ALH swap into a 1st Gen Honda Insight

Hello Forum,

I've decided to embark on a challenging project by swapping in an ALH engine/transmission from a 1998 Beetle into a Honda Insight (to be purchased).

NOTE: This project will be very slow. I am incredibly impressed at how fast some of you have tackled the TDI conversion. I will be taking my time and don't expect this to be finished any sooner than 3rd quarter of 2013. That being said, I'm very meticulous and anal about details. Some of my updates may be that I cleaned something for a few hours before we even started work on it. That being said, I plan to document the project well.

All of it will be on my blog here:

www.hondatdi.com

I'll post updates and will likely have a lot of questions for the forum here. I'll mostly be lurking (like usual) but will pop in now and again when something major happens.

Wish me luck! ... and I'll just say thanks now to the people that will inevitably answer questions that will arise as the project moves forward.

Wow not a lot of room under that hood. I have replaced engines and Trans in those things. Best of luck to you! I think an imported lupo 3 cyl. Or a smart car 3 cyl might be better?

Yes I know... this may be one of the first Insights to be rocking a hood scoop

I am fully prepared to have to modify the bay itself. We are trying to avoid that all costs since cutting into a uni-body car generally isn't recommended. I have a few tricks up my sleeve including a LiDAR scanner to get an accurate CAD model of the engine bay before we attempt to stuff the ALH in there.

Someone has already swapped a tdi, but it was a 3 cylinder version: http://www.wired.com/autopia/2009/09/honda-insight-vw-tdi-insight-1g-with-video/

I've seen that... very cool. He had a thread here on TDIclub as well as Insight Central but fell off the face of the Earth after posting a video of it idling. I don't know if they every truly finished the project since Red Light Racing seems to be gone also?

Here's how mine will be different:

1. It will use the ALH engine which is more commonly found in the United States
2. It will have considerably more power compared to a stock Insight
3. It will be fully documented on the Internet

Are you keeping it hybrid? The one in the video looks as if it maintains hybrid status which would be WAY awesome..

First paragraph just made the entire blog! LOL

Antsrcool said:

Are you keeping it hybrid? The one in the video looks as if it maintains hybrid status which would be WAY awesome..

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No, we'll be removing all hybrid equipment and be running on TDI power only.

Hollis16 said:

First paragraph just made the entire blog! LOL

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Thanks... I toned it down a bit to keep it PG-13 rated. Maybe I'll add some more details if people are getting a kick out of the sanitized version

First geeky post will be up some time this weekend

What part of AZ are you in? Enjoy pulling that harness out of the NB. Puzzled, what's exciting about a Honda Insight.

Evey good swap needs a challenge or a passion to drive a person/s to dedicate the time and funds to complete a complicated swap like this, whats the challenge or passion?

FredS said:

What part of AZ are you in? Enjoy pulling that harness out of the NB. Puzzled, what's exciting about a Honda Insight.

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I'm in Tucson. The Insight is an engineering marvel, especially for it's time. It's super lightweight chassis and aerodynamic body are well suited for a TDI in my opinion. It's nearly 1000 lbs lighter than a new Beetle and has a 52% reduction in the drag coefficient. Those numbers should make it extremely fuel efficient and have the passing power of much sportier car.

G60ING said:

Evey good swap needs a challenge or a passion to drive a person/s to dedicate the time and funds to complete a complicated swap like this, whats the challenge or passion?

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I've never seen it done before. It's probably due to the physical size constraints. It'll be a challenge to shoe horn the much larger TDI engine into the Insight's tiny bay.

Did some performance testing on the Beetle today before we pull the engine out:

http://www.hondatdi.com/blog/beetle-performance-testing/

Garages, lasers, CAD models, and TDIs oh my!

http://www.hondatdi.com/blog/planning-a-home-for-the-honda-tdi/

... Blog is starting to get geeky now.

Quality geeking there!

You've gone and broken my system here. I read these tdi threads when my eyes start to glaze over from systems engineering overload, and there you go on validation and verifcation. In the TDIClub Book of Swap Records you could go for the "First TDI swap with INCOSE approved system engineering processes"

But seriously, I'm interested in how you plan to get the speed & tach data into the honda dash.

Maybe he can fit in the 2000 Beetle TDi instrument cluster (which should fit physically).

By the way, that would be the say to go if he uses a TDi ECU for the ALH.

mcneil said:

Quality geeking there!

You've gone and broken my system here. I read these tdi threads when my eyes start to glaze over from systems engineering overload, and there you go on validation and verifcation. In the TDIClub Book of Swap Records you could go for the "First TDI swap with INCOSE approved system engineering processes"

But seriously, I'm interested in how you plan to get the speed & tach data into the honda dash.

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gtmotor said:

Garages, lasers, CAD models, and TDIs oh my!

http://www.hondatdi.com/blog/planning-a-home-for-the-honda-tdi/

... Blog is starting to get geeky now.

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Never-done-before TDI conversion.....building a new house with CAD model.....one month old marriage. You have a lot of energy.

Oh and from one geek to another, it's emanating not emulating.

mcneil said:

Quality geeking there!

You've gone and broken my system here. I read these tdi threads when my eyes start to glaze over from systems engineering overload, and there you go on validation and verifcation. In the TDIClub Book of Swap Records you could go for the "First TDI swap with INCOSE approved system engineering processes"

But seriously, I'm interested in how you plan to get the speed & tach data into the honda dash.

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Heh heh. Sorry I just spent 3 years of my life at the Applied Physics Lab finishing my graduate degree. I can't seem to turn off the SE beating they gave me. I've done my best to keep the posts as limited as possible while still touching on the geeky subjects...

The speed and RPM data will be a fun challenge. We will likely have to build a converter box that takes the VW VSS and translates it into something the Honda dash can recognize. It's probably just a 0-5V pulsed signal that is dependent on some sort of optical detector (how is that for vague lol).

The tachometer will likely need a new RPM pickup to be machined. The Insight setup with the 3-cylinder engine won't read properly when the 4-cylinder ALH is transplanted in.

TDI2000Zim said:

Maybe he can fit in the 2000 Beetle TDi instrument cluster (which should fit physically).

By the way, that would be the say to go if he uses a TDi ECU for the ALH.

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The plan is to use the ALH ECU with the Honda Insight dash

Wasn't the Honda Insight Hybrid AUTOMATIC?

If so, you may have to install the full 2000 Beetle TDi with Automatic Transmission drivetrain.

That is a lot to fit in that small Insight hood.

gtmotor said:

The speed and RPM data will be a fun challenge. We will likely have to build a converter box that takes the VW VSS and translates it into something the Honda dash can recognize. It's probably just a 0-5V pulsed signal that is dependent on some sort of optical detector (how is that for vague lol).

The tachometer will likely need a new RPM pickup to be machined. The Insight setup with the 3-cylinder engine won't read properly when the 4-cylinder ALH is transplanted in.

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I think the VSS is actually either hall effect or some kind of magnetic pickup. I put some on a scope and spun them up, got this:

So, I'm debating using a Civic hatchback (EG) instead of an Insight for this project. I can't find a reasonably priced Insight around here (people want insane money for these right now).

Pros for the Civic:

- Easier swap
- Can carry 4-5 people if needed
- Has more room to carry junk
- Parts more readily available

Cons for the Civic:

- Heavier
- Less aerodynamic
- Not as interesting

Should I keep holding out for an Insight or just buy one of the dozens of Civic hatchbacks on Craigslist?

gtmotor said:

Pros for the Civic:
- Can carry 4-5 people if needed
- Has more room to carry junk
- Parts more readily available
Should I keep holding out for an Insight or just buy one of the dozens of Civic hatchbacks on Craigslist?

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A Civic's pretty similar to a Mark 4 VW Golf, so maybe you should just pick up a Golf for your ALH swap. Oh, wait.....

The only real advantage that I can see to a Civic might be if it's an HF. I think some of those had aluminum panels.

If you're not using the Insight, I see no point in the swap at all. As was stated the Civic is mostly the same as a Golf, and you can already get one of them in TDI. The swaps I see on here that are cool and worth the effort are the ones that should have been done by the factory but weren't. Like the light weight Saturn, or the Toyota trucks, my 62 Chevy II that I want to do.

The ALH could fit with alot of adaptation with the motor mounts, yet goodies like A/C might have too be sacrificed to be servicable. As for your Hybrid drive your giving up on, that could interest me for my project, if it can be mated to my AHU. Hondas system never shuts off the engine to run only electric, it only assists your engine, like a boost of electric power in the flywheel motor/starter/generator unit. That's why they call it IMA (intelligent motor assist). Yet will the low end torque of a TDI make it never run? As for a TDI cluster, that'll be a nightmare on the honda.

Finally found an Insight

www.hondatdi.com

It's been my daily driver for about 5 days now. I'm averaging 63.4 mpg without hypermiling or driving any slower/different.

I hope the TDI swap will yield similar or better fuel economy!

Have you put any more thought into how you plan to do your gauges?

I found sparkfun makes a CAN-bus shield for the Arduino, which would give you analog & digital inputs from the powertrain, and CAN out to drive the Insight cluster.

No CAN for me though. I have the back of the jeep cluster pulled apart and I'm experimenting with driving the air-core gauges using this

The gauges are still up in the air... I've been thinking a lot more about the torque output of the TDI engine mated up to the Honda hubs. Been working on a trade study on ways to protect that part of the drive line... guido disc, clutch delay valve, replace hubs...?

Anyway, have you ever wondered how slow an Insight is? My TDI beat it in every performance measure, especially highway passing.

www.hondatdi.com

Got the Insight fully taken apart... the Beetle is next!

Subbed. Keep up the good work

Sent from my Bosch ECU via VAG COM

Methinks you won't need those orange cables anymore