TDI Phase 2

Funguy said:

That's good news. Just scheduled my Phase II for June 15th. Phase 3???

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Sorry, that was a typo, no Phase 3.

Got the Phase 2 on my 2015 Golf TDI with 30k on it last week.
My fuel mileage improved from 44 to 45.9 mpg.
I think they changed the CAT which may be the improved mileage....we'll see if it holds up.

Sounds good pdh. Did they change the oil and fill the tank? I have seen both of these items promised in VW paperwork last year but I wonder if they are keeping these promises? My Passat is going to be done in a couple of days

pdh said:

Got the Phase 2 on my 2015 Golf TDI with 30k on it last week.
My fuel mileage improved from 44 to 45.9 mpg.
I think they changed the CAT which may be the improved mileage....we'll see if it holds up.

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Other than the fuel mileage, do you notice any difference in sound? Feel? Performance?

Yes, the oil was changed but I was charged for the 30K service.
I think the performance improved, especially in "Drive". I've noticed no difference in sound.
So far, my "gut" feels the car is more responsive which I felt leaving the dealership after getting the "fix".

pdh said:

Yes, the oil was changed but I was charged for the 30K service.
I think the performance improved, especially in "Drive". I've noticed no difference in sound.
So far, my "gut" feels the car is more responsive which I felt leaving the dealership after getting the "fix".

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Awesome. Thanks for sharing. Just got mail from VW Canada advising that Phase 2 is available.

dwu.048 said:

Awesome. Thanks for sharing. Just got mail from VW Canada advising that Phase 2 is available.

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Expect a runaround if you have a stop sale vehicle. The dealer told me to call booking to set-up an appointment because I needed a claim number. Because I do not have a claim number "booking" advised me to register on the portal. I ended up talking to someone at ricepoint at some point, where I was informed that due to my VIN # and date of purchase (June 2017) I am entitled to a $1750 payday.

Kept getting an error code when entering my VIN # on the portal so called the 888 number with the error code number where I was informed that due to my vehicle being a stop sale car I am not included in the settlement therefore cannot register to receive a "claim number"! Getting dizzy after 2 hours of spinning around.

Called and emailed the dealer yesterday about this but have not heard back yet.

EDIT...Got the call from the dealer, appointment is set. Colour me surprised.

Ronner said:

Expect a runaround if you have a stop sale vehicle. The dealer told me to call booking to set-up an appointment because I needed a claim number. Because I do not have a claim number "booking" advised me to register on the portal. I ended up talking to someone at ricepoint at some point, where I was informed that due to my VIN # and date of purchase (June 2017) I am entitled to a $1750 payday.

Kept getting an error code when entering my VIN # on the portal so called the 888 number with the error code number where I was informed that due to my vehicle being a stop sale car I am not included in the settlement therefore cannot register to receive a "claim number"! Getting dizzy after 2 hours of spinning around.

Called and emailed the dealer yesterday about this but have not heard back yet.

EDIT...Got the call from the dealer, appointment is set. Colour me surprised.

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but the real question is, do you still get paid? [emoji854]

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Mrrogers1 said:

I need to go in for nozzle and I already told them i DO NOT want the phase 2 done.

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Are you an original owner? If so why would you give up the money?

Geist296 said:

Are you an original owner? If so why would you give up the money?

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Furthermore, does anyone really have that option? I thought (though admit I could be mistaken) that it was an EPA requirement, and if not completed, the owner would be in violation of some EPA regulation. ??

But to the original question, I just had Phase II done a couple of weeks back, and frankly have noticed no real change in performance or fuel efficiency. But the real test will be this weekend when I go on a thousand mile trip through a mix of mountains and flatlands (well, *relatively* flat....).

But so far, I'm on my first full fill-up since PH II, and dash display is showing around 49 (mix of town/highway), so that's realistically probably closer to 45-46.

FWIW, YMMV, yadda yadda....

"If your vehicle has accumulated fewer than 64,000 km (for automatic transmissions) or 112,000 km (for manual transmissions) at the time of the Phase 2 update, we will not replace the Diesel Particulate Filter, Diesel Oxydation Catalyst or Selective Catalytic Reduction Converter in your vehicle at that time and we request that you return at a future date for its replacements once your vehicle has accumulated at least 112,000 km. You will have the aforementioned hardware installed at that time".


Can anyone tell me why I should go in now, if I have to go back anyway, rather than just wait?

Thanks,

Mrrogers1 said:

but the real question is, do you still get paid? [emoji854]

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

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I'd be surprised if there is a payment in this scenario. I believe if you bought a stop-sell car (built new in 2015 but not sold until 2017) then you would not be eligible for any $$ since it was "fixed" before they released it for sale.

360gtracer said:

Furthermore, does anyone really have that option? I thought (though admit I could be mistaken) that it was an EPA requirement, and if not completed, the owner would be in violation of some EPA regulation. ??

But to the original question, I just had Phase II done a couple of weeks back, and frankly have noticed no real change in performance or fuel efficiency. But the real test will be this weekend when I go on a thousand mile trip through a mix of mountains and flatlands (well, *relatively* flat....).

But so far, I'm on my first full fill-up since PH II, and dash display is showing around 49 (mix of town/highway), so that's realistically probably closer to 45-46.

FWIW, YMMV, yadda yadda....

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I agree with your statement on it not an option, I am pretty sure what will end up happening is if you didn't get it done the state you live in will be told and the next time you go to renew your plates they will turn you down.

I am with you on phase 2 had mine done the end of May, my mileage has gone up a consistent 2-4 a gallon. I will be making a trip to Nashville and back to the Chicago area early july, but with the amount I drive to gigs I am averaging in the area of 48-52 and that is hand calculated.

mheat said:

"If your vehicle has accumulated fewer than 64,000 km (for automatic transmissions) or 112,000 km (for manual transmissions) at the time of the Phase 2 update, we will not replace the Diesel Particulate Filter, Diesel Oxydation Catalyst or Selective Catalytic Reduction Converter in your vehicle at that time and we request that you return at a future date for its replacements once your vehicle has accumulated at least 112,000 km. You will have the aforementioned hardware installed at that time".


Can anyone tell me why I should go in now, if I have to go back anyway, rather than just wait?

Thanks,

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I was going to go before my 40k miles, rack up mileage on old hardware. Get new hardware. Delete new hardware. Tune. Sell oem hardware to pay percentage of tune/delete.


But that's my weasel idea. My state does not do registration inspections, and modified vehicles sell easily here as well.

I also cashed in old faithful that paid 55% of this new 2015 car loan, then tripled my monthly remaining payments . It's now paid off within 8 months of signing.

So, I'm sitting quite well to make a move like that without worry.

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Geist296 said:

Are you an original owner? If so why would you give up the money?

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I am BUT it's a stop-sale car so I don't think I'll be getting any money, that's why I was curious to know if the guy up above was actually going to get that money they "said" he was entitled to.

gqboy said:

I'd be surprised if there is a payment in this scenario. I believe if you bought a stop-sell car (built new in 2015 but not sold until 2017) then you would not be eligible for any $$ since it was "fixed" before they released it for sale.

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Yeah, I don't think so either but curious to see what the guy above finds out after they told him he was getting paid.

jason_ said:

I was going to go before my 40k miles, rack up mileage on old hardware. Get new hardware. Delete new hardware. Tune. Sell oem hardware to pay percentage of tune/delete.


But that's my weasel idea. My state does not do registration inspections, and modified vehicles sell easily here as well.

I also cashed in old faithful that paid 55% of this new 2015 car loan, then tripled my monthly remaining payments . It's now paid off within 8 months of signing.

So, I'm sitting quite well to make a move like that without worry.

Sent from my 2PS64 using Tapatalk

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I'm going to keep driving and just do it before the end of the allowed time/mileage. I have no problems with economy with everything intact so not rushing to take it off OR to get new stuff only to have to go back for DPF later.

360gtracer said:

Furthermore, does anyone really have that option? I thought (though admit I could be mistaken) that it was an EPA requirement, and if not completed, the owner would be in violation of some EPA regulation. ??

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If your state took money from VW then you absolutely have an option. Unless you live in one of the few states that refused a payout from VW, then you can choose to do nothing and keep driving your unfixed car. They CAN NOT stop you from registering your car or penalize you in any way for not doing the fix. This is all laid out in the settlement documents.

Mrrogers1 said:

but the real question is, do you still get paid? [emoji854]

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

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Not included in the settlement
Cannot get a claim number

Equals no money for me Mrrogers.

Ronner said:

Not included in the settlement
Cannot get a claim number
Equals no money for me Mrrogers.

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Oh well, certainly was worth a shot. :-D

kjclow said:

Doesn't the extended warranty reset with phase 2? That might be a reason to wait.

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Got my letter from VW inviting me for the Stage 2 fix a few weeks ago. Mine is 2015, was fixed before sale, I bought it "new" in 2017. The warantee is 11 years from sale date (when you bought it originally), or 160k miles... so no benefit from waiting unless you are on the fence and witing to assess others experience. This is my interpretation.

In it, the letter states clearly that the warantee is until 11 years OR 160,000.
Included:
-Entire Exhaust system including the new DPF, Catalyst, DEF injection system, the exhaust flap, sensors and actuators
-Entire Fuel system: FUEL PUMPS! HP rail system, injectors, PCV, sensor and actuators
-EGR system (all)
-The TURBOCHARGER
-long block warantee including crankshaft, cylinder head, camshaft, valve train

That is a nice warantee extension.

dubStrom said:

Got my letter from VW inviting me for the Stage 2 fix a few weeks ago. Mine is 2015, was fixed before sale, I bought it "new" in 2017. The warantee is 11 years from sale date (when you bought it originally), or 160k miles... so no benefit from waiting unless you are on the fence and witing to assess others experience. This is my interpretation.

In it, the letter states clearly that the warantee is until 11 years OR 160,000.
Included:
-Entire Exhaust system including the new DPF, Catalyst, DEF injection system, the exhaust flap, sensors and actuators
-Entire Fuel system: FUEL PUMPS! HP rail system, injectors, PCV, sensor and actuators
-EGR system (all)
-The TURBOCHARGER
-long block warantee including crankshaft, cylinder head, camshaft, valve train

That is a nice warantee extension.

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You also get a 5 year, 60K mi extension after completion of Phase 2 (or the 11 years, 162K, whichever is longest). So you could hypothetically wait until 161,999 miles or 10 years and 364 days to go in for your Phase 2 fix and extend your warranty to 15 years 364 days or 221,999 miles, but nobody knows if VW will still be honoring the fix at that point in the future. There's also the point about what defines completion of the Phase 2 fix for those who have less than 40K mi (DSG) or 70K mi (manual) who only get the 2A now and then have to come back after 70k miles for their 2B fix. Would the extension be added to the time and mileage of the 2A fix or the 2B fix. VW doesn't address any of that in the letter.

Blue_Hen_TDI said:

You also get a 5 year, 60K mi extension after completion of Phase 2 (or the 11 years, 162K, whichever is longest). So you could hypothetically wait until 161,999 miles or 10 years and 364 days to go in for your Phase 2 fix and extend your warranty to 15 years 364 days or 221,999 miles, but nobody knows if VW will still be honoring the fix at that point in the future. There's also the point about what defines completion of the Phase 2 fix for those who have less than 40K mi (DSG) or 70K mi (manual) who only get the 2A now and then have to come back after 70k miles for their 2B fix. Would the extension be added to the time and mileage of the 2A fix or the 2B fix. VW doesn't address any of that in the letter.

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I did not see that additional 5yr or 60k extension in the letter, or that it wouldextend the existing 160k, 11year warantee. Somehow, I am skeptical that it would. Where did you get that info??

If they do NOT stack the additional 5 years or 60k on top of the 160/11 (but rather re-establish a new 5yr/60k warantee), the only way to extend past the existing 11yr/160K warantee would be to wait until after 6 years or 100k miles on the stage 1 fix before I go in for the Stage 2 fix. I might get to 100k in 5 years, and the end of sixth year in my possession would be in about 4.5 years. But that would only begin to extend it after 6yrs or 100k at that point. I really doubt that it is stacked on top of the 11yr/160k warantee. Really??

So will the Stage 2 fix be offered past 5 years into the future is the question. I do not know if your interpretation of the extension is correct... beyond, and stacked on top of the 160k, 11 year warantee agreed to with the EPA settlement.

dubStrom said:

I do not know if your interpretation of the extension is correct... beyond, and stacked on top of the 160k, 11 year warantee agreed to with the EPA settlement.

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It is. See pg 12 of pdf (pg 9 of document). Couldn’t be any clearer. LONGER of 11 years/162k mi or 5 yr/60k after completion of Phase 2.

https://www.vwcourtsettlement.com/wp-content/uploads/documents/emissions/Gen3_Emissions_Modification_Disclosure_Volkswagen.pdf

This warranty book was given to all owners at time of Phase 1 fix and/or new old-stock purchase.

Blue_Hen_TDI said:

It is. See pg 12 of pdf (pg 9 of document). Couldn’t be any clearer. LONGER of 11 years/162k mi or 5 yr/60k after completion of Phase 2.

https://www.vwcourtsettlement.com/wp-content/uploads/documents/emissions/Gen3_Emissions_Modification_Disclosure_Volkswagen.pdf

This warranty book was given to all owners at time of Phase 1 fix and/or new old-stock purchase.

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I see, but my point was just that it doesn't stack up, just extends the warantee. So you have 100,001 miles on your car and 6 years and one day into the existing warantee), your warantee will be extended by one day, and one mile.

I have nearly 5 years or 85,000 miles to go before I can get my warantee extended by one day and one mile when I have 100,001 miles on it, and one day more than 6 years into the existing warantee. And as you said, they would have to be able to do the stage 2 fix at that point or whenever you choose to do it, to get that additional time under warantee. I am sure that they will be required to, maybe? Unless there is a limit to how long you can drag your feet.

So I guess it makes sense to drag feet for a while just to get new exhaust components and all of the other new parts installed. But not because it won't be under warantee for at least 5 years of 60k miles, but because taking it in for warantee service is a pain in the neck anyway!

dubStrom said:

I see, but my point was just that it doesn't stack up, just extends the warantee. So you have 100,001 miles on your car and 6 years and one day into the existing warantee), your warantee will be extended by one day, and one mile.
I have nearly 5 years or 85,000 miles to go before I can get my warantee extended by one day and one mile when I have 100,001 miles on it, and one day more than 6 years into the existing warantee. And as you said, they would have to be able to do the stage 2 fix at that point or whenever you choose to do it, to get that additional time under warantee. I am sure that they will be required to, maybe? Unless there is a limit to how long you can drag your feet.
So I guess it makes sense to drag feet for a while just to get new exhaust components and all of the other new parts installed. But not because it won't be under warantee for at least 5 years of 60k miles, but because taking it in for warantee service is a pain in the neck anyway!

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In a thread devoted to this concern, I pointed out that after the penalty phase contingent upon VW's compliance with an 85%+ fixed rate there won't be any mechanism that would force them to offer the second phase fix any longer. Even if the fix is still available, I anticipate it will be difficult to the point of not particularly viable for a lot of people.

VW is already dragging its feet in regards to refuse previously branded titled cars, presumably to wait people out until they've crossed the 85% threshold via marketable buybacks. Like a reverse triage in order to minimize their economic losses.

VW is also tightening the buyback process of clean titled cars. Reports are coming in that appointments are both increasing in distance and being scheduled further away. Some dealerships are opting out now and the ones still doing them are using VW employees with live links back to Germany for specific approval.

All accounts for all kinds of titled vehicles are indicating that VW is "closing up shop." Whether they can do so entirely is a matter of debate, but the people arguing that they can extend their warranties in this way seem to believe that VW is obligated to maintain this offer to them indefinitely (within the warranty period).

I believe the interpretation of that warranty offer is they argue one can utilize the 5/60 for phase 1, then rely on the 11/162 as the longer of the two, and then switch back to the 5/60 for the remainder since that is now the longer of the two.

The main problem I have with that interpretation is that I don't believe VW will offer phase 2 for much longer than another year or two (but make you drive hundreds of miles or make you send the car to a central location in the middle of the country for a month while they wait for parts to come over from Germany--both would just make it a royal pain in the ass while technically abiding by the conditions they believe the settlement present).

The other problem I have is that the warranty language approximates an inverted standard warranty disclaimer. It comports to normal warranty expectations, but the consumer protections are extended via a lengthier interpretation of that otherwise standard agreement (and disclaimer). The customer is expected to *choose* one path or the other rather than leapfrogging from one warranty path to another. That choice, presumably, was expected to be made clear from the customer when phase 2 became available. That is, I expect that if you choose phase 2 and you drive beyond 5/60 you'll be considered out of warranty until you come in for phase 2.

fear monger

I also remember when people said there's no way VW could possibly offer a buyback of nearly 500K cars.

With that being said, I don't think many people will be able to "game" the system to milk an extended extended warranty.

stage 2 fix

It is a long list of parts added or replaced...new second NOx sensor, new DPF, Catalyst, Selective Cat Reduction Converter , the exhaust flap, and software. And most accounts imply increased or same fuel economy and performance, and ALL of the equipment is waranteed to 11years or 160k miles, and it improves NOx emission performance. COOL!!

This warantee covers WAY beyond OEM- non-TDI or TDI

yes, this maintains the extended warantee for a VERY long list of components, to 11 years or 160,000 miles:

full exhaust system, including filters, cat system, and DEF injection system!
THE ENTIRE FUEL SYSTEM, including the pumps (lift and HPFP!), fuel rail, AND injectors, etc
The EGR system
The turbo charger!

Yes. The HPFP AND turbo charger too. Wow. This is directly from the invitation letter for Stage 2 fix. It seems legit enough for me.

To game the system for more extended warantee beyond 160k, 11years, I would have to wait more than 5 years and/or drive to 160,000 miles. Not worth it to me. I'll take the 11yr/160k warantee at face value and motor on with confidence.

So what's the mileage/performance like after the Stage 2 fix?

gqboy said:

So what's the mileage/performance like after the Stage 2 fix?

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Sparse reports here, but I heard IMPROVED on the only one I found on this forum. I'll take that with a grain of salt

However, VW may have improved the exhaust components for better flow to save reputation (FE). ALSO, my exhaust is already 3 years old, and they replace clamps and add new stuff. That can't be bad. But I will run a tune, so I'll get better FE anyway, AND have more performance there if I want it.

Most importantly for me is NOx will be better controlled. Compliant.

I have kids and I'll be checking out within a couple of decades. It is my legacy too.

My in-town performance has noticeably improved. I don't know about mileage because I've had my foot buried in the floor

The dealer has had my Passat for a week now. They "finished" it today but it threw a code when they test drove it. So they ordered new sensors etc. I wonder if it is throwing the same weird code that it threw before Phase 1. They had no idea how to fix that code but then Phase 1 fixed it.......is Phase 2 going to "un-fix" it. Stay tuned......