AdBlue and Fuel Pump Failure

AtlantaRene

Well-known member
Joined
May 12, 2012
Location
Atlanta, GA
TDI
2012 Passat TDI SE DSG w/Sunroof and Nav
I am sorry to say that I had two failures in my 2012 VW Passat since purchasing my car in April and over the last 6000 miles. The AdBlue pump failure it was replaced at a charge of $1121 to warranty. At my request, the local service center operated the car and where they put 34 miles on it to assure that the problem would not reoccur.

When, I got the back and it was not performing properly, I felt as if I was robbed of torque – so much so I literally had to floor the car to get it to accelerate aggressively. I drove the car a whole 96 miles until the fuel pump failure. Though the dealer did not confirm the contaminate was gas, they stated gas in the fuel system is the most likely cause “because the fuel pump came apart”. From the repair invoice, it appears they replaced the majority of the pieces in the fuel system.

Now here the odd part, according to my mileage spreadsheet, I filled up with 16 gallons of diesel in mid-August and the fuel pump failed in September. The car was operated for 501 miles. The only time that the car was out of my supervision was when the car was at the dealer. The car had less than a ¼ tank of fuel at failure. I just received a call today that my car is done, somehow they managed to replace $4580 of parts for $830 of labor.
Total repair costs for an AdBlue pump and fuel pump billed to factory warranty is $6530.

At this point, I am frustrated, I don’t know if the contaminate was from water, gas or something else that would pass through a fuel filter. I don’t know the local fuel station, the dealer screwed and put in some gas, or I have a defective fuel pump.

I’ve opened a complaint on the “VW Cares” line and spoke to the regional customer advocate at VW. They were very tight lipped, as if a lawyer had trained them. I had to struggle with them just to assure that my complaint was recorded properly. They did not want to discuss any of my concerns and I have received absolutely no sympathy. I didn’t even get the phrase, “Sorry to hear that you are having these problems.” They only seemed to be interested in getting the car back to me. Personally, I see this as a huge lack of customer service. I am still waiting for a followup callback from her to supposedly discuss my concerns.

This is my first VW, my first TDI from any brand, I’m addicted to torque, and I absolutely love the way the car handles; however, the recent failures and my service experience has lead me to question if I will be a VW owner for long.

AtlantaRene
2012 Passat TDI SE 6065 miles
 

VeeDubTDI

Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 2, 2000
Location
Springfield, VA
TDI
‘18 Tesla Model 3D+, ‘14 Cadillac ELR, ‘13 Fiat 500e
Interesting! You're the first one that I know of to have a fuel pump failure. Replacement/repair of this failure on the Passat is considerably less expensive than the commonrail engines with piezo injectors.

As long as they got you fixed up, I wouldn't worry about it. For now, you're the unlucky one in a huge sample size.
 

tditom

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 5, 2001
Location
Jackson, MI
TDI
formerly: 2001 Golf GL, '97 Passat (RIP) '98 NB, '05 B5 sedan
...The AdBlue pump failure it was replaced at a charge of $1121 to warranty. At my request, the local service center operated the car and where they put 34 miles on it to assure that the problem would not reoccur.

When, I got the back and it was not performing properly, I felt as if I was robbed of torque – so much so I literally had to floor the car to get it to accelerate aggressively. I drove the car a whole 96 miles until the fuel pump failure. Though the dealer did not confirm the contaminate was gas, they stated gas in the fuel system is the most likely cause “because the fuel pump came apart”. From the repair invoice, it appears they replaced the majority of the pieces in the fuel system.

Now here the odd part, according to my mileage spreadsheet, I filled up with 16 gallons of diesel in mid-August and the fuel pump failed in September. The car was operated for 501 miles. The only time that the car was out of my supervision was when the car was at the dealer. The car had less than a ¼ tank of fuel at failure. I just received a call today that my car is done, somehow they managed to replace $4580 of parts for $830 of labor.
Total repair costs for an AdBlue pump and fuel pump billed to factory warranty is $6530.

At this point, I am frustrated, I don’t know if the contaminate was from water, gas or something else that would pass through a fuel filter. I don’t know the local fuel station, the dealer screwed and put in some gas, or I have a defective fuel pump.

...
From your description, I conclude that the dealer screwed up your car- quite possibly by putting gas in the tank.

If it would have been the fuel you filled with in August then that problem would have manifested itself before then.

I'd not be overly concerned about the source of the bad fuel. And if your fuel pump was defective then it is not anymore since they replaced it.

I recommend that you pick one local fuel station to use, and keep copies of all your fuel receipts. I would also use a lubricity additive.

Good luck, and enjoy your car
 

AtlantaRene

Well-known member
Joined
May 12, 2012
Location
Atlanta, GA
TDI
2012 Passat TDI SE DSG w/Sunroof and Nav
I wonder if some bozo at the dealer put petrol in the tank?
I reported the facts as I know them. I am sure that I will never know if I should be disappointed with my dealer or disappointed with VW. My reason for complaining to VW is they are responsible for the conduct of both.

AtlantaRene
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Volkswagen (VOA and VAG both) will be the first to tell you they are most certainly not responsible for what the dealers do or don't do. Independantly owned, and trust me you'd pretty much have to plant a bomb in Wolfsburg to get a franchise yanked... crazy.... :p
 

shelbydog25

Active member
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Location
Virginia
TDI
2012 DSG Passat SE
my $ is on the dealership misfueled it when they conducted their 50+ miles of test driving. Based on your post, the dealeship fixed the fuel pump/system components on warranty, without any questions if you misfueled. seems to point to me as as admission, withou admitting it. ;)

If so, this doesn't indicate a defective fuel pump on the passats. I too haven't seen any reporst of fuel pumps going bad on these. we have 8,500 miles on ours since purchase in Late June. no issues.
 

AtlantaRene

Well-known member
Joined
May 12, 2012
Location
Atlanta, GA
TDI
2012 Passat TDI SE DSG w/Sunroof and Nav
Volkswagen (VOA and VAG both) will be the first to tell you they are most certainly not responsible for what the dealers do or don't do. Independantly owned, and trust me you'd pretty much have to plant a bomb in Wolfsburg to get a franchise yanked... crazy.... :p
Yes, you have a point there. Up until this problem, I had an excellent relationship with dealer. However, if you suspect the dealer screwed up, it's necessary to bring in a third party. You really have no choice... We will never hear a dealer say "We screwed up and you will be without your car for two weeks for $6500 of service."

AtlantaRene
 

kydsid

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2012
Location
Texas
TDI
2012 Passat
Well if nothing else take away that you made me feel infinitely better by posting the cost of the fuel pump replacment. That is significantly cheaper than reported by others with and it does make me feel better should anything happen.
 

VeeDubTDI

Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 2, 2000
Location
Springfield, VA
TDI
‘18 Tesla Model 3D+, ‘14 Cadillac ELR, ‘13 Fiat 500e
Agreed!

I'm also in the camp that thinks the dealer put a few gallons of gas in your tank during their test driving period.
 

AtlantaRene

Well-known member
Joined
May 12, 2012
Location
Atlanta, GA
TDI
2012 Passat TDI SE DSG w/Sunroof and Nav
No need for a loaner -- I have two cars and two motorcycles in the stable.

I had a long discussion with the service manager at the dealer and then met the mechanic that worked on my car. They spent more time with me than most service managers would. My impression is the dealer didn't screw up. They were informative of telling me the history of the issue with the fuel pumps, the frequency of this issue is declining, and they gave examples of VW's sensitivity to the issue -- including the effort with Bosch's continually improve on the high pressure fuel pumps for the American market. As others have mentioned, I think it appears that I might be the one out of a reasonable size sample.

I also confirmed that Passat's fuel system is simpler than other models and the cost of repairing it is less.

I hope I have no serious problems going forward.

AtlantaRene
 

Lightflyer1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
Did they tell you the history of initially refusing to cover it and blaming the customer for the issue and denying there was any problem at all? Go read some of the hpfp threads here, especially the older ones. Did they tell you about the current NHTSA investigation going on for the older models? They have almost been dragged kicking and screaming to recognise that some have had great issues with this because of the high cost to repair out of warranty. No one wants to hear the Passats have the issue as well no matter how slight the percentage is. I would rather hear it was gas, just to take the issue away from the hpfp grenading on its own.
 

TomB

Veteran Member
Joined
May 1, 2003
Location
Cle Elum, Washington/Las Vegas, Nevada
TDI
2015 Audi TDI Prestige Sport
No need for a loaner -- I have two cars and two motorcycles in the stable.

I had a long discussion with the service manager at the dealer and then met the mechanic that worked on my car. They spent more time with me than most service managers would. My impression is the dealer didn't screw up. They were informative of telling me the history of the issue with the fuel pumps, the frequency of this issue is declining, and they gave examples of VW's sensitivity to the issue -- including the effort with Bosch's continually improve on the high pressure fuel pumps for the American market. As others have mentioned, I think it appears that I might be the one out of a reasonable size sample.

I also confirmed that Passat's fuel system is simpler than other models and the cost of repairing it is less.

I hope I have no serious problems going forward.

AtlantaRene

LOL! Go to another dealer. They don't know what they are talking about. Trying to link the NEW model Passat to the OLD Jetta and Golf issue as the excuse. THEY screwed up. Probably the lot jockey not paying attention after partying all the night before work.

Besides VW has started adding yellow tags to the 2012's and changed the 2013 filler tubes to prevent gasoline being pumped into the diesel. I suspect they are having issues with DEALERS.

As well there was speculation about the Jetta and Golf failures being related to misfueling.
 

VeeDubTDI

Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 2, 2000
Location
Springfield, VA
TDI
‘18 Tesla Model 3D+, ‘14 Cadillac ELR, ‘13 Fiat 500e
This thread is crossing boundaries now. Let's keep it civil in here so it doesn't turn into just another HPFP thread.

Dealer fixed the problem, we found out how much it costs, this is one data point out of a LOT of Passats sold.
 

tdiatlast

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Location
Fort Worth, Texas
TDI
2009 Sportwagen (boughtback); 2014 Passat TDI SEL (boughtback)
I think it's critical to determine if the vehicle was misfueled.

AtlantaRene: Did the dealer return the car to you with a full tank of "fuel"? Was there MORE fuel on the guage when you picked up the car than the 1/4 tank you left in it?

I know there are many here that would be very relieved to know that the dealer FILLED your tank with gas (on top of the existing 1/4 tank), so the failure might have been caused by a 3:1 ratio of gas to diesel, and in fact, you were able to drive it for 96 miles before the HPFP failed.
 

VeeDubTDI

Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 2, 2000
Location
Springfield, VA
TDI
‘18 Tesla Model 3D+, ‘14 Cadillac ELR, ‘13 Fiat 500e
Or maybe they only added a gallon or two to make up for what the burned during all of the test driving.
 

AtlantaRene

Well-known member
Joined
May 12, 2012
Location
Atlanta, GA
TDI
2012 Passat TDI SE DSG w/Sunroof and Nav
I keep close track of my miles in a spreadsheet. I normally get about between 525 to 548 to reserve (60 miles remaining) in city. On the day the car towed, I had about 500 on the trip meter and dipped to 105 miles of range. 500 miles + 105 miles (range to empty) - 60 (miles of reserve) put me on track for about 545 miles to reserve. This puts me on track for a better than average tank but within the 23-mile margin of error for my driving habits. Have a science background but I could not determine a method to prove a misfueling.

I may have not noticed adding one or two gallons of gas with about 5 gallons of diesel. I thought about the lower ratio of the gas to diesel solution could cause failure but I never know. The recall notice stated that even small quantities of gas could cause a failure and maybe that's what happened but I could never be sure.

At some point, you just have to read the behavior of the people in the service department and hope that your bull detector does not lead you astray. It was a curious circumstance but I don't have cause to suspect the dealer.

AtlantaRene
 

Papachristou

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2003
Location
Memphis, TN
TDI
2012 VW Passat SE DSG
i had an issue with my '03 jetta where it deployed the side airbags with about 60k on it. I called my dealer and took it in for them to "check". They soon came out to tell me to eff off, it was my fault, blah blah blah. I was about to call VWoA and start filing complaints when they called me while i was standing in the parking lot! they apologized for the dealer and said they would be taking care of everything and my rental car would be ready shortly. sure enough, the service manager came back out with a completely different attitude, he was kind and apologetic instead of confrontational like a few minutes before. I thought something was amiss but didnt know what it could be.

a few months later i was googling something and found of VW was being investigated by the NHTSA for that exact issue. airbags would deploy if the car hit a pothole or was jarred while turning. it was a sensor issue from what i remember. at any rate, i was glad it worked out for me as it did for you.
 

WutGas?

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2012
Location
Oklahoma City
TDI
The Last Real Jetta Sedan
How long were the 09 CRs out before the first failure was known? How does it compare to this one?

Just curious really.
 

FormerOwner

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2006
Location
Alabama
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SE 6spd; Former Owner 02 MkIV wagon
You know what? I wouldn't pursue the matter any further. They admitted guilt by replacing your whole system in my eyes. I'd go to another shop for any future service. I certainly wouldn't entertain the idea of returning to that VW shop. Yeah, you can complain and lawyer up but in the end... didn't you already win with the repair?
 

Sinetv

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2012
Location
Atlanta, GA
TDI
2012 JSW 2013 Audi Q7 TDI
I am sorry to say that I had two failures in my 2012 VW Passat since purchasing my car in April and over the last 6000 miles. The AdBlue pump failure it was replaced at a charge of $1121 to warranty. At my request, the local service center operated the car and where they put 34 miles on it to assure that the problem would not reoccur.

When, I got the back and it was not performing properly, I felt as if I was robbed of torque – so much so I literally had to floor the car to get it to accelerate aggressively. I drove the car a whole 96 miles until the fuel pump failure. Though the dealer did not confirm the contaminate was gas, they stated gas in the fuel system is the most likely cause “because the fuel pump came apart”. From the repair invoice, it appears they replaced the majority of the pieces in the fuel system.

Now here the odd part, according to my mileage spreadsheet, I filled up with 16 gallons of diesel in mid-August and the fuel pump failed in September. The car was operated for 501 miles. The only time that the car was out of my supervision was when the car was at the dealer. The car had less than a ¼ tank of fuel at failure. I just received a call today that my car is done, somehow they managed to replace $4580 of parts for $830 of labor.
Total repair costs for an AdBlue pump and fuel pump billed to factory warranty is $6530.

At this point, I am frustrated, I don’t know if the contaminate was from water, gas or something else that would pass through a fuel filter. I don’t know the local fuel station, the dealer screwed and put in some gas, or I have a defective fuel pump.

I’ve opened a complaint on the “VW Cares” line and spoke to the regional customer advocate at VW. They were very tight lipped, as if a lawyer had trained them. I had to struggle with them just to assure that my complaint was recorded properly. They did not want to discuss any of my concerns and I have received absolutely no sympathy. I didn’t even get the phrase, “Sorry to hear that you are having these problems.” They only seemed to be interested in getting the car back to me. Personally, I see this as a huge lack of customer service. I am still waiting for a followup callback from her to supposedly discuss my concerns.

This is my first VW, my first TDI from any brand, I’m addicted to torque, and I absolutely love the way the car handles; however, the recent failures and my service experience has lead me to question if I will be a VW owner for long.

AtlantaRene
2012 Passat TDI SE 6065 miles

Hi I am from Atlanta also, if not secret that dealer you using!?
 

irondogger

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 24, 2012
Location
South Texas
TDI
'12 Sportwagen TDI
Adblue pump failure

I am sorry to say that I had two failures in my 2012 VW Passat since purchasing my car in April and over the last 6000 miles. The AdBlue pump failure it was replaced at a charge of $1121 to warranty........
I am curious as to how you initially determined the Adblue pump failure. Did a indicator light illuminate, message display, or the vehicle start running poorly?

L8r,................dogger
 

AtlantaRene

Well-known member
Joined
May 12, 2012
Location
Atlanta, GA
TDI
2012 Passat TDI SE DSG w/Sunroof and Nav
Hi I am from Atlanta also, if not secret that dealer you using!?
It's great to meet another Atlanta TDI owner.

I realized my screen name and was concerned I'd get this question. I don't have cause to suspect the dealer. My mileage calculations were inconclusive and within the 23-mile margin of error established from past fill ups. The behavior of the dealer in the lead me to believe that they were just trying to fix the car. When I asked carefully constructed questions, they fully answered all of them without evasion.

I must admit, it would be easy for a shop tech to add one gallon of gas by mistake and still could be within the margin of error. If the dealer make this mistake, they attempted to balance the mistake with customer service. I have to respect that and I am going to continue using them. So if it's OK, I'd hope to avoid using their name in a public forum.

AtlantaRene
 
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AtlantaRene

Well-known member
Joined
May 12, 2012
Location
Atlanta, GA
TDI
2012 Passat TDI SE DSG w/Sunroof and Nav
I am curious as to how you initially determined the Adblue pump failure. Did a indicator light illuminate, message display, or the vehicle start running poorly?
The car was off for about six hours. When I started it, the check engine light came on. The car ran fine.

The service advisor stated the diagnostic code was one they had not seen before so it required VW's support. They stated it took several tests to isolate it to the AdBlue Urea Injection pump.

AtlantaRene
 

tdiatlast

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Location
Fort Worth, Texas
TDI
2009 Sportwagen (boughtback); 2014 Passat TDI SEL (boughtback)
...I must admit, it would be easy for a shop tech to add one gallon of gas by mistake...AtlantaRene
Sorry, I have to disagree. A car jockey, maybe, but not a shop tech. They make their living by putting the correct fluid in the correct tanks day in and day out.

I still think everyone, including VWoA, would benefit by knowing how much, if any, gas dilution was in the tank at the time of the HPFP failure. At the very least, we would know that it wasn't a defective part.
 

StoneCrab

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2012
Location
Indiana
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SEL
Interesting. I find it highly unlikely that the HPFP failing immediately after the urea injection pump is purely concidental. This is the first reported case of a HPFP failure AND a urea injection pump failure. Basic statistics would say that the probability of either one of those failures is very small, and to have them both together would indicate some correlation, but what? Here are some questions I have -

1. What were the trouble codes that set off the check engine light?
2. Did the car drive normally while the check engine light was on?
3. Did you notice the sluggishness and low power immediately after getting the car back from the urea pump replacement?
4. Could the HPFP somehow developed a defect or pre-failure that set off the urea injection pump codes? That is, what feedback and monitoring system does the car use for the urea system? The system has severe operational restrictions if urea is bypassed or not working (empty tank, diluted urea or straight water) - as in the car won't run, so if the urea system was not working I would expect something more than a check engine light.
5. Could water in the fuel cause HPFP failure? Does this car have a serviceable water separator outside of the fuel filter?
 
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