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TDI Power Enhancements Discussions about increasing the power of your TDI engine. i.e. chips, injectors, powerboxes, clutches, etc. Handling, suspensions, wheels, type discussion should be put into the "Upgrades (non TDI Engine related)" forum. Non TDI vehicle related postings will be moved or removed. Please note the Performance Disclaimer.

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Old October 11th, 2018, 15:19   #1
rohls
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Smile 11mm injection pump with .184 injectors?

Hi,


I apologize if this is already somewhere...I couldn't find it.


I have a 2001 Golf ALH 5-speed. Stock injectors (I think; just bought the car).


How do I easily identify what injectors / nozzles I have?


I'm looking to replace the injection pump very soon. I need to be able to pass CA smog (lame).


What's my best bet as far as pump / injectors / pass smog / power / torque upgrades are concerned?


I'm looking at getting the 11mm (auto) pump now and running the .184 (stock) injectors. Then bumping up to the .205 injectors in a bit.


The PO said he put a stronger clutch (stage 3?) in it recently...no real way to confirm.


Sound like a plan...?



Thanks for the help!

Nick
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Old October 11th, 2018, 15:36   #2
Yourbuddysatin
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This is interesting....
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Old October 11th, 2018, 18:28   #3
ToxicDoc
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I would think a tune flasher that you could program in an emissions tune then retune to a performance tune would be ideal for you. That would be my approach. Any one of the larger tuner services should be able to hook you up.
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Old October 11th, 2018, 21:42   #4
rohls
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Cool

Ah, cool idea. Can you point me to the right persons please...? Iím admittedly a little bit of a nOOb regarding TDIs still...

Many thanks!



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Originally Posted by ToxicDoc View Post
I would think a tune flasher that you could program in an emissions tune then retune to a performance tune would be ideal for you. That would be my approach. Any one of the larger tuner services should be able to hook you up.
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Old October 11th, 2018, 21:46   #5
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Anyone that sells a “loader” for their tunes. Kerma and Malone are the bigger 2 but there are other reputable tuners too that can keep their tunes Cali inspection legal.
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Old October 12th, 2018, 10:43   #6
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Nick, CA emissions testing for a Mk IV era TDI is: no CEL or codes, no visible
EGR/Cat delete and able to 'rev' the engine without more that a modest visible haze.
You should be OK as long as you aren't 'rolling coal'.

As for mods, you can get a lot more power with just nozzles and a tune.
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Last edited by flee; October 12th, 2018 at 10:45.
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Old October 12th, 2018, 11:19   #7
rohls
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Great news! Thanks


Just out of curiosity, where'd you find that info...?



Quote:
Originally Posted by flee View Post
Nick, CA emissions testing for a Mk IV era TDI is: no CEL or codes, no visible
EGR/Cat delete and able to 'rev' the engine without more that a modest visible haze.
You should be OK as long as you aren't 'rolling coal'.

As for mods, you can get a lot more power with just nozzles and a tune.
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Old October 12th, 2018, 11:22   #8
flee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rohls View Post
Great news! Thanks
Just out of curiosity, where'd you find that info...?
This is based on my experience with my own Mk IV and on what I've read here.
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Old October 12th, 2018, 11:23   #9
rohls
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Great; thanks again!



Quote:
Originally Posted by flee View Post
This is based on my experience with my own Mk IV and on what I've read here.
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Old October 12th, 2018, 11:48   #10
IndigoBlueWagon
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So you don't know what nozzles are in the car, don't know what clutch is in the car, can't pass SMOG, but have decided that replacing one of the most expensive components in the car is the way to pass. Seems you could be headed down any number of blind alleys.

Have you attempted to pass SMOG? If so, what did they say? If not, what makes you think you won't pass with the car as is? If it's in good stock condition then it should pass.

If the seller upgraded the clutch (allegedly) then it's possible he also upgraded the nozzles. Only way to be sure is to pull one and look at it. Even then you might not be able to tell, you may have to disassemble the injector.

And if you have larger nozzles, and upgrade the pump, the car will have had two fueling upgrades which may cause it to fail SMOG. There are other issues, too, like the downpipe and CAT. CA insists on OE.

You don't say where you are in CA but one of the best gurus out there is in the Bay Area. Unfortunately there are few, if any, good TDI mechanics in LA. I'd suggest you get the car to someone who can help you determine what you're starting with before replacing hardware.
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Old October 12th, 2018, 13:44   #11
rohls
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Smile

Like I said it's a new car to me and a known medium-budget project.


Doesn't currently run.


Avoiding the long gory details...PO had big issues with dirty bio. Changed everything in the fuel circuit...minus, from what I can tell, the injectors.



It is currently registered and was smogged a max of two years. Since I know as transferring the title in my name, CA requires I get the thing smogged. What about PNO? Doesn't work that way. Guess how I figured that out? I went to the DMV. I have an incomplete title transfer UNTIL I get it smogged.



I investigated the 'new fuel circuit'. Seems to check out; clean fresh tank, lines, filter...and he has receipts for a NEW OE IP ~20k miles ago.


I was very hesitant to crack open the IP. I did anyway. VERY RUSTY and full of debris. I pondered tearing it apart and cleaning it out...since I did not find adequate resources (diagrams, instructions, expert opinions) to leave me to complete this procedure with great confidence, I opted to get a rebuilt IP from one of the fine gentlemen on this forum. I should see it next week with some luck.


The new pump I'm receiving is the 11mm IP.


Regarding injectors...well, they are dirty and/or stuck in the head, I've only been able to remove 2 of 4 (tool on the way). Plan is to remove, open, clean and replace them. From what I gather the car was running with them a few months ago...and I don't want to spend $250 on injectors at this moment...so yup. That's that.



How does one decipher what nozzles one has? I would imagine there is a PN / code on the nozzle itself...? Like I said, I need to clean / disassemble and figure that out still...


My question I suppose, was really if I have this 11mm pump on the way and run the 0.184 micron (stock 5-speed) injectors in CA, does anyone see an issue when I need to go smog it....?


I'm in the Bay Area, but would like to keep the hands on stuff to myself...very open to advise, but got this car knowing and wanting a fun project.



Thanks for the feedback! I appreciate it.




Quote:
Originally Posted by IndigoBlueWagon View Post
So you don't know what nozzles are in the car, don't know what clutch is in the car, can't pass SMOG, but have decided that replacing one of the most expensive components in the car is the way to pass. Seems you could be headed down any number of blind alleys.

Have you attempted to pass SMOG? If so, what did they say? If not, what makes you think you won't pass with the car as is? If it's in good stock condition then it should pass.

If the seller upgraded the clutch (allegedly) then it's possible he also upgraded the nozzles. Only way to be sure is to pull one and look at it. Even then you might not be able to tell, you may have to disassemble the injector.

And if you have larger nozzles, and upgrade the pump, the car will have had two fueling upgrades which may cause it to fail SMOG. There are other issues, too, like the downpipe and CAT. CA insists on OE.

You don't say where you are in CA but one of the best gurus out there is in the Bay Area. Unfortunately there are few, if any, good TDI mechanics in LA. I'd suggest you get the car to someone who can help you determine what you're starting with before replacing hardware.
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Old October 12th, 2018, 15:32   #12
IndigoBlueWagon
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If the pump is rusty odds are the injector bodies are, too. Unpleasant as it may be, I'd suggest you send them out to a Bosch repair center and have them cleaned, new nozzles installed, and tested. It will probably make the difference between passing and not passing SMOG. You may find you need new complete injectors, as you do a pump. Bad alternative fuels can be a money pit.

If you get the injectors working properly I would think .184s with an 11mm pump and the IQ set higher than usual should pass SMOG. But I really don't know. I'm applying logic, which may or may not work in this situation.
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Old October 12th, 2018, 16:01   #13
rohls
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You guys are great; thank you!


Yes, definitely going to go through the injectors and clean them...see how bad they are. Chances are I'll replace them soon, BUT I'd like to see if this car is going to run at all before I put more and more $$ into 'er.


I was thinking something along the lines of ultrasonic bath with some warmed-up rust remover as solvent...? Then test them..I'm pretty sure my Grandpa has a injector tester.


Thanks





Quote:
Originally Posted by IndigoBlueWagon View Post
If the pump is rusty odds are the injector bodies are, too. Unpleasant as it may be, I'd suggest you send them out to a Bosch repair center and have them cleaned, new nozzles installed, and tested. It will probably make the difference between passing and not passing SMOG. You may find you need new complete injectors, as you do a pump. Bad alternative fuels can be a money pit.

If you get the injectors working properly I would think .184s with an 11mm pump and the IQ set higher than usual should pass SMOG. But I really don't know. I'm applying logic, which may or may not work in this situation.
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Old October 19th, 2018, 15:48   #14
rohls
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Injectors are all cleaned up with the ultrasonic cleaner: look great. I even bench tested them with a proper injector tester.


Thanks for the help.





Quote:
Originally Posted by rohls View Post
You guys are great; thank you!


Yes, definitely going to go through the injectors and clean them...see how bad they are. Chances are I'll replace them soon, BUT I'd like to see if this car is going to run at all before I put more and more $$ into 'er.


I was thinking something along the lines of ultrasonic bath with some warmed-up rust remover as solvent...? Then test them..I'm pretty sure my Grandpa has a injector tester.


Thanks
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Old October 20th, 2018, 21:25   #15
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