05 manual PD in an S-10 Pick up

Schoust

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2013
Location
Litchfield County
TDI
00 Jetta Alh 5spd
Hey Guy's
My kid and I are kicking around attempting to use his now totaled low mile PD manual drive train in an 80's possibly 90's s-10 pick up truck. More than likely it would be a two wheel drive truck slammed in the weeds...
Has anyone attempted this? If so what are the biggest hurdles to overcome?
Thanks
 

Exenos

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2014
Location
Ontario
TDI
02 Golf
There are a few threads on here about s10 builds but I don't know if any were actually finished. I'm working on a ranger but I am using a s10 transmission. What I can say is that if you use a 4.3 trans and make your own adapter the engine cant be mounted vertically, needs to be clocked at 20 degrees to make sure the vw dowel pin doesn't interfere with the starter.
 

d0u8l3m

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2014
Location
Connecticut
TDI
B5.5 Passat
Also interested in any info people have on this swap. I have a 99 ZR2 S10 I was thinking about putting a BHW into. My main concerns with such a swap are the wiring (yeah you can do standalone but ideally Id want as many of the stock controls to work as possible), and the weight of these trucks.

I think a BHW paired with a BV43 and a tune can come in around 190hp/350tq, which is pretty much inline with a stock 4.3 v6 (around 200hp/200tq), but will the MPG and lower end torque make such a swap even worth it? Especially considering that just the adapter alone for the engine to a chevy trans is over a grand. ( I guess you could do some fab work to get the VW trans installed, but again $$/time)

In your case the lighter weight of a 2 wheel drive truck will definitely help, especially a regular cab. But the question (to me at least) still remains, what is the benefit of going with a tdi vs doing a "simple" v8 swap, considering you can basically piece together a plug and play kit for the most part going the v8 route?

Don't get me wrong im a diesel geek as well (my Passat is insanely fun) , but when you can build up a v8 with 3-400hp and get a nice torque band in the low end range for towing if you get the right cam, whats the point of a TDi in such a truck? Especially if you have to pay a lot more to do it?

Curious to see some responses. :)
 

evguy1

Vendor
Joined
Feb 8, 2014
Location
Erington, BC, Canada
TDI
2000 Jeep Cherokee TDI, 2008 Jeep JKU TDI
There are a couple of S-10s on the road. One in Calgary Alberta that I hope to visit over the weekend. I stock the 4.3 V6 adapter that spaces the engine 2" forward of the bellhousing for vacuum pump/firewall clearance and on a PD you can mount it vertical.
 

PickleRick

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Location
Greenville sc
TDI
05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
People with ALH 4x4 4 runners report 30 plus mpg from the lesser power 1.9

Id consider a BHW an upgrade over the fuel guzzling 4.3. My 4.3 is a 91 model so not a true vortec but in a short bed regular cab s10 2wd is lucky to get 17mpgs

A stage 2 tune alone is 170/300 hp/tq

You would need to mod a 750lbs 4bt to make it that peppy and you'd think the 4bt was mana from above with most 4x4 guys.


Your water and oil gauge should be easy to adapt from the 4.3

The tach will require a call to dakota

Your vss runs off the tranny

I usually do swaps in old carbd vehicles with no ecu.
 

Drewmeister

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Joined
Oct 30, 2012
Location
Texas
TDI
2004 Jetta TDI
Weight of the truck will not be an issue... a regular cab 2wd S-10 weighs in at 2900 lbs.; 3200 lbs. for an extended cab 2wd. For comparison, a Mk.4 Jetta comes in at 3100. It's actually the lack of weight in the rear that can be an issue in these trucks -- not hard at all to do burnouts, even with the 4-cyl, and in rain/snow/ice traction can be an issue. The regular cab can be a bit squirrelly if you do lose traction, but the long wheelbase models (ext. cab or long bed) are a lot more stable.

Power comparison: the TBI 4.3 V6 made 160 HP/235 ft.lb.; the Vortec 175-200/240-260. You'd need a strong tune to match that, but even a stock PD would drive OK (certainly better than the Iron Duke or 2.2). Gas mileage in a 4.3 is pretty low, of course -- 15 city/21 highway by the revised standards.

Look up forums/write-ups about S-10 V8 swaps; everything that isn't engine-specific will apply. If the truck did not originally come with the 4.3, you may need to upgrade the transmission and/or rear axle to handle the torque, or to not be doing 3000+ RPM on the highway.
 
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d0u8l3m

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2014
Location
Connecticut
TDI
B5.5 Passat
Well I hope these reply's have convinced the OP of doing this swap, because they are certainty swaying me lol

So power wise, the PD seems to match/outperform the 4.3 which is awesome, but being a diesel how do you calculate the stall speed of the torque converter you need/how to set the shift points in say a 4l60e to not be stuck at a high RPM all the time? And how does the differential gear ratios come into play when figuring all that out? For example my ZR2 has 3.73 gearing but they had like 3 or 4 options I believe.

What about all the fuel lines/tank? It would probably be a good idea to replace all the fuel lines if the truck is old, but do you also need a new tank, or can you clean out the gas one.

Also on a VW you also have an electronic gas pedal right? How do you convert the truck to use that? Is it just mount the pedal and you can map that signal to whatever else needs it? (im thinking the trans might need it but i honestly dont know)

Hopefully there will be some S10 TDI build threads on here in the future :D
 

PickleRick

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Location
Greenville sc
TDI
05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
Its been a while but i think the 700r4 and 4l60e use the same converter. The 700r4 came behind the 6.2 diesel in a few vehicles, im not sure if that carried over to the 4l60e. If not a proper stall converter can be found as a custom build. Since the BHW perfoms more like a gasser motor with its shorter stroke i don't think a gasser stall converter will hurt it much. Id toss it in and see how i liked it on the stock converter.

The just check your gearing using a gear calculator, try to aim your top expected cruising rpms to around 2400. You lose peak torque after that but in my passat it still pulls well a little over 3000.


You can fashion your fly by wire pedal to also control your tv cable. Getting proper adjustment is key to not eating your tranny
 

d0u8l3m

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2014
Location
Connecticut
TDI
B5.5 Passat
Its been a while but i think the 700r4 and 4l60e use the same converter. The 700r4 came behind the 6.2 diesel in a few vehicles, im not sure if that carried over to the 4l60e. If not a proper stall converter can be found as a custom build. Since the BHW perfoms more like a gasser motor with its shorter stroke i don't think a gasser stall converter will hurt it much. Id toss it in and see how i liked it on the stock converter.

The just check your gearing using a gear calculator, try to aim your top expected cruising rpms to around 2400. You lose peak torque after that but in my passat it still pulls well a little over 3000.


You can fashion your fly by wire pedal to also control your tv cable. Getting proper adjustment is key to not eating your tranny

Well I cant find the gear ratios of the DUK trans in my Passat currently but these are the ratios for an FHN which is almost identical (via a vwztips post):

FHN
1st 3.78
2nd 2.18
3rd 1.36
4th 0.90
5th 0.69
FD 3.44
Running approx 65 @ 2000 rpm

I found a 6 Pinion planetary gear set from Sonnax that has the following ratios ( SC-77284-K)

1st 2.84
2nd 1.56
3rd 1.00
OD: 0.70

Seems that these are pretty damn close and should keep the engine in a good rpm range no?

According to a gearstar post i found with 3.73 gears this gives you a final drive ratio of 10:1??? (I have little understanding of mechanical systems other than one side spins so many times as the other so bear with me lol)
 

PickleRick

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Location
Greenville sc
TDI
05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
Many of the gear ratio calculators (especially 4x4 ones) will already have the 4l60e ratios listed. You just have to add in your axle gearing and tire size to get rpm at expected speed .

Once thats sorted your stand alone transmission controller will get your shift points where it should make the set up feel like it should have come factory.
 

d0u8l3m

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2014
Location
Connecticut
TDI
B5.5 Passat
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjABegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw1j5RnGL1MmfkcvmFAKMAya
The 4l60e is a popular transmission for the old muscle car and hot rod guys!
All the tranny gear ratios for the 700r4 and 4l60e are the same. Just put in your tire size and axle ratio.

Gonna take a look at these later, I have a 4l60e that needs to be rebuilt, so I have the option of changing the planetary gearset for a closer ratio one If I wanted. Stock is only 4 pinions/weak anyways so I would probably replace it for something stronger.

I also got a ton of wiring diagrams from someone on facebook for the BHW so im gonna go through that and all the ones I have for my truck to see how things work.

That "TDI swapped trucks" facebook group was a great recommendation
 
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