AFE cold air intake
- Thread starter Iniguez
- Start date
milehighassassin
Top Post Dawg
That really depends on what motor. If the motor has a poorly designed intake, then that could be very attainable.03PlatinumTDI said:
I think this could help if you are trying to open up the entire intake system. Pair this with better IC piping, a better IC and a PD150 intake. I think the gains would be compounded with each other.
I would prefer the Amsoil Ea filter myself.
milehighassassin
Top Post Dawg
They stock/OEM box is great/perfect for a stock car, but as you start adding more fuel and requestion more air, there is certainly a need to open the intake.Farfromovin said:Sorry Bob, but I gotta quote Nick here after reading your post...
Bob_Fout
Oil Wanker
Milehigh, are you going to try this airbox and pipe?
To retrofit the Amsoil filter is relatively easy. (3" is the smallest flange size they make, the pipe is 2.75"). Just need a silicone reducer and a short piece of 3" OD pipe.
The AEM filter I'm using is also synthetic and filters really good, but lacks the concave top. I find it interesting AEM doesn't test against Amsoil
To retrofit the Amsoil filter is relatively easy. (3" is the smallest flange size they make, the pipe is 2.75"). Just need a silicone reducer and a short piece of 3" OD pipe.
The AEM filter I'm using is also synthetic and filters really good, but lacks the concave top. I find it interesting AEM doesn't test against Amsoil
milehighassassin
Top Post Dawg
Honestly I am not going to try this setup but I have been very into self fabrication recently. I think I might start with an Amsoil Ea filter. Build a box with Aluminum and when I am happy with the design have it powder coated locally.
I have been planning on making my own intercooler piping, and ordering a PD150 intake. I might possibly build my only intake to go from the airbox/filter to the turbo as well, that is long term.
I think the old major argument against the CAI's was that the filter ability was severly lacking. I have always thought the VW box is a good OEM piece, but once you move past OEM power levels there is much to be gained.
I have been planning on making my own intercooler piping, and ordering a PD150 intake. I might possibly build my only intake to go from the airbox/filter to the turbo as well, that is long term.
I think the old major argument against the CAI's was that the filter ability was severly lacking. I have always thought the VW box is a good OEM piece, but once you move past OEM power levels there is much to be gained.
velociT
Top Post Dawg
Because the owners manual doesn't allow it...Bob_Fout said:
shizzler
Veteran Member
It totally can. I'm glad you guys are keeping this thread alive with updates and info. The one thing I don't quite understand though is how you guys are happy to completely ditch the "cold" and perhaps slightly pressurized draw of the factory setup. While it might not be too significant, you are now simply sucking heated (perhaps) underhood air that could run at a significantly lower pressure when driving at speed. It would seem to me that increased flow through the filter wouldn't mean much if it drew from a lower ambient pressure.Bob_Fout said:
For that reason I went this route:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=245261
vwmikel
Vendor , w/Business number
For most this isn't as much of an issue as it is for me, but I just can't really run a stock airbox. There isn't enough room, so I run an akimoto cone filter that integrates a large velocity stack. I don't really think the stock setup even has sufficient frontal area for the inlet to produce any measureable ram air effect so the arguement largely comes down to temperature. Keep in mind that the air under the hood will all be replaced with fresh air before you ever hit second gear so I really don't see that as being a concern. It seems like people here make a lot of excuses to avoid spending money or doing anything that doesn't simply use stock parts off of another car. I figure it's a hobby and hobbies cost money. I buy things because I want them and I'm okay with that....shizzler said:It totally can. I'm glad you guys are keeping this thread alive with updates and info. The one thing I don't quite understand though is how you guys are happy to completely ditch the "cold" and perhaps slightly pressurized draw of the factory setup. While it might not be too significant, you are now simply sucking heated (perhaps) underhood air that could run at a significantly lower pressure when driving at speed. It would seem to me that increased flow through the filter wouldn't mean much if it drew from a lower ambient pressure.
For that reason I went this route:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=245261
nicklockard
Torque Dorque
Phew, at least there's one other sane person in this threadRub87 said:probaly the filter was so restrictive the air was expanding due the vacuum created, this can achieve a drop in temp below ambient
lol
LOL.
Yeah, and these C(W)AI's must also separate oxygen from nitrogen, thus enrichening the intake in O2 to give a more complete burn
You guys would get better results by mounting a dorm fridge in front of the car with the door removed: then you'd have your ram air and your cold air.
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vwmikel
Vendor , w/Business number
I've got a better idea, I'm going to run a duct from my A/C vent up to my intake!nicklockard said:You guys would get better results by mounting a dorm fridge in front of the car with the door removed: then you'd have your ram air and your cold air.
velociT
Top Post Dawg
It's all about dry-ice injection...
It's like the tornado in the sense it obstructs the intake charge (thus adding HP)
And it'll also super-cool what's left of the intake charge.
It's like the tornado in the sense it obstructs the intake charge (thus adding HP)
And it'll also super-cool what's left of the intake charge.
vwmikel
Vendor , w/Business number
I was thinking of adding an interfooler like this:
What do you guys think?
What do you guys think?
vwmikel
Vendor , w/Business number
oooh, overdrive....I might have to overnight parts from Japan....Rub87 said:
shizzler
Veteran Member
hahahaha thats great. That must chill the intake air to like 30 below ambient or sovwmikel said:I was thinking of adding an interfooler like this:
What do you guys think?
Wait, why were we talking about temperatures below ambient? Did someone say the AFE did that?
vwmikel
Vendor , w/Business number
No, we've measured temps below ambient with just a cone filter. My suspicion is that the sensor might've been off a few degrees and was reading ambient....regardless, if it's reading at or around ambient then I don't see the temperature advantage of the stock airbox. I agree that the stock system is fairly well designed, but it was also designed to be an intake muffler more than anything.shizzler said:hahahaha thats great. That must chill the intake air to like 30 below ambient or so
Wait, why were we talking about temperatures below ambient? Did someone say the AFE did that?
If you look at the production class race cars at the Grand-Am or ALMS races you will see they almost all run conical air filters. I am sure these race teams have tested and checked out pros and cons of these air intakes much more then we can and their underhood temps have to be much greater than our small TDI engines put out. Must be something positive to what they are running.
shizzler
Veteran Member
They also race at an average speed of over 100mph though. So depending on filter placement in the engine bay, they could be much cooler than the average TDI bay around town....?Racer007 said:
shizzler
Veteran Member
Hey, just to re-iterate, I think what you guys are doing with this filter is great, since you're right, its not the typical follow the crowd, sheep style modding. Just playing devils advocate. My girlfriend hates that about me.vwmikel said:
And yeah, obviously the sensor was just off. I think the temperature advantage of the stock box (or at least the theory of its plumbing) would be most evident during transient conditions, that could prove harder to measure. (i.e. taking off from a stop on a hot day, or stop and go driving, etc).
Actually I really hate that the stock airbox is so quiet. I like a little intake noise. My mods didn't seem to do much to increase it. Do you get any with the AFE?
milehighassassin
Top Post Dawg
shizzler said:
Around town everything (both the OEM and CAI) is going to be pulling in hot air. There simply is not enough movement to get cold air in. You can have a filter on a tube sitting on the ground and the pavement is going to be giving off heat. Sure in the winter it might be cold, but what else might you be ingesting? The stock box isn't going to be pulling in any cooler air. All of these designs are based off of the car moving. Even moving at 50 MPH would be enough to keep a fresh supply of cool air.
Remember the stock airbox has a spring loaded hatch for higher revs to pull in air, where does that come from? (engine bay).
shizzler
Veteran Member
I gotta disagree. Your comment inspired me to run some simple volumetric calculations. If you can engage the clutch with anything near full load at 2000rpm, you're going to empty a full 3" intake and airbox in under half a second. If you launch at 3000rpm with a stock intake its empty in more like 0.2 seconds. (I generously estimated 8 feet of 3" piping and a 9x9x12 inch airbox), with a volumetric efficiency of 1.8 (assuming a healthy dose of boost). Of course there is probably some lag that would add to these numbers. It's not about vehicle movement to push air into the intake system, the engine sucks it all through.milehighassassin said:
Assuming the intake tract isn't fully heatsoaked at this point, you will be drawing much cooler air in during a launch on the street with an intake sealed to fresh air vs sucking underhood air, in my opinion. Now, this could really be negligible for most folks, but in principle, I think it's a real effect. How fast the engine bay clears (i.e. at what speed) is anyone's guess.
I personally have my engine bay more sealed up (grill blocks for warm-up time reduction and aerodynamic benefit) so my underhood temps would be even nastier.
I looked at the spring loaded hatch for a while during my intake mods. The spring tension is pretty high! I had a hard time believing that the stock snorkle would be restrictive enough to force this thing open to allow a tiny fraction more air to enter... Seems like it could be more for safety in the event of a serious intake clog/jam? Its wierd, the ALH flapper is in the snorkle, but the VR6 setup has it in the airbox, and furthermore, before I cut out all the lower air box ridges, they had the filter segregated 65% from snorkle, and 35% from the smaller side of the box that only has a spring flapper to bring in air. This effectively either lowers the filter area substantially or forces it to draw some air from under the hood. I ditched both and am not running with a spring flapper anywhere in the intake system now.
vwmikel
Vendor , w/Business number
I don't know, why would you waste your money on a Dodge Neon?KROUT said: