's 69mm, which is probably too big without a different bracket. Hopefully I don't have tracking issues. By my math I have less than .01mm of misalignment across the whole belt drive.

As to the threaded coupler used as a pulley mount - I considered bracing it with a small triangle and a good weld, but when I saw how much heavier the walls of the coupler are compared to several OEM pull standoffs, I didn't bother. Were you thinking it would flex? It's got a 17mm outer hex face. The second option I have, there's a guy on eBay that makes mild steel threaded standoffs for a reasonable price. He has a 25mm od standoff that has m10 x 1.5 threads, and I'd just weld that directly to the bracket and call it a day. McMaster Carr also has some class 10 30mm long m10 thread couplers that might also be up to the task.
 
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