Got the fix and now have P2457

Teamzarz

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Feb 17, 2018
Location
FloriDUHH
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2009 JSW
I'm not sure if it is or not. It may be that certain monitors in the ECU have changed and previous to the fix the ECU wasn't seeing an almost clogged heater core as clogged enough to warrant a CEL.

It could also be that since the heater core is next in line after the EGR cooler and the car is doing more regen cycles to heat up the cat and clear the DPF the EGR is seeing much more heat than normal. This hotter than normal coolant now reacts more aggressively with the solder flux in the core causing the coolant to go more acidic which reacts with the aluminum components making a scaly sludgy mess that builds up in the heater core and can't escape effectively plugging the core.

The above should be taken with a grain of salt although a similar core in the passat had this issue for which they issued a TSB and covered a load of replacements under an extended heater core warranty.
 

spayne

New member
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Dec 7, 2017
Location
Houston Texas
TDI
2009 Jetta Sedan TDI, Manual
Hey Teamzarz, call vwoa again and raise hell. The rationale that my service guys said to me was "the core was not clogged before the fix and now it is so we are going to fix it". But that wasn't their feelings before I called vwoa and raised hell.
Then soon after the heater core fix, the egr cooler clogged too and they took care of it also.
 

Teamzarz

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Joined
Feb 17, 2018
Location
FloriDUHH
TDI
2009 JSW
Car at 125k in late 2014 the seat warmer passenger side tried to burn off my wife's butt and filled the car with burning foam fumes while our 5 month old son was in the car. Called VW and raised hell. They covered the seat replacement and gave me a loaner Tiguan for 51 days while they fixed it. total cost $5300. I paid nothing. This was pre-scandal.

Took it in for the fix had that manifold issue. Raised hell with VW. They covered it so I could get my fix done. $950, I paid nothing.

Now this stupid thing with the heater core, was prepared to just do it myself. Was going to let VW slide on this one. Till the dealer tried to gouge me for the diagnostic fee after I told them what I thought it was anyway. Then told me somehow that a 70 dollar heater core plus 1.5 hours labor would be 600 dollars to fix. Labor rates at Florida VW dealerships must be on par with Bentley or something.... Called VW on Saturday and raised hell yet again. I'll keep you posted.
 

Teamzarz

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Joined
Feb 17, 2018
Location
FloriDUHH
TDI
2009 JSW
Just got the call from Fields. VW is covering the heater core!
Please people if you get the fix and you throw this code call VWoA customer care and ask for it to be covered.
 

Nurse Diesel

Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2017
Location
Florida
TDI
2014 Jetta Sportwagen 6-spd. MT
Okay, guys, I'm still sitting on the fence about getting my car fixed or just leaving it the way it is and hoping for the best down the road. The chatter seems to have died down from most of you--still happy with your "fixed" cars? Would you do it again?
 

forrest resto`s

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Jul 8, 2007
Location
athens ga.
TDI
2000 jetta tdi auto rc2 2013 passat tdi 2015 passat tdi auto 2011 jetta tdi nav. s'roof..man. dpf delete 1970 GTO JUDGE 520 HP
Okay, guys, I'm still sitting on the fence about getting my car fixed or just leaving it the way it is and hoping for the best down the road. The chatter seems to have died down from most of you--still happy with your "fixed" cars? Would you do it again?
Hey Kathy..from what I read most of the feedback has been positive..with me being one of them...like most have said here..getting the 'EXTENDED WARRANTY AND QUITE A CASH BONUS" HAS LEFT ALOT OF PEOPLE HERE VERY HAPPY.. KEEP IN MIND..if something goes wrong with your car (that would be under the extended warranty) you will have to pay out of your pocket without it.. and there are quite a few things that may go bad eventually.. e.g. fuel pump..egr filter..dpf.. heater core..the lists goes on...and it's VERY expensive to have any of these repaired by a dealer!.It's very comforting for me as others having this warranty! also if you want to you can take some of the cash and get a "tune on your car" (likely invalidating warranty though) and really get the power back and then some and also get better mpg's before you got the fix!..and still have a bunch of money left over to fill your closet with new shoes and clothes!:D
 

jbright

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
Location
Indianapolis
TDI
2009 Jetta DSG
I got a check engine light driving home from work last night. I dropped it off at the dealership today and just got a call. It's the heater core. Again. Right after I had the fix done in September the heater core had to be replaced, on my dime. This time it's covered under the extended warranty. I reminded the service rep this was likely caused by the fix itself and he said that was a good possibility.
 

forrest resto`s

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Joined
Jul 8, 2007
Location
athens ga.
TDI
2000 jetta tdi auto rc2 2013 passat tdi 2015 passat tdi auto 2011 jetta tdi nav. s'roof..man. dpf delete 1970 GTO JUDGE 520 HP
Soo your saying that the heater core you had replaced just 9-10 months ago is now bad again?? Are you certain that they "actually" replaced it the first time?? and not just flushed it or similar? Sounds fishy..what did they charge you to "replace" it the first time?
 

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
TDI
2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
This may be a side effect of the "fix" coking the coolant with crazy high EGR duty cycle and the heater core is the weak link. But I wouldn't be surprised if the dealer tried to pull a fast one.
 

jbright

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
Location
Indianapolis
TDI
2009 Jetta DSG
Soo your saying that the heater core you had replaced just 9-10 months ago is now bad again?? Are you certain that they "actually" replaced it the first time?? and not just flushed it or similar? Sounds fishy..what did they charge you to "replace" it the first time?

Yes, the heater core was replaced just after having the 'fix' done in September. I have the receipt with all the parts numbers etc. ($1112.79) VW Customer Care gave me the runaround when I tried to get them to cover the cost, left the decision up to dealership, which refused, even though there was growing suspicion here (the TDI Club) that the fix stressed the heater core. I doubt this dealership, the largest in the state, faked the repair. I bought the car from them and have used them for all services since and have a good relationship with them. So this is the second heater core to fail, not even a year since installation. Funny thing is I complained several times to them this past winter about how inadequate the heat was. They checked the system and said it was working fine (it was not). I'm wondering how long this new hc will last. Also, there was no hesitation to pay for this one under warranty. I will be going in this afternoon and I'll find out more.
 

93celicaconv

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Wisconsin
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Turned in my 2010 Jetta TDI Cup Edition to VW, DSG, Nav, Sunroof / Replaced with a 2015 Passat TDI SEL Premium
Yes, the heater core was replaced just after having the 'fix' done in September. I have the receipt with all the parts numbers etc. ($1112.79) VW Customer Care gave me the runaround when I tried to get them to cover the cost, left the decision up to dealership, which refused, even though there was growing suspicion here (the TDI Club) that the fix stressed the heater core. I doubt this dealership, the largest in the state, faked the repair. I bought the car from them and have used them for all services since and have a good relationship with them. So this is the second heater core to fail, not even a year since installation. Funny thing is I complained several times to them this past winter about how inadequate the heat was. They checked the system and said it was working fine (it was not). I'm wondering how long this new hc will last. Also, there was no hesitation to pay for this one under warranty. I will be going in this afternoon and I'll find out more.
FWIW, somewhere in this forum there was a VW Service Bulletin on these 2010-2014 2.0L TDI models with heater core plugging, and the point of the service bulletin was to clear spell out the process associated with flushing the entire cooling system with the old heater core remove and before the new one being installed, to ensure all other aspects of the cooling system had the residual assembly flux (used to join aluminum cores to tanks) and corrosion debris (aluminum oxide caused by the flux decaying the coolant corrosion inhibitors much quicker than the normal 2-3 year coolant change duty cycle) to avoid the potential of a repeat heater core plugging issue and another heater core replacement.


I say this because it may be possible the dealership did change your heater core, but didn't follow the VW service bulletin, so your system still had debris in it the quickly clogged your new core. Not saying this is certainly what happened, but I can see this possibility fitting your situation.
 

forrest resto`s

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Joined
Jul 8, 2007
Location
athens ga.
TDI
2000 jetta tdi auto rc2 2013 passat tdi 2015 passat tdi auto 2011 jetta tdi nav. s'roof..man. dpf delete 1970 GTO JUDGE 520 HP
FWIW, somewhere in this forum there was a VW Service Bulletin on these 2010-2014 2.0L TDI models with heater core plugging, and the point of the service bulletin was to clear spell out the process associated with flushing the entire cooling system with the old heater core remove and before the new one being installed, to ensure all other aspects of the cooling system had the residual assembly flux (used to join aluminum cores to tanks) and corrosion debris (aluminum oxide caused by the flux decaying the coolant corrosion inhibitors much quicker than the normal 2-3 year coolant change duty cycle) to avoid the potential of a repeat heater core plugging issue and another heater core replacement.


I say this because it may be possible the dealership did change your heater core, but didn't follow the VW service bulletin, so your system still had debris in it the quickly clogged your new core. Not saying this is certainly what happened, but I can see this possibility fitting your situation.
That makes alot of sense!..very good info..for others to pursue when replacing the h.c...
 

jbright

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
Location
Indianapolis
TDI
2009 Jetta DSG
I got the car back. This time no charge for a new heatercore. It sounds like they knew about the Service Bulletin concerning corrosion debris. He said they did complete flush before installation. I hope this one lasts longer than 10 months. Car drives great. I'm still glad I didn't do the buy back. I had a brand new Jetta as a loaner. I liked it well enough, but the interior felt cheap compared to mine. It did get 40 mpg on my freeway commute to work.
 
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Teamzarz

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Joined
Feb 17, 2018
Location
FloriDUHH
TDI
2009 JSW
They had my car for 2 months while they fixed the heater core AND ripped out the entire dash to replace all coolant hoses through the firewall that were apparently the real cause of the issue. If anyone is still having issues with a replaced heater core chances are the pipes connecting it through the firewall need to be replaced as well.
 

zoomdiesel

Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Location
Philadelphia
TDI
2009 Jetta, 2012 Wagon
My 2009 post fix TDI threw the P2457 code and the dealer first asked me to sign for a diag charge but then waived it and replaced the heater core under warranty. They're holding up their end in my case.
 

littlefoot09

Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2013
Location
Kingsland, GA
TDI
2014 PASSAT SE 6MT
I had the fix accomplished last august. Heater core was blocked before the fix. Had the fix accomplished by VW and the heater core replaced by my local shop. Threw the P2457 code after the fix and heater core replacement. Still had very little heat in the car. Fought and fought with VW and they finally replaced the EGR cooler under warranty. The car is still eating coolant and I can hear fluid running through the dash or heater core.....Going back tomorrow for another diagnostic.
 

93celicaconv

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May 22, 2013
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Wisconsin
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Turned in my 2010 Jetta TDI Cup Edition to VW, DSG, Nav, Sunroof / Replaced with a 2015 Passat TDI SEL Premium
I had the fix accomplished last august. Heater core was blocked before the fix. Had the fix accomplished by VW and the heater core replaced by my local shop. Threw the P2457 code after the fix and heater core replacement. Still had very little heat in the car. Fought and fought with VW and they finally replaced the EGR cooler under warranty. The car is still eating coolant and I can hear fluid running through the dash or heater core.....Going back tomorrow for another diagnostic.
What do you mean, exactly, by "The car is still eating coolant?"

Did your local shop provide you a new heater core, or did they attempt to flush the old heater core?

Cooling system clogging in these years of TDI's happened because of a manufacturing defect of the heater core, were joining flux was not properly removed, causing the residual flux to react with the coolant and turn it from a slightly basic solution to an acidic solution - and the process or neutralizing the coolant involves multiple system flushes to rid the system of any remaining flux residue. Anything less usually results in continued core clogging. Your dealer shop would have known this. Why did you take it to a local shop for repair? I believe VW was providing some kind of customer satisfaction reimbursement when the clogging event happens (not sure if the total cost was absorbed by VW, or part of it, but at least part of it was and the process to remedy (if done properly) would resolve future occurrences).
 

littlefoot09

Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2013
Location
Kingsland, GA
TDI
2014 PASSAT SE 6MT
93celicaconv, the heater core was blocked before the fix. The A/C was intermittent at the time and I was getting a low coolant light occasionally. They told me 1100 for the heater core, 1800 for the A/C, 1400 for the radiator and that my turbo was on the way out and that was another 2800. And they happily told me I could use my restitution money for the repairs. I wanted a second opinion. I also had an occasional CEL for a cracked DPF. When I dropped it off I had no codes and they said they would do the fix. So, had the fix accomplished and then had my local shop that is only 10 miles from me give me a second opinion and do the remaining work.

The local shop originally said the radiator was good and that the turbo sounded normal. Two weeks later they were replacing the radiator on their dime. They showed me the old heater core with the top cut off full of sludge when I went to pick it up. Still no issues with the turbo and by the extended warranty I believe it is covered for the additional 40,000 miles.

Once the local shop got the car back running, still no heat in the car, I threw a CEL for the glow plug control module.

VW wanted me to pay for the replacement originally. They had marked on the hood sticker that it had been replaced and told me it wasn't covered. They finally replaced it and it didn't cost me anything. About a week later I threw a CEL for the EGR insufficient flow and somehow convinced them to replace the EGR cooler. After it had been back to the local shop and back to VW multiple times each one blaming eeach others work. Once the EGR cooler was replaced I've had heat ever since.

Before the EGR cooler was replaced though I had a weird popping noise in the dash/heater core area. Since the EGR cooler has been replaced I have had the constant sound of fluid running through the dash. VW has replaced the heater hoses twice and claim they have flushed the system multiple times and still cannot get the flowing noise to stop. Their last report said the following

"Audible sound of coolant running through heater after cold start. Found slight dried coolant residue on heater hose coming from EGR cooler. EGR cooler and heater core previously replaced. Replaced damaged hoses and pressure tested, vacuum filled cooling system. Noise eliminated when engine warm, A/C and heater working fine. Solid debris still left in coolant system from previous contamination with incorrect coolant or oil. Possible head gasket damage from previous overheating of engine. Possible debris still stuck in coolant lines running through firewall or in new heater core itself."

As far as the "eating coolant", I got a low coolant warning the other day. Added about 8 ounces of coolant and have been monitoring. With the engine cold I've toped off the coolant bottle with coolant. I drive 50 miles to work. Basically hear fluid running through the heater core the whole drive. After the car sits for 8 to 10 hours I'll check it before my ride home. The coolant is well below the full mark of a cold engine. Probably about 1/4 full. As I loosen the cap you can hear the pressure relieve and the coolant bubbles and fills up to about 4-6 ounces below the full mark. I top it off and head home. Same thing the next morning.

I had another VW dealership look at it at the recommendation of VW customer support and they told me it was normal and replaced the pollen filter. So, back to the VW shop that did the work and hopefully get it straightened out this time.......
 

Wildrabbit79

New member
Joined
Oct 11, 2018
Location
Canada
TDI
Golf Jetta Golf Sportwagen
I have multitude of problems after Phase 2 as well.
I would have never purchased this vehicle if it ran like it does now. VW could have never sold a vehicle with problems in the Phase 2.
Get in touch with the class action lawyers.
In your article that gave you options for a decision on the Phase 1 and Phase 2
read carefully, " The Phase 2 updates are expected to have no further impact on overall vehicle reliability, durability, fuel economy, engine sound, performance or driveability."
That quote from the agreement must be legally bound. I have three of those promises that are not given to me. Therefore the court will question what VW is going to do now that they are not giving the settlement aggreement that they are legally bound to administer to the customers.
 

flargabarg

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2005
TDI
2011 Touareg Lux TDI
How is a cooling system problem related to the fix? They are not connected systems. The closest they get is still separated unless you have a failed EGR cooler, which can be diagnosed and fixed.
 

93celicaconv

Veteran Member
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May 22, 2013
Location
Wisconsin
TDI
Turned in my 2010 Jetta TDI Cup Edition to VW, DSG, Nav, Sunroof / Replaced with a 2015 Passat TDI SEL Premium
How is a cooling system problem related to the fix? They are not connected systems. The closest they get is still separated unless you have a failed EGR cooler, which can be diagnosed and fixed.
Your post is a bit vague. If "the fix" means the emissions modification(s), the engine coolant takes heat away from the EGR cooler heat exchanger, so the "systems" are connected. Compromised coolant (which goes from slightly alkaline to acidic) corrodes that which the coolant contacts. So contaminated coolant or a coolant that is worn down due to time (lost its ability to maintain a slightly alkaline pH level) affects all that it contacts, especially the heat exchangers. So I see a heavy relationship here.
 

flargabarg

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Jul 31, 2005
TDI
2011 Touareg Lux TDI
If the coolant system is sealed the coolant does not use up the additive package very quickly, and if something compromised that seal it needs to be corrected and the system replaced with fresh coolant. This is not going to happen so quickly because of extra heat in the EGR system. It requires an unrelated mechanical fault. This is like blaming the emissions modification for your battery needing earlier replacement due to extra heat in the engine compartment. You might be able to find a connection but it is tenuous at best.
 

93celicaconv

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Wisconsin
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Turned in my 2010 Jetta TDI Cup Edition to VW, DSG, Nav, Sunroof / Replaced with a 2015 Passat TDI SEL Premium
If the coolant system is sealed the coolant does not use up the additive package very quickly, and if something compromised that seal it needs to be corrected and the system replaced with fresh coolant. This is not going to happen so quickly because of extra heat in the EGR system. It requires an unrelated mechanical fault. This is like blaming the emissions modification for your battery needing earlier replacement due to extra heat in the engine compartment. You might be able to find a connection but it is tenuous at best.
In the 2009 on up VW world, your assumption "If the coolant system is sealed the coolant does not use up the additive package very quickly" is not correct. Many threads on this site that talk about residual flux used in the manufacturing process to seal heat exchanger cores not being properly flushed out - the residual flux reacts with the coolant over a relatively short period of time to cause the coolant to go acidic, and that is when the corrosion issue starts. VW has a TSB on this issue with when the situation gets bad enough to cause problems with heater cores. TDI's exasperate this issue by having added heat load on the coolant due to EGR cooling requirements (at least I think this to be the case). Your best bet is to get coolant pH test strips and periodically test the coolant pH. My 2015 TDI back in 2017, with only 11k miles on it then, I tested for coolant pH and it was neutral then (indicating the additive package to keep the coolant slightly alkaline was gone). So it went in for a coolant flush are refill service. I had the VW service center do it twice because of this known problem (in an effort to get most of the remaining flux out), but will be checking pH quarterly to keep monitoring it.
 

flargabarg

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Jul 31, 2005
TDI
2011 Touareg Lux TDI
That is absurd. My last TDI, you changed the coolant when you did the timing belt and water pump, and did not worry about it. This seems like a substantial design fault. Coolant is a solved problem for a lot of brands, including older VWs.
 

93celicaconv

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Turned in my 2010 Jetta TDI Cup Edition to VW, DSG, Nav, Sunroof / Replaced with a 2015 Passat TDI SEL Premium

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
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2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
That is absurd. My last TDI, you changed the coolant when you did the timing belt and water pump, and did not worry about it. This seems like a substantial design fault. Coolant is a solved problem for a lot of brands, including older VWs.

Your last TDI was a Gen 1 with the EPA fix? Comparing an ALH or BEW with a CR TDI is a huge stretch.

Gen2 and Gen3 cars have coolant constantly seeing 230-250F cruising on the highway with the water to air IC (even with outside temps being 45F), I monitored our '15 last time I had a 100 mile road trip for work.

IMO coolant flushes need to be more done at 80K, sadly they aren't the easiest to perform.

The use and abuse the coolant sees only is exacerbated with the EPA fix on these Gen 1 cars. This thread shows tons of people that had quasi working heater cores and then fail once having the EPA fix most before their first TB job.
 

SoCalC

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2004
I’m going to assist a friend with a 13 Passat deal with this. What I think is his original coolant, which needed to be changed anyway got hammered by heat loading and possibly related chem reactions mentioned in this thread. Coolant in degas ended up looking ‘dirty’ and smelled ‘smokey’. It was changed but the cause was not fixed by a mechanic who isn’t familiar and doesn’t know what’s up.

Question.. the new heat loading of the coolant and heat exchanger chemistry isn’t likely to go away wit the emissions ‘fixes’, are the current brand new replacements the same parts of have they been modified to work in this new environment? I’m pretty sure I know the answer but thought I’d throw it out there.

2. Any of you VW test dummies that like to test monitoring coolant ph on a new load of coolant with or without new heat exchangers with the new egr file(s) running?

Forgot to mention he had the ‘fix’ done about three weeks ago and since then the egr cooling code many have mentioned in this thread has continued from prior to the fix but the coolant has visually and smell wise gone to hell in a handbasket very closely aligned with the fix. One of his engine cooling fans has also started running while the engine is cold right after cold start and stays on. I think this issue may be a coincidence but could well be at least indirectly related to new coolant heating factors caused by the new tune.
 
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