B4/1Z to AFN conversion complete!

hgeittmann

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May 19, 2003
Location
Longmont, Colorado
TDI
05 Passat Wagon
Ok, so I put a pd130 turbo on my 1Z this week. Yeah, it's not compound turbos or even a vnt20, but hey, the car is running again and I'm happy.:cool:

Before the swap I dyno'd 130hp/250tq w/ RC3, PP520s, and one of BleachedBora's gt15/17 turbos...


An AFN manifold and PD130 turbo (gt1749va) will bolt on without the rear motor mount interference that the vb turbo has (which Jeff recently posted a work-around for his vb on an A3 here). I say "bolt on" loosely as there is some fab required to make this work. Down pipe... find the flange from an A4 downpipe and take it to any muffler shop when you're all done.

Oil lines (find a hydraulic hose shop- just google "aeroquip" and find a distributor near you). For the supply line I had my stock line modified at the hose shop:


The return line may look a little scarrier... I modified my stock line, first thinking I could extend the flex section using hosebarbs and some tubing:


which didn't work at all, so I cut the stock lines where circled- there's a hump that makes a nice hose barb- and used about 11" of tube from NAPA. I forget the SAE rating, but it was decent stuff. It's holding up so far, and I have ordered a CNC oil return flange ($15 from some turbo website) with NPT fitting so I can make a nicer one someday. The stock return line is sort of a joke (what I made can't be worse)- big 90 bend that runs nearly horizontal into the block ??? Make the shortest run possible with gentle bends and try to maintain a slope downward into the banjo fitting... at least that's what Corky says.


Also needed is a an adapter for turbo-to-upper IC pipe (made it myself, but probably should've just bought Kerma's widget), adapter for PD130 intake manifold (made it myself, the PD130 IM is optional), and an A4 N75 and electrical connector. Here are my adapters:


There's one silicone 2.25-2" adapter, and one piece of 2" x 8" long to connect upper IC tubes. I don't have the stock tubes anymore, but the long hose would still need be needed for the stock tubes. With all of those pieces, everything fits back together!!!


The red dots show the vacuum line to the N75. Not pictured is an A4 vacuum reservoir.

With the GN ecu, the brake and clutch switches for cruise control need to be rewired to switch to +12vdc instead of ground. I tapped into switched 12v at the headlight switch (pin 4, gray/blue):


and then used butt splices to run the 12v to the brake and clutch connectors

The clutch switch is the black one that is easy to see, the brake switch is the blue connector in the upper right. 12v goes to pin 1 on the cruise connector, and pin 2 on the brake connector. Jeff/RC sent me the details on this, and I'm really grateful for his help.

I decided to buy Aligator's DIY tuning kit. I wanted to be able to tune everything to suit my smoke tolerance, which is low. With just the first map from Aligator I can say the power has increased significantly over the wastegate/GQ, and smoke is non existent. I will return to the dyno December 2nd and post the results.

Another fun thing about this project was collecting parts from tdiclubbers... N75 connector from Amonquag, N75 from tdiparts.com, downpipe flange from KCTDI, oil line (that got modified) from Stig, turbo from vw4motion, intake & exhaust manifolds from Aligator. ECU was converted from GQ to GN by Jeff, A4 injector bodies from NickLockard, IC pipes from tbailey4... thanks!


OK... here's the after dyno:


134hp (+4hp) and 254ftlbs (+4tq). Jeez... I was really hoping for bigger gains, but it is what it is. The new dyno shows that peak torque comes on 100rpm earlier (2237rpm vs 2328rpm) and peak power is 450rpm higher (3813rpm vs 3385rpm) and doesn't fall off at higher rpm like the WG dyno did. So, perhaps a little more area under the power curve. Smoke is gone, so no more being careful with the right foot, which definitely makes it more fun to drive, at least for me.
 
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Satiro

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2006
Location
Spain
TDI
IBIZA 1.9TDI 110hp AFN 1998
Hi, i will go to change my Vnt15 for a GT1749VA... what plug differences exist beetween those turbos? the oil return connection isn't same,isn't? Thanks and sorry by my english...best regards from Spain! :)
 

hgeittmann

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Joined
May 19, 2003
Location
Longmont, Colorado
TDI
05 Passat Wagon
Changing from from a vnt15 to the -va turbo might be plug and play depending on the flavor of 1749va you have/find, et.c. I used a -va without a manifold. If you have a vnt15 w/ manifold I bet a vnt17 w/manifold will plug right in. Now to answer your question, the the compression fitting at the turbo for the oil supply will be the same, as will the flange on the outlet of the turbo for the oil return. The lengths of the line may need to change, and that's the problem a hydraulic hose fabricator can solve for you.
 

jsrmonster

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Hans,

Good job, don't forget the external ccv breather catchcan. You may even consider a boost valve if you decide on big fueling too. Then you'll also need an intank PD lift pump. I also recommend bypassing the thermastatic fuel tee so you don't puke the IP case relief valve. We'll talk more later about your tuning. I'd like to see a vaglog of 1, 4, and 11, for a wot 3rd gear pull.

Jeff
 

hgeittmann

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May 19, 2003
Location
Longmont, Colorado
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05 Passat Wagon
thanks. I hope this will encourage a few more conversions (I'm just a software engineer and I did this in my driveway, so you can do it too!!!). I wasn't going to bump this til I had my "after" dyno, but oh well.

Jeff, you missed "replace the coat-hanger wire used to secure the IAT sensor" after I lost the oem clip ring :p ccv is on order and I need to plug the weep hole in my wg mbc, but then that'll be covered too. Lift pump? Man, I thought I was done obsessing about power, but I'm already thinking about an IC upgrade.
 
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bikeprof

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Sep 2, 2005
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Pagosa Springs, Colorado(YEAH!)
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1996 Passat B4 Variant white, 1996 Town & Country 3.8 LXI
Hans: WOW! That is how my Variant can look like under the hood also?:D
I am also interested in the Dyno results, costs, and hours of labor.:confused:

Next time I go back to BDR. I would like to see it/THAT!

Merry X-mas!

John
 

hgeittmann

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May 19, 2003
Location
Longmont, Colorado
TDI
05 Passat Wagon
Update: Added the dyno results to the original post. Kind of disappointing that the peak numbers weren't bigger, but I guess that just means I'm not done modding :D
 

mojogoes

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May 1, 2003
Location
england
TDI
mk3 tdi golf
Good job......and No worries your only using the pp520's wait untill you add some more fuel (pp764's) head studs etc ....what boost are you seeing.
 
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hgeittmann

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Joined
May 19, 2003
Location
Longmont, Colorado
TDI
05 Passat Wagon
22psi sustained. headstuds went in as part of all this. Which injection pump are you (mojo) using in your 1Z? I've been reading a little about the ALH ip conversion and thinking that will be the next step. Aligator said there wasn't much more fuel that could be added in software.
 

mojogoes

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england
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mk3 tdi golf
Its the 11mm but i would like to use the 12mm to see what that gives in terms of power,smoke,and driveability.....if it does the same as what adding the 11mm did from a 10mm and it still rev's as good/high.......which is what others report then i'll hopefully be getting one fitted before the next re-map.

I would add the 11mm with your setup , you will get more power with probably less smoke than you did with the power you had before with the 10mm.
 

jollyGreenGiant

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Feb 3, 2003
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MA
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03 Golf TDI GLS ( my 5th TDI ), 03 Eurovan GLS - VR6 :(
Bump for a good 1Z update thread. Doing a little research for my own 1Z that might want to experience some VNT action...

hgeittmann, would you have gone to 80 pin architecture if you were to do it over again or are you content with staying on 68 pin?

I've got a spare VNT-15 and an 02 80pin ECU just sitting here and I'd love to get more power, less smoke and maybe better mileage... About time I find a good hydraulic line guy too. I've got a couple good ALH 10mm pumps too, if I could get all my ducks lined up, I could knock this out in a night or two... slightly more if I go with the 80 pin although I'm still trying to figure all the logistics out there.
 
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hgeittmann

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Longmont, Colorado
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05 Passat Wagon
honestly, I didn't know it was an option. Jeff turned me on to the AFN conversion idea, but I don't remember him mentioning 80 pin ecus at the time. What added functionality does the 80 pin ecu give? I'm still planning on upgrading to an ALH pump, just waiting for weather and family to cooperate. Also tempted to go to try one of Kerma's 18 series turbos, but having trouble justifying $1k on a car worth about $5-6k.

Good luck with your project- looking forward to seeing the results!
 

jollyGreenGiant

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TDI
03 Golf TDI GLS ( my 5th TDI ), 03 Eurovan GLS - VR6 :(
Well, the 80 pin is basically just an ALH setup, so one would have to swap the wiring harness and map out all the pins from the 68 to 80 pin and probably make a bunch of connector swaps here and there, basically a very custom harness and utilization of the the ALH ECU, N75 as well as a few other things as far as I know of course, this is why I'm asking questions, I'm just trying to conceptualize the work better.

The 80 pin ECU is a smarter, faster ECU and has far more potential for tuning as compared to the AFN/GQ and other 68 pins ECU's.

Yup, I too would probably look into a hybrid VNT at some point but would get it all working mechanically with the stock VNT15.

I haven't committed to this project yet, just planning the hypothetical upgrade and weighing the options, I love my B4V and would love to have all the best engine attributes of the newer TDI's in this old gal. I'm also considering the K03/K04 route too FWIW. I've got RC3 and PP520 now and it's pretty darn good but of course I've got a little shudder and haze above 3K with the foot down.
 

UltraAleks

Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Location
Macedonia
TDI
AUDI 80 TDI 1Z
HI hgeittmann .
I admire your work on your car.Tell me By changing you standart turbo with bigger turbo how much hp you have gained ? and What about fuel consumption ? I have 1994 Audi 80 TDI 1z , can I change my turbo too ?

cheers
 

Rub87

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Dec 10, 2006
Location
Belgium
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Ibiza '99 90HP
jollyGreenGiant said:
Well, the 80 pin is basically just an ALH setup, so one would have to swap the wiring harness and map out all the pins from the 68 to 80 pin and probably make a bunch of connector swaps here and there, basically a very custom harness and utilization of the the ALH ECU, N75 as well as a few other things as far as I know of course, this is why I'm asking questions, I'm just trying to conceptualize the work better.

The 80 pin ECU is a smarter, faster ECU and has far more potential for tuning as compared to the AFN/GQ and other 68 pins ECU's.

Yup, I too would probably look into a hybrid VNT at some point but would get it all working mechanically with the stock VNT15.

I haven't committed to this project yet, just planning the hypothetical upgrade and weighing the options, I love my B4V and would love to have all the best engine attributes of the newer TDI's in this old gal. I'm also considering the K03/K04 route too FWIW. I've got RC3 and PP520 now and it's pretty darn good but of course I've got a little shudder and haze above 3K with the foot down.
What are the benefits of an alh (edc15?) ecu over a MSA15.7 of an AFN? Don't see why it would have more tuning potential..?
 

jollyGreenGiant

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03 Golf TDI GLS ( my 5th TDI ), 03 Eurovan GLS - VR6 :(
I always thought the EDC15 had more maps and greater processing speed vs. the earlier 68 pin stuff ( AFN is a 68 pin ECU right? )

I'm certainly out of my realm of expertise here, so please don't look to me for good information... I'm trying to collect as much as I can so I can make a decision to go either AFN or K03/K04 with my own car. When I get closer to making a decision I'll attempt to get as much info as I can from the real deal folks who know this stuff unless of course they catch this thread and offer up something in the interim...
 

Rub87

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Ibiza '99 90HP
Don't know by hard if the AFN is 68 pin.. it's MSA15, 16bit, with internal 250kPa map sensor.. It has the same maps +- as the edc15 of the later ALH's..

Early ALH's are also msa15..

I think you're confuson the AFN ecu with the MSA12 ecus of the early 1Z engines, these where only 8 bit and had a 200kPa interal map sensor..
 

jollyGreenGiant

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MA
TDI
03 Golf TDI GLS ( my 5th TDI ), 03 Eurovan GLS - VR6 :(
From what I understand a 1Z GQ suffix ECU can be converted for AFN use ( You probably don't have these GQ ECU's over there so it's probably a useless point I'm making. The GQ ECU is not 8 bit ( 32768 adaption values vs. 256 ) but it's still not as capable as a EDC15.
 

Rub87

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Ibiza '99 90HP
here AFN ecu's are EK.. I have no problem using these ecu's for my needs..
 

G60ING

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MD
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No TDIs Currently, I have an R36 Corrado. I've had an ALH Corrado swap, AHU Corrado swap and 2003 TDI Jetta
hgeittmann said:
Update: Added the dyno results to the original post. Kind of disappointing that the peak numbers weren't bigger, but I guess that just means I'm not done modding :D
Couple questions:

How was the fuel economy of the VNT setup? How did the car feel when you let off the go-pedal? After having driven both a mk4 and mk3 tdi I'd say the mk4 feels much smoother/ready/willing to rev once you let off the throttle.
 

hgeittmann

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Longmont, Colorado
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05 Passat Wagon
Fuel economy stayed pretty much the same going from a gt15/17 hybrid wastegate to the vnt. There was a slight improvement going from stock gt15 to the gt15/17, about 1-2mpg. I suspect going to a bigger turbo than the 1749va might show further improvement.

Letting off the go-pedal... hard to say if there's much difference between the tuned wg (at higher rpm, say above 2500) and tuned vnt versions. Been a while and it's hard to remember, vnt obviously does a bit better at lower rpms. I can comment on stock vs. tuned maps though. Stock tune, letting off the throttle boost drops to zero. W/ tune, boost drops slowly down to a few psi. This tells me the tuned version is holding the vanes more closed, but I haven't looked at no load N75 duty cycles to be sure. And as you might expect, boost increases faster when getting back on it.
 

Rub87

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Belgium
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Ibiza '99 90HP
yes, combination of N75 control and smoke limiter map makes the lag after shift much smaller..
 

e*clipse

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May 9, 2007
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Chico, CA
TDI
Toyota TDI swap
Nice thread! Great info! :cool:

I'm doing a similar upgrade along with my engine swap. I was wondering if you changed the MAF or intercooler?
 

hgeittmann

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Location
Longmont, Colorado
TDI
05 Passat Wagon
No, I left both of those alone. It could benefit from a bigger IC, plus a few other things, but I don't really drive the car much anymore, so it'll probably stay as is. Good luck with your project, let us know how it turns out!
 

G60ING

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MD
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No TDIs Currently, I have an R36 Corrado. I've had an ALH Corrado swap, AHU Corrado swap and 2003 TDI Jetta
I'm following in your footsteps.

I have the 1749va
AFN Manifold
130 PD intake manifold and adapter *Installed*
PP764 *Installed*
mk4 N75 Valve
2" IC pipes *Installed*

Things I still need to get:
downpipe kit
oil lines modified for length (no chance of the stock lines reaching?)
Kerma Turbo Compressor Outlet adapter

It looks like the KKK/GT15 compressor's inlet hose will still bolt up to the 1749va once the compressor is clocked.


What is up with the AFN programming and no cruise control? I need my cruise control.
 

kooyajerms

grocery getter
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May 5, 2004
Location
Pomona, Southern California
TDI
97 B4V (mine), 11 x5 35d (hers) 04 V10 (that one you want), 2014 Q7 (mom's) 74 Shasta 1400
My Seat Toledo tune still allows for cruise control... It was an AFN Frank.
Hrm.

I wonder how Hans' is doing, maybe I'll visit him on the way back from Ohio.
 
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