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General Automotive General automotive discussion. This is intended to be a discussion about other not VW and Diesel cars you may have or interested in.

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Old January 21st, 2019, 19:05   #1
turbobrick240
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Default Hybrid Hellcat??

I just came across this article reporting FCA may have plans to hybridize the Dodge Hellcat. I think it's cool, but wonder how the mainstream MOPAR guys will react to the loss of the big V8. Here's the article:

https://www.slashgear.com/dodge-chal...-car-21562924/
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Old January 29th, 2019, 16:18   #2
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Not only the gearheads, I wonder what the parties that are heavily invested in the fuel industry are thinking. I wonder if the changes toward electric powered drivetrains have any affect on keeping gas prices down to steer the public from buying electric vehicles in mass.
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Old January 29th, 2019, 20:09   #3
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While the fuel prices remain relatively low in the US any news related to the electrification and/or hybridization of passenger vehicles will be mostly anecdotal and not statistically significant growth on a normalized basis.
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Old January 29th, 2019, 21:52   #4
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I don't know, the growth in the segment (BEV/PHEV) is pretty phenomenal. When I see a hybrid Challenger Hellcat, that'll be a good indicator that the days of dino fueled autos are numbered.
https://www.electrive.com/2018/12/13...ise-worldwide/
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Old January 29th, 2019, 23:54   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tikal View Post
While the fuel prices remain relatively low in the US any news related to the electrification and/or hybridization of passenger vehicles will be mostly anecdotal and not statistically significant growth on a normalized basis.
I think that's part of the point... they're going electric for no other reason than the fact that performance is simply much better. Physics can take you a lot further with electric than with ICE.
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Old January 30th, 2019, 04:53   #6
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Agree, but economics plays a strong point also, which was the point of my comment. A lot of money floating around the fuel industry, I would think they will do what they can to keep their industry going for as long as they can.
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Old January 30th, 2019, 08:37   #7
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On a per capita basis growth, I can see Western Europe, South Korea, Japan, China, Singapore and some other parts of the world, minus the US, leading in the positive trend of electrification and/or hybridization of all types of passenger vehicles considering environmental laws (and other types of regulation), the laws of physic and the laws of each individual/family pocket book.

The inevitable cost-benefit analysis will most likely lead to the above scenario considering current trends in regional fuel prices.
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Old January 30th, 2019, 13:32   #8
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Well, we can be proud that an American automaker is leading the charge (hehe) to develop the future. Our current political miasma won't linger forever, and there will be further regulation here as well.
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Old January 30th, 2019, 13:38   #9
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The new (DT) Ram trucks have FCA's new eTorque mild hybrid system as standard equipment on the Pentastar V6 and optional on the V8, with the battery pack behind the rear seatbacks on those trucks. They've got a new turbo 4 cylinder with eTorque mild hybrid in the Wrangler. Every single one of those engines will bolt up to the ZF 8-speed transmission and fit in any of the LX platform cars, all they need to do is find a place for the battery pack somewhere.

I don't know if eTorque + supercharger is a compatible combination, but even if it's not ... the V6+automatic powertrain is the high-volume one in those cars, and the regular (non supercharged) Hemi+automatic is next highest, with the Hellcats being a pretty small part of the overall picture. And, the LX cars are due for an overhaul in the next couple of years. It appears that the overhaul will be a makeover and a round of weight-reduction on the current platform, as opposed to a complete redesign (e.g. to use the Alfa Giulio platform).

I would expect that overhaul to involve making room for that battery pack, and for the eTorque system to be on the high-volume powertrains (V6 and non-supercharged V8, maybe the new turbo 4 cylinder).

Further in the future, the ZF 8-speed is a modular design that allows a motor-generator to take the place of the torque converter and a clutch to completely engage or disengage the engine to take the place of the torque converter lock-up clutch.

Test report on a Jeep Wrangler with the turbo 4-cyl eTorque ... https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/fir...n-etorque.html
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Old January 31st, 2019, 05:56   #10
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Thanks Brian for your informative post regarding hybrid systems on trucks which I would think would be 'sell-able' in North America.

Going back to the OP, I would agree that, in the US, for specialized applications, for high end performance cars and for some trucks people would be willing to pay pretty much any price to go from 0 to 60 MPH in the least amount of time. If electrification gets you there (and indeed it will in a much less complex way than an ICE vehicle) then who cares if you paying $2 or $6 for a gallon of fuel. Right?

Last edited by tikal; January 31st, 2019 at 05:56. Reason: Accuracy
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Old January 31st, 2019, 06:54   #11
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Hybrids are a tough sell in the pickup market. GM found that out. The eTorque system is a lot simpler and it's being sold as a performance improvement...although CAFE is the real reason.
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Old January 31st, 2019, 07:02   #12
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The GM trucks were a glorified stop-start, they were not a real hybrid... it was kind of a joke actually. And the whole system was switched off if the A/C was turned on anyway. I went a training session on those, because a local fleet was preparing to buy a bunch of them and we had to service them. It was a complete fail. The only neat thing about them was the power outlet in the back, which (with the 4.8L V8 gasser.. the only engine available in them... running) allowed things like power tools to be operated.

They were all extended cab, because that was where the hid the lead acid batteries, just extra large marine type batteries, nothing special, under the rear seat. They were all short beds. They were all 2WD. They were all a higher trim level (no W/T or Cheyenne versions), and of course they were all V8 automatics.

They had an electric motor to run the PS pump, but no electric motor to run the A/C compressor. Now I am no expert, but it seems like if you were STOPPED in traffic, you'd want the A/C to continue to work and wouldn't care about the PS. GM evidently thought otherwise. No starter or alternator, that was done via a ring shaped armature in the bellhouse, next to the torque converter. They had an electric ATF pump in the otherwise unmodified 4L60E slushbox, so that there was no hydraulic delay if the engine needed to restart to get the truck moving again.

Oh, and these things were like 10 grand more than a regular Silverado with the same cab/box/eng/trans/drive/trim configuration. Fail on so many levels.

I think they may have added a 4WD version right before they axed the whole program.
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Old February 5th, 2019, 05:40   #13
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Hm, I'd assumed the trucks had the same setup as the Tahoe from back in the day. Those could drive themselves a little bit on electrons. They had the 6.0 V8, that could also run as a 3.0 4.

I saw a video of someone trying to get one of those early hybrids working after a minor fender bender... the SRS system detected the bump and set codes all over the place, and the GM scan tool didn't seem to have an auto-scan feature so finding all the "crashed detected" codes and clearing them was a pain.

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Old February 5th, 2019, 08:24   #14
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Nope, the SUVs hybrid system is different. And the cylinder deactivation is on all the truck V8s and V6s now, aside from some HD stuff. It bleeds oil pressure off to some of the hydraulic lifters, and is a constant headache. There is essentially a valve body under the intake that gets gunked up.

They also have a cam-within-a-cam system, another lame attempt that suffers from gunked up passages. Even some of the very last of the 60 degree car V6s had that.
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Old February 6th, 2019, 06:23   #15
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If electrification and/or hybridization of an American 'brute-force' muscle car is a sign of things to come in the mainstream automotive world for the US then, why not?
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