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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW MKVII-Mk7 Golf family including Golf Wagon (~ 2015 +)

VW MKVII-Mk7 Golf family including Golf Wagon (~ 2015 +) Discussions area for the Mk7 (2015+) Golf and Golf Wagon TDIs based on the MQB (Modularer Querbaukasten) platform.

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Old November 2nd, 2019, 08:01   #16
redbarron55
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If a DSG the rattling is probably the DMF.
I had that problem with a 2009 JSW.
VW should warranty this for you if you can get one to admit the problem.
Either way Manual or Auto it still sounds like a DMF problem,
I think that there is a way to look at the flywheel and see it there is play in it (in neutral)
If there is then a spring had broken and failed.
Replace the flywheel.
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Old November 2nd, 2019, 15:50   #17
SilverWagon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfBrown View Post
How many DSGs are they actually seeing in the shop? And specifically of your year/generation? I know some of the previous DSGs like pre 2010 if not earlier had some issues. But from what Iíve read, with proper maintenance, the DSG is a beef cake. The clutch packs like their clean fluid. Itís essentially a manual trans that shifts automatically. Not necessarily as complex as a normal auto trans, least once a simple dumbed down video j saw on YouTube explaining how it goes through the gears. But the bonus of it being a manual shifted automatically, is it has the strength that goes alone with the mechanics of a manual.


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The shops that I called said that they don't specifically have a lot of DSG Volkswagen Transmissions coming in. They said that because it's fairly new that the lower end vehicles are installing dual clutch automatics in vehicles that are not Ferraris they're starting to see them. They did say that in general these dual-clutch automatics cost more to repair then the previous automatic transmissions. Does that have to do with the parts and more labor? I don't know but I would assume there is a learning curve and that they would charge for that extra time. One shop said that it cost upwards of $7,000 to have a dual clutch automatic repaired. I don't remember the manufacturer. It seems to me that if they are correct the dual-clutch automatic are best suited for someone who can afford a Ferrari when it comes to the transmission

I'm bias though. I don't think that a car can be considered a sports car without having a manual transmission. At what point is the car controlling the car rather than the driver? Its worse when it comes to the EV cars like a tesla. It's like playing Gran Turismo.
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Old November 2nd, 2019, 15:57   #18
SilverWagon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbarron55 View Post
If a DSG the rattling is probably the DMF.
I had that problem with a 2009 JSW.
VW should warranty this for you if you can get one to admit the problem.
Either way Manual or Auto it still sounds like a DMF problem,
I think that there is a way to look at the flywheel and see it there is play in it (in neutral)
If there is then a spring had broken and failed.
Replace the flywheel.
it's a manual. At this point Im thinking of just going to find a shop who will install an aftermarket stage 2 single mass flywheel with a full clutch assembly. I don't think ill have a problem with the the trans for almost the life of the car, except for transmission fluid changes, after I do that.

I asked vw if they found it to be a manufacturer defect, I could take home the new oem clutch assembly and use the warranty paid for labor to install an aftermarket hour and and they said no.
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Old November 2nd, 2019, 16:05   #19
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The noise you're describing sounds more like loose pieces in the bell housing; not anything inside the trany proper which is oil-filled. Other posters here have experienced damage to this trany's steel syncros soon after changing to a single mass flywheel so proceed with caution.
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Old November 2nd, 2019, 16:44   #20
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I haven't read anywhere yet where a DSG had to actually be rebuilt. Clutches and servos yes, total rebuild no. So what you are stating has little value as to what the rebuilders said. I would buy a good used one and have it swapped before paying $7k for a rebuild. I would guess the cost between clutch replacement wouldn't be all that different between the two.
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Old November 2nd, 2019, 17:32   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverWagon View Post
it's a manual. At this point Im thinking of just going to find a shop who will install an aftermarket stage 2 single mass flywheel with a full clutch assembly. I don't think ill have a problem with the the trans for almost the life of the car, except for transmission fluid changes, after I do that. .

Yeah, don't do that. Single mass flywheels and the 02Q trans. do not get along. Typically they last about 10k miles after the smf swap and then the synchros crumble.
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Old November 2nd, 2019, 17:35   #22
SilverWagon
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Originally Posted by Lightflyer1 View Post
I haven't read anywhere yet where a DSG had to actually be rebuilt. Clutches and servos yes, total rebuild no. So what you are stating has little value as to what the rebuilders said. I would buy a good used one and have it swapped before paying $7k for a rebuild. I would guess the cost between clutch replacement wouldn't be all that different between the two.
That very well could be. Like I said, the shops that I spoke with were speaking about all manufacturers of dual-clutch automatic Transmissions. There wasn't a shop that I spoke with who had a lot of experience specifically dealing with vw DSG Transmissions.
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Old November 2nd, 2019, 17:36   #23
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Originally Posted by turbobrick240 View Post
Yeah, don't do that. Single mass flywheels and the 02Q trans. do not get along. Typically they last about 10k miles after the smf swap and then the synchros crumble.
Thanks for the info. I haven't read that anywhere but I'll keep an eye out. That changes my planned solution if that's the case. Can you send me a link to the thread?

Last edited by SilverWagon; November 2nd, 2019 at 17:39.
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Old November 2nd, 2019, 17:42   #24
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Originally Posted by nathanso View Post
The noise you're describing sounds more like loose pieces in the bell housing; not anything inside the trany proper which is oil-filled. Other posters here have experienced damage to this trany's steel syncros soon after changing to a single mass flywheel so proceed with caution.

Speech to text error in edited reply

Would Volkswagen consider what's in the bellhousing a wear part?

I did a search to find more comments on synchros going bad with a single Mass flywheel. Can you link me to one?

Last edited by SilverWagon; November 2nd, 2019 at 18:46. Reason: Speech to text error in edited reply
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Old November 2nd, 2019, 17:49   #25
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Here - one of many threads: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=502715
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Old November 3rd, 2019, 17:16   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverWagon View Post
The shops that I called said that they don't specifically have a lot of DSG Volkswagen Transmissions coming in. They said that because it's fairly new that the lower end vehicles are installing dual clutch automatics in vehicles that are not Ferraris they're starting to see them. They did say that in general these dual-clutch automatics cost more to repair then the previous automatic transmissions. Does that have to do with the parts and more labor? I don't know but I would assume there is a learning curve and that they would charge for that extra time. One shop said that it cost upwards of $7,000 to have a dual clutch automatic repaired. I don't remember the manufacturer. It seems to me that if they are correct the dual-clutch automatic are best suited for someone who can afford a Ferrari when it comes to the transmission



I'm bias though. I don't think that a car can be considered a sports car without having a manual transmission. At what point is the car controlling the car rather than the driver? Its worse when it comes to the EV cars like a tesla. It's like playing Gran Turismo.


Sorry lagging on replying. The DSG trans has been out for over 15 years... if they are just starting to see them itís not the DSGs they are seeing. I know some of the early DSGs had issues with their servo or something if they nature, but not these late model ones. I get your point, manuals can be better but not always. Certain platforms have equal issues, while others one is a clear winner.

Regardless, the modern DSG is a stout gearbox, and plenty strong. Just likes itís fluid changes on a regular 40k basis. And any tuning issues one has with it can be fixed with some good tuning.

Hope you find your issue and a fix for said issue quickly and cheaply my friend.


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Old November 4th, 2019, 11:00   #27
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My guess, is this dealer also a Ford dealer, maybe the SA used to work at a ford dealership? The Getrag 6sp DCT of the focus/fiesta has been horrible and many a lawsuits have been brought up, they are applying their previous experience.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_P...t_transmission

DSG is in every auto GTI and R and GLI since 2010sih? The numbers of them on the street and rolling into VW dealers would raise flags for the dealers comments.

Either way you have a 6Spd MT with what i'd guess is a failling DMF. I'd bet dollars to donuts if youd be stupid enough to pay the dealer to open it up and investigate, they will come back 100% operator abuse, (heck, I bet they already have their mind made up and just trying to milk a golden cow), they'll say excessive bluing on the pressure plate, excessive heat yadda yadda yadda, even though the pressure plate prob is 100% within spec.

I'd run and find another dealer or just pony up the coin and do it out of pocket at some indy shop that'll prob cost you $1500.


BTW you found the one weakness of a MT, the dealer is 99% more likely to blame you for the failure yet that can almost never happen if a DMF on a DSG. Again the number of slipping 6MT clutches on GTIs and R's see this as another cash cow.
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Old November 4th, 2019, 11:11   #28
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If it has an internal problem in the gearbox itself, draining and examining the fluid will determine that much. Manuals rarely have stuff break inside them without sending a bunch of metal particles into the fluid.

Your description does not help much, but the typical manifestations of a bad DMF on a manual car are bad vibration, especially at idle (they can almost feel like the engine has a dead cylinder), and/or bad rattles at idle, bad chatter on takeoff upon releasing the clutch pedal...often FELT in the clutch pedal, as well as difficulty changing gears or engaging a gear unless the engine is shut off.

If you are sitting still, with the engine running, transmission in neutral, is there any noise or vibration? If you press the clutch in, do you feel anything abnormal? With the clutch depressed, engine still at idle, vehicle not moving, can you engage any and all gears? Any changes when you do? When you engage a gear with the engine running but the car not moving, NOTHING inside the transmission is spinning or moving or doing anything. Because the wheels ---> output shaft ---> input shaft are all locked together. The only thing moving at that point is the flywheel itself, and the pressure plate. The disc is also not moving, as it is rigidly attached via the splines to the input shaft.
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Old November 4th, 2019, 20:01   #29
SilverWagon
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Quote:
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Sorry lagging on replying. The DSG trans has been out for over 15 years... if they are just starting to see them itís not the DSGs they are seeing. I know some of the early DSGs had issues with their servo or something if they nature, but not these late model ones. I get your point, manuals can be better but not always. Certain platforms have equal issues, while others one is a clear winner.

Regardless, the modern DSG is a stout gearbox, and plenty strong. Just likes itís fluid changes on a regular 40k basis. And any tuning issues one has with it can be fixed with some good tuning.

Hope you find your issue and a fix for said issue quickly and cheaply my friend.


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This is the first time that I've learned anything about the manual transmission for my 2015 Golf. I'm already disappointed with how the stereo is integrated into everything. I would love to replace it because it's a POS even though it the high-end version for SEL vehicles.Now I'm learning that the transmission has Steel synchros that degrade after installing a single Mass flywheel. Disappointing.

Other than the handling, miles per gallon, and adequate power, I'm disappointed. I've owned three alh jetta's, all manual. I love those vehicles. They seem to be perfectly made for what I wanted.

After what you said about the DSG Transmissions I'm interested in looking more into them. My sister recently told me she needs a new car and I told her to get a TDI. She doesn't know how to drive stick and it would help if the transmission was reliable. Thanks
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Old November 4th, 2019, 20:03   #30
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In my eyes the only real downsides is the factory head unit system is the screen size and no car play. What else is this system lacking in? Both of those can be fixed with upgrading to the MIB 2 I think itís called system. Can be pricey though but people have done it.


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