Hypermiling...anyone tried it?

dan30thz28

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Hello,
Has anyone tried it? Let me know your results, and if you really think it's worth it. Thanks, and I look forward to your responses.

Sincerely,
 

hitman

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I read an article in the Birmingham news the other day about it. The thought of pushing your car out of the driveway is a little to hardcore/extreme for me. If you try hypermiling, let us know about your progress.
 

turborabbitgti

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NY
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i have tried doing that in my gti, i wouldnt consider it hypermiling but just more efficient way of driving. sometimes i would turn off my car about a mile away from home and time it perfectly so that i would roll into my driveway, other times i would use the brake to stop cuz i went to fast. when going to school i would always go to the spot closest to the entrance/exit, so i wouldnt waste .2 miles heading uphill for a better parking spot. i coast to stops when i know a red light will stay red for awhile, and yea theres more but just drive effieciently and you will be fine. by doing this i experienced an average 6-8 mpg gain
 

Croberts

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Not to be a jerk but turning off your engine while driving is illegal in most places and down right dangerous. Brakes and power steering don't work well with no assist.
 

rotarykid

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The steering only locks if you remove the key and if you are that stupid don't try it . IF you try this a quick off & on of the key is all that is required and all will still work turn signals and anything else tied to the key being in the on position .

And on PS & PB , PS is 99 % disengaged above parking lot speeds and the PB run off of vacuum so plenty is in the reservoir . If this was really illegal then hybrids wouldn't be allowed on the roads . Because this is exactly how they improve mpgs , by turning engine on & off .

I've been using a rolling start , using gravity for years and it really does make a difference in over all mpgs by avoiding the cold start of the day .
 

velociT

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I tried coasting in gear as much as possible and slowing down on the highway to about 63... made a big difference.
 

fitzski

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Ottawa
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Uh... hmm... Well, none...
rotarykid said:
And on PS & PB , PS is 99 % disengaged above parking lot speeds...
I strongly disagree... with the engine off, the steering is VERY HEAVY... not at all like steering a car with manual steering, and most definitely not the same as when your car is running and you're driving above parking lot speed. (This is my experience from trying it out in both my MkIV Jetta 5sp, and my B5 W8 6sp.)

Try it in a vacant lot... even over 40 mph, the effect is dramatic. In an emergency maneuver, I've no doubt that the car will not behave in the manner that the driver both expects and requires - it simply will not respond as quickly.

As to legality... hybrids do it so it must be OK? I don't follow that logic... Hybrids are engineered to operate in respect of all other rules of the road, even when the ICE is shut down (electric power steering, for example). It's simply not the same thing. In many States, just coasting in neutral is illegal, let alone actually shutting off the engine.
http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3361

As to my own hypermiling techniques... the most important thing happens before you even get in the car - Route Planning. Choose the optimal route for your combination of priorities (fuel efficiency, travel time & distance, accessibility... whatever). Consider traffic volume (esp at various times of day), speed limits, road topography, construction, etc. Plan ahead and link trips together. I never "go grocery shopping", I always "stop at the store on the way home".

In the car, the most significant factor is observation - really pay attention to how (and why) you're using the right pedal, and evaluate every opportunity to see if you really need to be on the gas, or if you could just coast for those 100' or whatever instead.

Some specific things:
- if you know the light is changing to red, get off the gas immediately and coast in gear as much as possible... brake early if you can, and try to keep the vehicle rolling until the light changes.
- similar for stop signs... if there is a line of cars ahead of you, slow down further back so you can time it that you just roll to the line and don't have to stop-and-go as each car proceeds through.
- ease off the gas on downhills; you won't lose much (if any) speed, and if you get back on the gas while you've still got momentum from the hill ends, you'll get back to cruising speed with little effort
- slow down;

I've only become really disciplined with these things in the last couple of months, and I've seen a measurable benefit (~4 to 5mpg). If you want extreme numbers, you have to do extreme behaviour... something I'm not prepared to do, principally for the gross inconvenience to myself, but also to others on the road.
 

Hot Georgia

Veteran Member
I drove form 1976 to 2004 with extremely heavy foot. A Left lane driver who'd practically gas & brake at the same time, a traffic swerving tailgater and the car ahead just wasn't fast enough.

After all, faster you go, the sooner you arrive so it's a wash- Right??
Ignorance is truly bliss.

Then we moved out into a rural area, and 16MPG in a wore out 4cyl Dodge Spirit with gas over $1.25, I had to find a more economical way.

So I bought an efficient car and immediately found a new interest in saving gas money. My goal have always been #1 Safety #2 Courtesy #3 Efficiency.

Hypermiling have completely replaced my habits of old- I don't really think too much about it anymore- it's just became the way I drive.

I'm getting better than 60MPG in a car which EPA rates at 47, and can't believe the money I've wasted all the past years in wasteful habits.

We also have a 2001 Grand Caravan V6 with EPA at 24MPG, It did better than 30MPG with only basic techniques. (But my wife thinks nothing of economy so it's back to about 20)

Compared to the way I used to drive, might as well just flip a quarter out the window every single mile.

BTW
Hypermiling doesn't mandate that you drive engine-off or do any extreme things. People are free to drive as wasteful as they want, it's up to them and none of my own business.
But some of the wasteful folks come up with all kinds of excuses why they drive the way they do: Some say it's discourtious to other drivers (Not so if done properly), some say it cost a lot of time (Only a couple minutes) and others say it's just dangerous.

If one desires to learn more efficient driving it's only an improvement, and hats off to those who make an effort.

-Steve
 
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toastblows

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minnesota
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2003 jetta GLS
Back in the 70s and 80s everyone used some techniques of hypermiling....you know driving the speed limit instead of 85mph in rush hour...... What that saves gas???? Someone needs to tell me these things, Im joe america and have tunnel vision towards life.
 

toastblows

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minnesota
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The BMW 118d i drove in germany shut itself off at stops if the wheels were not moving and the clutch was out......they hypermile for you....must be nice to live in an advanced automotive society.
 

hitman

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It's all about mpg isn't it? Of course it is! That's why I and several other people joined this community of tdi lovers. To find ways to save fuel. I use a few of the hypermiling techniques myself. But Driving with windows up and no ac in the south is too extreme for me. I'd pass out behind the wheel at some point. But if someone wants to try this, so be it. To each his own.
 
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rotarykid

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If you have to make very sharp turns coming up leave the engine on then . But if you are on a long straight stretch then very little steering input is required .

I have to disagree about the A4 Jetta , I drive one regularly and there is no steering assist going down the road on a straight stretch .

On German cars like my VWs A2s & A4 and B4 TDIs we have variable assist to steering , when you don't need it it's not there saving energy strain on the engine .

On the current electric steering assist I don't have enough experience with to say yet . On the ones that I drive regularly you have maybe 1% power assist to steering by design at speed going down the road , negligible on or off .

If you are in something that has extreme assist always like many domestic cars , which I wouldn't be driving because you can't feel the road then doing this might not be a good idea . But in the cars I drive the difference on & off to the steering is almost unmeasurable . I drove non-assisted steering A1 & A2 Rabbits & Jettas diesels for years so it's a no biggie to do this . The rack & Pinion steering system VW has been using for years is a very good system that requires very little assist even stopped .

Hybrids use the same system but controlled by a box under the hood where my system is controlled by my brain . I'll take my brain to the box under the hood any day . There is nothing it does that I can't do in a more efficient way to deal all specific situations and in a safe manner .

I've got close to 30 years of experience driving for max mpgs safely over 3,000,000 miles so I always achieve higher mpgs running around in city traffic at lower speeds . All the cars I've owned over the years weren't necessarily the most efficient but I drove them in a manor to push my mpgs most of the time above 30 mpgUS even on my rotary engine stuff .


If you aren't comfortable driving like this don't . But to many of this is just , not more than a tweak of what we all already do in everyday driving of a manual trans can no more . During normal operating conditions in a manual trans vehicle you spend at least 30 % of your time in "N" anyway while driving around . All the above is doing is just using a few techniques to increase mpgs by as much as 20-25% while doing what you are already doing .

If all want to do is just drive without you having any input in how the car functions just get an automatic and shut up about your lousy mpgs ;) , sorry but I just don't see the use of having an automatic anything .

If automatics were all there were I think I would walk . I drive a stick because I love to drive having control over what happens when . Been doing it so long it takes no effort , it's automatic for me to shift my gears for what's going on around me . Plus after all my years of teaching drivers to row their own gears I'm convinced knowing how to row your own gears makes you a more attentive and safer driver . Every automatic only driver I've ever met had little if any clue about how clueless they really were to driving conditions around them . Once they learned to row their own gears they were all amazed that they hadn't killed themselves before . Even if they didn't drive a stick after they learned they were never that clueless again .

To me at least driving an automatic is such a boring operation that leads to inattention to driving conditions in even the best of drivers and I want nothing to do with it . Not to mention the hit in mpgs that are a given .

Not gonna do it , wouldn't be prudent ...........................:D

And I use the ac when I need it as in our TDIs if you drive for max mpgs it makes almost no differnece . In the south from April to October it is a must .
 
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ruking

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dan30thz28 said:
Hello,
Has anyone tried it? Let me know your results, and if you really think it's worth it. Thanks, and I look forward to your responses.

Sincerely,
To me it is a series of scenarios game! The mpg is really the scorecard.

One type (situation) scenario that still amazes me: how one can drive 584 miles in 6.25 hours of travel time, take on 12.1 gals of fuel for 48.26 mpg!!!

Another due to 3 state roving bands of Highway Patrol 5 car wolf packs (primed for instant and multiple "customer service" stops ), going 75 mpg with bursts to 80 mph, getting 59 mpg!

Another was driving 300 miles of stop and go driving (mostly stop) in downtown Las Vegas, filling for 44 mpg (one of the worst tanks).

I actually would be wary of driving 55 mph and less for long distances, as road hypnosis would probably set in and I could run off the road, hit a bridge, hit a tree, etc. That would definitely ruin my day!! However I would have gotten (swag) 60-65 mpg!!?? I have actually done this breaking in Z06 tires (100 miles round trip), where the fast lane speeds approached 85-90 mph. Once you get used to being passed by literally thousands of cars, it is an interesting study in being in a weird cocoon.
 
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fitzski

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Uh... hmm... Well, none...
rotarykid said:
I have to disagree about the A4 Jetta , I drive one regularly and there is no steering assist going down the road on a straight stretch.
Of course there's no assist on a straight stretch of road... you're not turning the wheel!!! The point, as stated above, is that "in an emergency maneuver, I've no doubt that the car will not behave in the manner that the driver both expects and requires - it simply will not respond as quickly."

CONSIDERABLE effort is required to turn the wheel with the engine off, at ANY speed. Period. It is absolutely nowhere close to the same, and certainly not 99% the same, as the effort required to turn the wheel when the car is running.

Is this where you say you only practice EOC when it's "safe", when there's nobody around? :rolleyes:

And yeah... it's so sad that the automatic has become so pervasive... it's the single biggest factor preventing me from leaping into a B6 V6 4mo Variant... Tiptronic only! :mad:

HotGeorgia - your comments are bang on.


The variability, of course, is that we all have drastically different interpretations of what constitutes your top 2 priorities - certainly safety, and almost assuredly, courtesy. We all know what efficiency is.
 

Andrewh

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Allen, TX
you have to becareful in an automatic. Manuals in neutral might not be a problem, but if you shut off your engine in an automatic car, you are hurting or could hurt your transmission.
There is only one pump circulating fluid keeping it cool while it is turning, and it is driven by the engine side. If you coast with the engine off, the parts on the drive shaft side are still turning but without lubrication.
 

rotarykid

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Piedmont of N.C. & the plains of Colorado
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Well I'm 6'1" and can bench at least 260 lbs so I don't think I would have no trouble turning the wheel no more than is required at any given situation I might come across when doing this . If I need to turn the wheel more than that it's a mute point anyway . And really in the A4 it doesn't take that much effort to turn the wheel at low speeds when the assist in normally there .
 

rotarykid

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Piedmont of N.C. & the plains of Colorado
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1997 Passat TDI White,99.5 Blue Jetta TDI
Andrewh said:
you have to becareful in an automatic. Manuals in neutral might not be a problem, but if you shut off your engine in an automatic car, you are hurting or could hurt your transmission.
There is only one pump circulating fluid keeping it cool while it is turning, and it is driven by the engine side. If you coast with the engine off, the parts on the drive shaft side are still turning but without lubrication.
I agree with this one in an automatic don't kill the engine while moving .
 
Joined
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CA - San Jose, USA
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Golf 2002 TDI automatic, 55k miles
BMW 118d start stop feature

After toastblows mentioned the BMW 118d I found the following:

http://www.bmw.com/com/en/newvehicles/1series/5door/2007/allfacts/engine/4c_diesel.html

BTW this would be an easy aftermarket modification. Anybody interested in selling this as an add on? I remember that something like this existed in the 80s.

Auto Start Stop function.


A clever way to save fuel: the Auto Start Stop function turns off the engine each time the vehicle comes to a complete halt - such as at traffic lights - and restarts it automatically. A reduction in fuel consumption is the result.


The principle is simple: if the engine is not running, it cannot consume fuel. The Auto Start Stop function turns off the engine whenever it is not needed. In a traffic jam or in stop-and-go traffic, simply putting your BMW into neutral and taking your foot from the clutch will activate the function. "Start Stop" on the Info Display signals that the engine has been turned off.
To set off again, just put your BMW back into gear: the moment you depress the clutch, the engine immediately springs back to life and you can drive on without a moment's delay.
Driving comfort and driving safety are not affected by the Auto Start Stop function. The function is not activated, for example, until the engine has reached the ideal running temperature. The same applies if the air conditioner has not yet brought the cabin to the desired temperature, if the battery is not adequately charged or if the driver moves the steering wheel.
The Auto Start Stop function is coordinated by a central control unit that monitors data from all relevant sensors, the starter motor and the alternator. If necessary for comfort or safety, the control unit will automatically restart the engine: for example, if the vehicle begins to roll, the battery charge falls too low or condensation forms on the windscreen.
Furthermore, the system also recognises the difference between a temporary stop and the end of the trip. It will not restart the engine if driver's seatbelt is undone, or if the door or bonnet is open. If desired, the Auto Start Stop function can be completely deactivated with the press of a button.
When used consistently, the Auto Start Stop function delivers significant reductions in fuel consumption and CO2 emissions.
 

ruking

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San Jose area, CA
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2003 VW Jetta, 5 M, Reflex Silver: 09 Jetta, 6 Sp DSG, Candy White: 12 VW Touareg, 8 Sp A/T, Flint Gray
The auto start stop function is interesting for sure. Like a lot of other things, the real issue is the cost benefit. The real numbers are probably buried in the cost of the vehicles so equipped, which either are not easily seen or need some to a lot more deeper research. While I understand RotaryKid to say traffic idling is app 30% in neutral, studies in REAL WORLD % idle time are lacking. One macro logical indicator is overall lower fuel mileage. So when I was looking at the Prius, the claimed city mpg was actually HIGHER than highway. COOL? The real world showed it did not get anywhere NEAR the stated city mpg let alone the highway. This of course is not to say that 44-48 is not good, but way off 60/50 to be sure.

So for example I will look to (manually) shut down the engine when idling looks to be 60 seconds or more. However I heard a so called "hypermiler" say 10 seconds. So in stated practice, I am 6x more wasteful. Right away I can change my behavior or NOT!?
 
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hitman

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Jun 10, 2008
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Nauvoo,Al.
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2003 Jetta auto (sold) 2009 Jetta TDI 1996 B4V Passat Wagon TDI
We have auto start on some of our locomotives on the railroad. It functions differently though. It shuts the engine down only when it has idled in neutral for a period of time. Saves the railroads a ton of money.
 
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ruking

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2003 VW Jetta, 5 M, Reflex Silver: 09 Jetta, 6 Sp DSG, Candy White: 12 VW Touareg, 8 Sp A/T, Flint Gray
This might be off topic, but I have read/heard calculations that railroads in effect get something like 123 mpg per ton of freight shipped?
 

Bayou_Flyer

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2010 Golf 4Door 6M
rotarykid said:
...I don't think I would have no trouble turning the wheel no more than is required at any given situation I might come across when doing this.
Possible scenarios: a child runs into the street, a deer in the headlights, an object falls off/out of a vehicle onto the road. I would suggest finding an open area and simulate an emergency steering situation. Thinking you'll have no trouble and actually knowing it are two different things.

On a side note, a coworker hypermiles in his Prius, driving 55 on the interstate, coasting up hills and overpasses, then accelerating down. He drives to work around 4am, so traffic is not a concern, but he says he gets slow enough up the overpasses that he turns on his flashers so the truckers don't run over him.:eek:
 

RabbitGTI

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During my record run from the Minneapolis to Madison, WI, I drove my B4 between 80 and 100 mph and got 44.3 mpg. I lifted off a little on the long downhill parts....that was the hypermiling bit. :D I also had a lot of cargo and four people, so I guess I was carpooling which is also very Green :)
 

rotarykid

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Piedmont of N.C. & the plains of Colorado
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1997 Passat TDI White,99.5 Blue Jetta TDI
ruking said:
The auto start stop function is interesting for sure. Like a lot of other things, the real issue is the cost benefit. The real numbers are probably buried in the cost of the vehicles so equipped, which either are not easily seen or need some to a lot more deeper research. While I understand RotaryKid to say traffic idling is app 30% in neutral, studies in REAL WORLD % idle time are lacking. One macro logical indicator is overall lower fuel mileage. So when I was looking at the Prius, the claimed city mpg was actually HIGHER than highway. COOL? The real world showed it did not get anywhere NEAR the stated city mpg let alone the highway. This of course is not to say that 44-48 is not good, but way off 60/50 to be sure.
That 30 % number figures in time between shifts and coasting to lights , ect......... . Every time you shift you spend some time @ minimum throttle in "N" .


ruking said:
So for example I will look to (manually) shut down the engine when idling looks to be 60 seconds or more. However I heard a so called "hyper miler" say 10 seconds. So in stated practice, I am 6x more wasteful. Right away I can change my behavior or NOT!?
I only use the kill option when the engine is cold before the turbo gets hot . Also it is VERY!!!! important to make sure the turbo has spooled back down before you cut it's oil supply by killing the engine . And to see the most gains try not to use the starter to restart the engine as the battery drain can hurt mpgs . When I do this I just put in the highest gear I can above 30 mph 5th is fine and gently bump the engine back to life .

Bayou_Flyer said:
Possible scenarios: a child runs into the street, a deer in the headlights, an object falls off/out of a vehicle onto the road. I would suggest finding an open area and simulate an emergency steering situation. Thinking you'll have no trouble and actually knowing it are two different things.
FIrst I'm from the era when we didn't have all that fancy stuff . I preferred my old stuff without PS and am just fine driving an old car without PB . Drove cars like this for hundreds of thousands of miles over the years . Our rack & pinion steering systems need very little assist and only when the car is completely stopped or close to it do get any measurable amount .


I'm betting all the people crying about this are too young to have ever driven cars & trucks like this , I'm not .

And having or not having the engine on will not effect the operation of these systems . Our cars are designed they have to be , to still give control whether the engine is running or not . And in places where what you speak of could happen I already take extra care . DO YOU ??


Bayou_Flyer said:
On a side note, a coworker hyper miles in his Prius, driving 55 on the interstate, coasting up hills and overpasses, then accelerating down. He drives to work around 4am, so traffic is not a concern, but he says he gets slow enough up the overpasses that he turns on his flashers so the truckers don't run over him.:eek:
I don't do these things on high speed freeways & highways , in the western US 2 lane roads are 65-75 mph posted just like interstates . I only go for max mpgs in city traffic @ lower speeds 30-50 mph posted where I feel like I'm not interfering with anyone else . On the highway it's 70-80 mph all day long , I don't really feel safe doing this kind of stuff interfering with everyone else on the freeway . Trying this kind of stuff in traffic normally cruising along @ 80 mph is stupid , inconsiderate and just asking to die .
 

fitzski

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Uh... hmm... Well, none...
As mentioned, everybody obviously has different interpretations or thresholds for what they consider to be "safe". My threshold does not include intentionally defeating essential operating components of the car. The fact is that with your engine off, you cannot react as quickly or effectively as someone in the same situation who, all else being equal, has not shut if off. That handicap is a step too far for me, and for my family that counts on me - the risk, however mitigated you believe it to be, is just not worth ANY fuel savings, IMO.

Yes, I remember manual steering... it's not that long ago you know, and it's not like it disappeared overnight. The difference, IMO, is that your mind and body, your muscle memory, *expects* power steering.

Andy... you're trying to compare accidents to premeditated actions... doesn't that just reinforce the point that a few us are making, that anything can happen?
 
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rotarykid

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fitzski said:
As mentioned, everybody obviously has different interpretations or thresholds for what they consider to be "safe". My threshold does not include intentionally defeating essential operating components of the car. The fact is that with your engine off, you cannot react as quickly or effectively as someone in the same situation who, all else being equal, has not shut if off. That handicap is a step too far for me, and for my family that counts on me - the risk, however mitigated you believe it to be, is just not worth ANY fuel savings, IMO.

Yes, I remember manual steering... it's not that long ago you know, and it's not like it disappeared overnight. The difference, IMO, is that your mind and body, your muscle memory, *expects* power steering.

Andy... you're trying to compare accidents to premeditated actions... doesn't that just reinforce the point that a few us are making, that anything can happen?
Agree to disagree ..........................
 

Dunhamjr

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Seattle, WA
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none right now
Croberts said:
Not to be a jerk but turning off your engine while driving is illegal in most places and down right dangerous. Brakes and power steering don't work well with no assist.
oh god.. not in here too. I was hoping the vwvortex was the only place we had people talking about how dangerous and illegal hypermiling is with out ever having done it.

as for it being dangerous. that is your opinion. i have done it with no issues, no accidents, no close calls.

as for it being illegal... it may be illegal in some places, but not everywhere.

as for gains... on my 98 Suzuki Swift with an EPA combined 35mpg... I am getting an average of 45mpg over my last 4 tanks.
 
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