My new CCV system

EDIT: I am no longer using this system as It indeed got clogged up. Not by freezing, but the paper element eventually got so saturated with oil, it became restrictive. Do not do this to your car !!!

I was at a GTG last month and saw this mod on TDIKevs car, so I figured I would try it myself. I wanted to document it so others can offer some suggestions and feedback.

It is basically just a spin on fuel filter that I hope will trap the oil. Total parts were about $50 and it took about 1 hour to install including the time to fabricate the bracket.

Here are the parts I used:


The filter base is made by Baldwin. Part # FB1311 ($30)
The filter is from Fleetguard. Part # FF105 ($10)
The muffler clamp is 3" from any auto parts store ($3)
The aluminum angle was bought at my local Canadian tire, but I have seen it at Home Depot & equivilant. ($3)
The clear hose is 3/4" braided hose. I needed about 3 feet. ($3)
And finally, the 2 90* elbows are 3/4" plastic elbows also from Home Depot. ($2)

The 3/4" plastic elbows are perfect for this application since they fit very snuggly in the inlet & outlet holes of the filter housing. No need to find the correct thread, just spin them in as far as they will go. You may want to add some thread sealant, but I don't think it is necessary. It is quite snug. I cut mine down a bit to make it look a little nicer.


Then I made a bracket from the piece of angle. I just had to cut out a bit to allow for clearance issues:


The bracket bolts up to the filter base with standard 3/8" bolts. I had these in my tool box already, but shorter ones could be used. I then attached the bracket to the base and used the muffler clamp to mount the bracket to the oil filter housing:


Then just measure & cut the hose to length and instal. I used a heat gun to soften the ends of the hose to make it easier to slide over the fittings. Here is a before & after shot of my CCV system:




Once again, I would like to thank TDIKev for the idea as well as Dieseltwo for locating the filter base for me. I just had to cross reference the size of the base thread with a fuel filter to come up with the one I found. There are about 30 different fuel filters or fuel/water separators that will fit this base. I just bought whatever the Mack dealership had in stock. But you can buy a smaller or larger one if you like. I will try a filter/separator next after I test this setup for a while.

I will report my results in a couple thousand miles to see how well it is working. BTW, the filter blows through very easily with no restriction. Hopefully it stays that way

NOTE: Due to the fact that this system is still in the testing phase, I have to emphasize that if you try it, you are doing so at your own risk. We are testing this system and hope to have results soon to share with everybody. I posted this for feedback and further discussion. Please consider this when deciding on trying this system. Thanks.

GTA probably gets cold enough that the filter where it is located would probably turn into a vapor-to-water condenser and pretty soon water-to-ice solidifier

If freezing really is a concern, it would be easy to add a small battery warmer blanket around the filter housing. I hear those battery blankets are fairly easy to find up there in the Great White North. This could be wired in with an engine heater to pre-heat the filter--once the car is running, there should be enough heat from the engine to keep it from freezing up.

My $.02 USD (that's $.025 CAN)

It might pay to add a 0-5 psi pressure gauge to the inlet so you can monitor crankcase pressure. Once the filter media becomes saturated with oil, perhaps in 3,000 miles, the back pressure could increase appreciably.

I don't know why everyone is so concerned with these things freezing. Oil filters don't freeze & clog up when you leave the car overnight, so why would this. Sure, oil thickens when it is cold, but any water content would be so minimal that it might take up 2-3% of the bottom of the filter. The filter medium would never get so saturated that it would become 100% blocked. It is a pretty big filter. Once the engine is running, the blowby gasses are quite warm and with it being a closed system, there would be plenty of heat to keep anything from freezing.

Don't worry, I plan do do plenty of testing. Like popping the hood when its -30 out and blowing through it to make sure it still flows freely. If not, I will report it here. Just like i did when my oil separator got plugged up after only 1 week. Thats how we find out what things work and what things don't, by experimenting.

These bases will also accomodate a fuel/water separator, so if I wanted to, I could drain it from the bottom once a week or so, but I seriously don't think this is going to be a problem. I will try one of these next time I change the filter:

I like the idea of a oil filter element in the CCV path instead of an air filter-like foam element. I always wonder what extended temperatures with oil would do to a foam element.

Looks cool. I was thinking about the same location for a amsoil bypass filter.

Might be something to think about. Don't most oil filters have an anti drawn back valve? If the hoses were installed so that the direction inside the filter were reveresed it would be blocked by the valve.
Though you did use a fuel filter.

Were you not happy with the ON setup?

This may sound stupid but I'll never learn if I don't ask. Is the CCV filter used to keep CC fumes out of the intake to reduce clogging?

TIA,
don

Nigel,
Very nice setup.
I agree with Nigel, this is a closed system, with the amount of heat passing through this setup, I doubt very much if it would freeze. Besides, if there is water that is getting trapped inside the filter, when the car is shutoff it will run to the bottom of the filter and freeze out of the way.
The fuel filter with the water separator is a nice idea too. Drain the water every fillup, then there's no worries.
I will also be testing this setup over the winter and will report my findings.

I've changed the direction of the hoses sligntly....


to fit the engine cover on before winter. Stealth. eh?

Is the CCV filter used to keep CC fumes out of the intake to reduce clogging?

Click to expand...

Bingo!

Were you not happy with the ON setup?

Click to expand...

It worked ok. It stopped a lot of the oil, but not all of it. I would guess that it stopped between 80-90% of the oil?My main reason for switching is for convenience. I didn't have any extra filters and to be honest, I drive a lot and I don't like the idea of changing the filters every few weeks. I am hoping this setup will last at least 10-20k?

... [he] did use a fuel filter.

Click to expand...

You're right, I just noticed that.

That looks good Kevin. I haven't tried my cover yet. I want to keep it off while I test this setup for a few weeks. I am also using the clear hose to monitor the inlet & outlet hose conditions, but it is not very flexible. So I will change to a different hose when I am ready to put my cover on so it fits easily.

1) oil filters dont freeze overnight 'cause they do not have water in them
2)for the CCV filter, water will initialy be in vapor form (remember hot CCV gases) in contact with cooler paper (not necessary cold) water will condense and moisten the paper/fiber element, it may freeze while running from the incoming ram charged air blowing through the grill or freeze while the engine is stopped in subzero temp's. Once fiber/paper element saturated or impregnated with frozen water vapor (not drenched/soacked, just impregnated) it may have sufficient restriction to cause enough crankcase presure so engine oil would blow-by turbo seals, this oil would then feed the engine into overspeed and possibly severe damage.

Such engine oil blow-by runaways/overspeed are pretty unpredictable and are so sudden that the driver has no action possible. On truck engine runaways/overspeed are big enough problems that intake shutoffs have been developped, see for yourself : Amot Intake Shutoff

I agree with everything you say, but remember that oil and water do not mix. The condensation should fall to the bottom of the filter quite quickly after shutdown. Much before the temp inside the filter gets low enough to freeze it. I saw first hand the water condesation collect in my old in-line fuel filter I had on my previous setup. But it will not soak the filter element since the element should be oily, The water droplets should just sheet off.




Anyway, I appreciate your concerns and I will certainly keep an eye on it and let everyone know how it reacts.

The assumption here is that the paper gets oiled before it gets wet. Is that correct?

I am interested to see your long term results. I am skeptical as to how much oil this filter will block. After all it is an OIL filter designed to pass oil and not particles. Once the filter element becomes saturated with the oil vapors, then won't it eventually pass the oil?

It's not an oil filter it's a fuel filter.

After all it is an OIL filter designed to pass oil and not particles

Click to expand...

Wingnut's old setup with the small fuel filter seemed to do a descent job, I'm interested to see what kind of improvement this filter will make.

An oil filter flows oil because it is full of oil. It has no choice. This filter will be empty and I am hoping the oil will stick to the element as the vapor passes through.

As Rich said, my tiny inline filter did a good job of separating the oil. When I first put it in, the hose pre filter bacame black within 1000km, but it was still clear post filter. But due to my neglegence, I didn't change it for a while and it became saturated and soon allowed the oil to pass through. Here is a picture I took of the previous setup soon after instalation. You can clearly see the difference in hose clarity before & after the inline fuel filter:


So you are right, it will pass oil once it is saturated. My hope is the significant increase in filter surface area will allow a much longer change interval before saturation and replacement is neccessary. This is not intended to be a permanent solution, just a less high maintenance solution. I am open to all types of devices and this is the one I am currently trying. If it doesn't work, I will go back to the drawing board.

But keep the suggestions & comments coming. This is out there for discussion so we can all learn.

This filter configuration will work quite well at trapping oil. Let's remember that in an oil/fuel filter, we have a fluid moving a fluid (the oil/fuel molecules pushing against each other). What Wingnut now has is a gas flowing through a fluid. Worst case would be that some drops of oil will drip on the otherside of the filter media and pool at the bottom of the filter. Blowby is therefore reduced to a minimum and his maintenance schedule greatly lenghtened (intake cleaning).

Wingnut...

nice CCV, couple points:
Water Vapor:
-there is tons of water going through the CCV. TONS of it.

Problem with that is the water vapor is moving with oil mist, and, well the problem is the oil and water don't separate when they are that small.

It can make the best emulsion ever. I know. I made it with my filter. My problem was that it got cool... the water vapor was getting trapped with the oil as the oil was being stopped the vapor was too.

To trap oil vapor it still comes down to depth. An oil filter is very very thin depth wise.

A very porous deep filter would work much better than a thin pleated filter.

If there was a spin on i think it'd be ideal... if it was deep rather than pleated - and the pore size... that's what i'm worried about... that FRAM tripple sided filter stuff might work...

---

Another thing

KEEP IT WARM - at all costs... (when the temps go below freezing)...
That'll help prevent the emulsion forming...

get that engine cover on... And I like the straight elbow in TDIKev's....

---

over all a great idea... i like it - just keep it warm and work on finding the ideal filter...

I really like this setup for its simplicity--it's sure cheaper than my ProVent install! I wonder if it would be possible to install some kind of inline pressure relief valve that could open if the filter ever got plugged with ice and vent excess pressure to the atmosphere until the filter got warm enough for the ice to melt?

I wonder if it would be possible to install some kind of inline pressure relief valve that could open if the filter ever got plugged with ice and vent excess pressure to the atmosphere until the filter got warm enough for the ice to melt?

Click to expand...

Kevins system has sort of a built in failsafe. He eliminated the CCV puck and just has a 90* elbow in the top of the valve cover. It is in there loosely, so if there is a blockage causing a pressure buildup, it will pop off very easily.

Geoff, thanks for the info. As I have said before, I only got the fuel filter I am currently using because it was in stock at the local Mack dealer. If I wanted a fuel filter/water separator, I would have had to order a whole case. So I have to source one elsewhere. I will install a separator before the freezing temps arive, no worries. The seperators are designed to repel water, so for this application, I am sure it will work fine. I have had an extensive e-mail discussion with Al about this setup and he has offered some great insight.

I am monitoring it daily and so far after just 3 days and about 300 miles, It still flows very freely and is doing a good job of stopping the oil. Now I know its just 3 days, but i will update every week or so to document the process. You can see the difference in the lines already:


Yes, I do have a lot of blowby. The previous owner used dino oil in the car before I bought it, so I have no idea how well the engine was protected .

I'm going to try and make a cyclone filter on a smaller scale to a dust collector cyclone I built. Imagine this thing, only about 10 inches tall. By the way, the wwII filter that was popular a year or so ago is a cyclone, but without the taper and without a receptical for the accumulated condensate.

I am sure this has been discussed, but I haven't seen it anywhere yet, so I have to ask.

Why can't the hose fromt he valve cover just be routed down and exhaust out below the car and the hole at the intake plugged. I am a farmer and this type of blowby is common on tractors (I know we are not talking about a tractor here, but we are talking about working around the CCV). Are there ill effects possible that I am not considering? Loss of oil pressure etc.?

Sorry for possibly asking a very rookie question and raiding the conversation. Like everyone else I am trying to find the best solution to the intake clogging problem. BTW, this thread, along with many others, has been very intersting to follow. Thanks to all for all the great discussion.

Why can't the hose fromt he valve cover just be routed down and exhaust out below the car and the hole at the intake plugged.

Click to expand...

People here refer to it as an Elephant hose, lots of people have them, they cause no problems, and eliminate intake clogging with a completley disabled EGR (hose unhooked with VAG-com mod to avoid CEL). I've had one for ~7 months, works great.

-Jack

The only problems with the elephant hose are:
1. It does put a variety of crankcase pollutants out in the atmosphere.
2. It will drip oil wherever you park.

If you install a good commercially-available CCV filter (Mann, Racor) you will solve both of the above problems while keeping oil mist out of your intake manifold.

I recently picked up a new car to replace my wifes Audi 4K ( a 98 Mystique V6 ) There are a few people on the Contour forums that have come upp with a novel idea that will work for the CCV. An pneumatic oil seperator ( like a Campbell Hausfield type ) While these are great for the 3/8" size needed for the Duratec V6's, we need one a little bigger. Fear not, they do make them and in 3/4" sizes too ...
How to build a CCV oil seperator

I'll try to get one and install it. I'll let ya know how it goes !!