Disposal of buy-backs

MichaelB

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2009
Location
SE Wisconsin
TDI
2014 Passat SE DSG
In many states it is not illegal for a purchaser to delete the emissions system. In some it is. Even if it were illegal nationwide, MichaelB, it would be unconvincing to me to try to locate an individual owner on a “continuum of wrongdoing” alongside a corporation that shipped somewhere approaching 750,000 vehicles to a market in violation of that country’s sovereign laws.

This is why the concept of government regulation exists, and is in my opinion more helpful than harmful. Those 750,000 vehicles releasing more than allowed is going to be a lot more pollution than the 500? or so deletes driving around the country.

I can live with the guy deleting his system (again, legal in my state), though I disagree with it personally. What I cannot do is accept a corporation systematically jiggering with their technology to BOTH violate our clean air laws AND leave me with the warranty repair bill. One shows contempt for the country, the second shows contempt for me, their customer.

We deserve the restitution, buybacks, and warranties we got.
Agreed!!!!!!!!!!!
State legal ok I get it. But regardless Federal supersedes and makes it illegal. My point is for all you guys that say well the whole thing should have been overlooked because of minimal effect you could use that argument for many other regulations that you personally don't like. Hell, the TDI club just keeps helping Rawteck and Buzzken produce illegal exhaust systems and feel good about it, and help Melone sell tunes that make it all work. Sweet eh?


Just bought the EGR & DPF ECO kit and Malone Stage 2. Should be here sometime tomorrow. I'll let you guys know how it goes. Pretty daaaaaaaaaaaaamn excited.
 
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Lightflyer1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
In many states it is not illegal for a purchaser to delete the emissions system. In some it is. Even if it were illegal nationwide, MichaelB, it would be unconvincing to me to try to locate an individual owner on a “continuum of wrongdoing” alongside a corporation that shipped somewhere approaching 750,000 vehicles to a market in violation of that country’s sovereign laws.

This is why the concept of government regulation exists, and is in my opinion more helpful than harmful. Those 750,000 vehicles releasing more than allowed is going to be a lot more pollution than the 500? or so deletes driving around the country.

I can live with the guy deleting his system (again, legal in my state), though I disagree with it personally. What I cannot do is accept a corporation systematically jiggering with their technology to BOTH violate our clean air laws AND leave me with the warranty repair bill. One shows contempt for the country, the second shows contempt for me, their customer.

We deserve the restitution, buybacks, and warranties we got.
It is against the law in all 50 states as well as federal regulations. Your state included.

https://publications.tnsosfiles.com/rules/1200/1200-03/1200-03-36.pdf

Just because they don't check or are lazy about it or cheat doesn't make it legal. Are you trying to be like VW?
 

Mythdoc

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2017
Location
Tennessee
TDI
2011 Touareg, 2015 Q5, 2015 Golf
It is against the law in all 50 states as well as federal regulations. Your state included.

https://publications.tnsosfiles.com/rules/1200/1200-03/1200-03-36.pdf

Just because they don't check or are lazy about it or cheat doesn't make it legal. Are you trying to be like VW?


Thanks for the correction. Not checking does not make it legal, you are correct of course. I still don’t put the violation of a system deleter in the same universe of fault as VW’s, for the reasons stated above.
 

Lightflyer1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
And the members of this forum who come here for advice on how to delete their emissions systems violate all the rest. They seem to get a friendly welcome and all the info they need to accomplice the task, they are just as guilty as VW. So many members here seem to feel that emission standards are of no importance no matter how little or large. Many have a justification when breaking the law when it suits them. Have a nice day with clean fresh air! Oh poor mistreated VW.
There are also many voices who say not to as well. Just try and separate out the cheat and lying from the actual emissions issue if you can possibly do that. No one that I have read supports VW cheating and lying. They do disagree with the magnitude the headlines have seemed to use to promote this story. The article linked to shows that even 40 times a minuscule number isn't that much, but still a violation. VW has been caught and punished so they are/have been paying the price. Also no article I have seen even mentions how low the other emissions are for the car.

You can go on believing it is as dirty as some old farmers decades old diesel tractor if you want to, but it isn't. It is still one of the cleanest cars that was ever available to date, assuming you aren't deleting everything or tuning it to make it less so.

I have had one of my previous cars deleted, but reverted it back. I have had several cars tuned as well. I won't do any of that to this car as it is already very nice and performs just fine for my commuting purposes. I personally thing the tuners should have to pass the same tests that OEM has to pass to put their tunes on the market. But that is just me and I don't try or want to influence anyone else.
 

Lightflyer1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
Thanks for the correction. Not checking does not make it legal, you are correct of course. I still don’t put the violation of a system deleter in the same universe of fault as VW’s, for the reasons stated above.
Maybe but you are still breaking the law/regulations and lying by omission. Just not on the same scale as VW, but the same act.
 

MichaelB

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2009
Location
SE Wisconsin
TDI
2014 Passat SE DSG
Maybe but you are still breaking the law/regulations and lying by omission. Just not on the same scale as VW, but the same act.
My earlier point......laws are made to be broken if you disagree with that law. A matter of scale? Try telling that to a cop! Try not paying your taxes because its a matter of scale and it's only you.
 

Lightflyer1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
My earlier point......laws are made to be broken if you disagree with that law. A matter of scale? Try telling that to a cop! Try not paying your taxes because its a matter of scale and it's only you.
Talk to Mythdoc. My point was only in relation to that post. I have no tune or delete, I pay my taxes and try to be a law abiding citizen.
 
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Mythdoc

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2017
Location
Tennessee
TDI
2011 Touareg, 2015 Q5, 2015 Golf
Maybe but you are still breaking the law/regulations and lying by omission. Just not on the same scale as VW, but the same act.


Scale is vital to me in assessing responsibility and culpability. Taking a pen home from the office vs embezzling millions from the stockholders, for example. YMMV.

That’s why TDIclub is a fascinating place. So many cases to think about. Lots of nuance. Remember the good ole days on the “flippers” thread, Lightflyer? LOL. We mostly agreed there.
 

MichaelB

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2009
Location
SE Wisconsin
TDI
2014 Passat SE DSG
Scale is vital to me in assessing responsibility and culpability. Taking a pen home from the office vs embezzling millions from the stockholders, for example. YMMV.
Ethics 101 white lie/black lie how do you choose. Show me the scale and I will forever know how to behave.
 

MichaelB

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2009
Location
SE Wisconsin
TDI
2014 Passat SE DSG
Talk to Mythdoc. My point was only in relation to that post. I have no tune or delete, I pay my taxes and try to be a law abiding citizen. The best way to avoid emissions regs is to own old cars which are exempt here in Texas. I have a few of those around. If they never came with any you don't have to worry about removing them.
Nice Car but has no relevance to members here and VW breaking the law.
 

Lightflyer1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
Scale is vital to me in assessing responsibility and culpability. Taking a pen home from the office vs embezzling millions from the stockholders, for example. YMMV.

That’s why TDIclub is a fascinating place. So many cases to think about. Lots of nuance. Remember the good ole days on the “flippers” thread, Lightflyer? LOL. We mostly agreed there.
But you don't seem to take "scale" into account when evaluating the minuscule amounts of emissions put out by these cars due to the cheat. Sure their lying and installing the cheat software on the cars was on a huge worldwide scale. But the actual emissions were really a non issue, even when the worldwide problem is considered in perspective.

I do remember Dieselgate and the flippers and glad that era is over. I am actually surprised anyone ever agrees with me on anything. I am considered somewhat of a dinosaur now days.
 

MichaelB

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2009
Location
SE Wisconsin
TDI
2014 Passat SE DSG
Then skip over, ignore or report me to the thread police. I will save you the trouble as it seems to bother you so much.
Did I say it bothered me? But why in a VW discussion about legal infractions do we need to see photos your old (beautiful) Ford?
 

Mythdoc

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2017
Location
Tennessee
TDI
2011 Touareg, 2015 Q5, 2015 Golf
But you don't seem to take "scale" into account when evaluating the minuscule amounts of emissions put out by these cars due to the cheat. Sure their lying and installing the cheat software on the cars was on a huge worldwide scale. But the actual emissions were really a non issue, even when the worldwide problem is considered in perspective.


As I keep trying to remind you, my friend, the cheat was not undertaken for the sake of the minuscule amount of scale of the extra emissions released, but for the HUGE amount of scale of cash they were going to save in warranty claims to owners by taking a little pressure off their emissions systems. They wanted the systems to last 3 years (in the case of VW’s) and 4 years (Audi’s) at which point they would charge the buyer. For example, an adblue pump repair, cost to owner, $900? Times 10,000 of the sold 80,000 Touaregs, Q7’s, and Cayennes, etc. And that’s just one component.

Remember the issue with the size of the adblue tank? They wanted it to last a full service interval. They knew it would cost thousands of sales if they couldn’t deliver that feature. But they convinced BMW and Benz to join them in capping the size of the tank anyway. It always comes down to cost, and the scale was huge.
 
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sloinker

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2015
Location
Casper, Wyoming
TDI
'15 Sportwagen '15 Golf Hatch
I imagine the bean counters will determine if a car is worth the costs to make compliant or crush it. Many of those cars have lots of miles on them and are crusher bound.
 
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Lightflyer1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
Sure wish people would stop posting giant a** pictures that blow the page margins out, making it difficult to read without scrolling back and forth all the time. Try posting a smaller picture with a link to the larger one in case someone actually needs to see something at the original high resolution. Really no reason for these to be this size. 800x600 would do just fine.
 

joshhol

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 5, 2017
Location
AP
TDI
2014 JSW TDI 6MT no sunroof, 1976 MBZ 300D & 1963 MBZ 220S; sold 2013 JSW TDI 6MT
Would VW store any of the cars that are going to be crushed? Do they filter them out at the point of buyback or collect them all and then decide?
 

Isaac-1

Active member
Joined
Jun 10, 2019
Location
SW Louisiana
TDI
2015 Golf Sportwagen TDI
I know I am new here (shopping for a TDI for my son), but it seems that some of the buy back cars (assuming based on carfax history, with title going back to VW a couple of years ago) showing up at VW dealerships lately have well over 50,000 miles on the odometer. This makes me wonder just how bad a given car has to be in order to go to the crusher.


On a side point does anyone know of those photos were taken recently? Any idea how many more potential good low mileage 2015 TDI's are in the supply chain.
 

hause

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Nov 12, 2011
Location
Charlotte (Noda), NC
TDI
MK4 Golf Tdi... all souped up also a MK7 Sportwagen on its way to greatness
If one went to a boneyard but was on good shape, other than mileage, is there anything keeping them from putting it back on the road?

I assume they were salvage titles.

What a shame to crush so much useable stuff, in the name of the environment.

If governments really have a **** about the environment, they would have allowed these cars to remain in service and just cranked up the fines on VW a little more.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Buybacks have been selling through wholesale auctions since the Summer of 2017. They started with 2015 2.0L because they were approved first. Followed by earlier model CR engines in early 2018. Followed by 3.0L sometime in the fall of 2018.

Peak sales were around Dec 18 to Feb 19. They were selling cars for as low as $2500. Volkswagen figured out around March 1st of 2019 that "fixing" and warranty work would cost them more than this so they set a floor of $4k and anything that brings less than that gets crushed or goes to junkyard and gets a branded title (not suitable for road use). I am starting to see more and more salvage cars running through the block, most of these do bring over 4k wholesale, you guys will start seeing these available. I was buying around 6 tdi's a week earlier in the year but now so many "deep pocket" franchise dealers have caught on I'm buying much less. Not to mention the quality and volume of inventory has drastically decreased, less but still a lot of 3.0 though, just way fewer 2.0 L.
 

MBQ

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2012
Location
Houston, TX
TDI
2012 Golf TDI 4Dr DSG
Buybacks have been selling through wholesale auctions since the Summer of 2017. They started with 2015 2.0L because they were approved first. Followed by earlier model CR engines in early 2018. Followed by 3.0L sometime in the fall of 2018.
Peak sales were around Dec 18 to Feb 19. They were selling cars for as low as $2500. Volkswagen figured out around March 1st of 2019 that "fixing" and warranty work would cost them more than this so they set a floor of $4k and anything that brings less than that gets crushed or goes to junkyard and gets a branded title (not suitable for road use). I am starting to see more and more salvage cars running through the block, most of these do bring over 4k wholesale, you guys will start seeing these available. I was buying around 6 tdi's a week earlier in the year but now so many "deep pocket" franchise dealers have caught on I'm buying much less. Not to mention the quality and volume of inventory has drastically decreased, less but still a lot of 3.0 though, just way fewer 2.0 L.
What exactly went wrong with those car?
 

laxman21

Active member
Joined
Sep 13, 2014
Location
MD
TDI
2003 Jetta wagon
On a side point does anyone know of those photos were taken recently? Any idea how many more potential good low mileage 2015 TDI's are in the supply chain.
I took them a few days before I posted the pictures.
 
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