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Old March 7th, 2018, 02:16   #1
blis
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Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Australia
Fuel Economy: 5L/100Km
Default Replacing the Turbo - Polo 5DR 2005/6 AXR 1.9TDI


It's a great car, had an issue similar to this in the past and cost a dandy 3k plus... so thought I'd get into it myself this time, so far so good.
Day 1)
Symptoms:
Son driving to work and began belching copious amounts of white smoke from exhaust. Loss of power, he pulled over and called a tow truck and brought it home.
Hypothesis: Seals gone in turbo??
Observations:
* Engine fires up, you can smell the oil burning even at cold idle.
* Unclipped intercooler and 300ml of oil gushed out over my arm
Getting dirty:
Grabbed an oil tray and drained another 300ml and mopped up
Looked up the forum, realised the best approach was from underneath and disconnected the Inner CV (Evil 12 point bolts, not my first VW CV rodeo and only had to use vice grips once to extract one stripped bolt. I'll replace them with hex and get myself a 12 point too)
Wife's birthday out for dinner...
Day 2)
* Disconnected Exhaust flange from Turbo
* Began disconnecting Exhaust manifold
* Disconnected hoses and ducts
* Disconnected heat shield
* Disconnected Oil Supply Support clamp
* Disconnected Intake Manifold
* Removed cooland supply to EGR?? return
* Removed Intake Manifold.
* Dismantled Intake manifold & peripherals
* Soaking Intake manifold
* Cleaned Throttle body, EGR valve and manfold
* Scrub human of excess carbon deposits... What a messy job!
* Clean up nuts and bolts and organise.
Pics can be found here...
http://framepoet.org/mk5-polo-1-9-td...al-and-repair/
NOTE: Two of the HEX bolts on the EGR cooler/manifold were "super tight"
Glad I did this on the bench, had to resort to vice grips and I do have good hex tools.
Turbo Type: BV39A-0019
Engine Type: AXR 1.9 TDI PS100 74kw

Last edited by blis; April 11th, 2018 at 08:41.
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Old March 7th, 2018, 04:16   #2
Tdijarhead
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Ahh, the view from “down under “. Pun intended. Been right there about 6 months ago. It sounds like you have the whole thing under control. Just a couple of observations/reminders.

It’s probably a good idea to pull the glow plugs when you get it all back together and just before you restart it, to blow any oil that may have drained down out of the intake into the cylinders. Especially the #2 & 3 cylinders.

Don’t forget to tighten all the egr bolts back up. Those little metal gaskets make quite a noise if you forget to tighten them down. Good luck.
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Old March 7th, 2018, 04:28   #3
blis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tdijarhead View Post
Ahh, the view from “down under “. Pun intended. Been right there about 6 months ago. It sounds like you have the whole thing under control. Just a couple of observations/reminders.

It’s probably a good idea to pull the glow plugs when you get it all back together and just before you restart it, to blow any oil that may have drained down out of the intake into the cylinders. Especially the #2 & 3 cylinders.

Don’t forget to tighten all the egr bolts back up. Those little metal gaskets make quite a noise if you forget to tighten them down. Good luck.

Hehe.. down under. on top, covered in black and hands are cut from the manifold edges...

Thanks for the tips, yes, there were a few flanges with metal gaskets that were tight and thanks for the glow plug tip.. those pistons must be caked in crap.. this diesel business was good on the pocket until I started spending all the savings on hand cleaner and brake cleaner... resorting to petrol now... hehe. I couldn;t get the oil feed off as easily as I liked, so leaving that for tomorrow and a fresh start.

They say "Alcohol's for drinking, petrol for cleaning and nitro for racing..."

Makes me wonder where diesel fits in?
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Old March 7th, 2018, 04:47   #4
Tdijarhead
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By saying pull the glow plugs I neglected to mention to pull them and crank the engine a couple of times. Have plenty of rags handy. I cranked mine without any rags in place and shot a spray of oil and diesel about 15 feet onto the hood of my wife’s vehicle. Oops.

The oil feed lines tend to be problematic and you should probably have a replacement as a backup. When the lines do come off they are often kinked and useless at that point.

I just reread your pot and realized I’d passed right over this part.

* Scrub human of excess carbon deposits... What a messy job!

Welcome to working on a diesel!

Last edited by Tdijarhead; March 7th, 2018 at 04:51.
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Old March 7th, 2018, 05:47   #5
blis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tdijarhead View Post
By saying pull the glow plugs I neglected to mention to pull them and crank the engine a couple of times. Have plenty of rags handy. I cranked mine without any rags in place and shot a spray of oil and diesel about 15 feet onto the hood of my wife’s vehicle. Oops.
The oil feed lines tend to be problematic and you should probably have a replacement as a backup. When the lines do come off they are often kinked and useless at that point.
I just reread your pot and realized I’d passed right over this part.
* Scrub human of excess carbon deposits... What a messy job!
Welcome to working on a diesel!
Now I reaslise why there's a distinction between mechanics and diesel mechanics. On par with doing CVs and I thought that was messy. Haven't even looked into where the glow plugs are, front / rear? Im a diesel virgin.
I've left the oil lines because I wanted a clear view of the top feed, it was a tight connection so left it until after the removal of the intake manifold and Im pleased that I did, it was quite easy to remove the bolts from under the car.
Im not in a super hurry to get it back together so I'll plan to replace those. I also want to give it a good think on the best way to put it all back too. Easy to remove those long intake bolts, it's gonna be another thing locating them all.
Support is much appreciated, will post a few more pics tomorrow.
[NOTE: For anyone reading this post at a later date..
Many debates regarding removing the turbo from under or above intake only or both. My experience so far, it was easier to remove the intake bolts from below, give everything a clean, might as well if you're doing it for yourself. I've tried to clean the EGR system in the past and it's almost impossible to get off, so this is a good opportunity to give the whole system a once over.]
http://framepoet.org/mk5-polo-1-9-td...al-and-repair/
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Old March 7th, 2018, 06:15   #6
Tdijarhead
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I see in your first pic a marked hand written number of some kind on the turbo elbow. Here in the states that's what salvage lots do when you buy a part from them. Meaning, if the same holds true in Australia the PO may have had turbo problems in the past, and already replaced it once with a used unit.

When posting pics if you look down at the url address and click on it you will have 3 choices small, medium and large. The small is just a thumbnail, the medium fits very nicely in the average computer page and the large while very detailed doesn't fit well and requires scrolling to see it all. Medium is great for all round viewing.
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Old March 7th, 2018, 18:18   #7
blis
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I was looking for the picture image size... will fix. and yes the last time this happened to the Polo they installed a reconditioned one. What suggestions do you have for dealing with this turbo?
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Old March 7th, 2018, 18:48   #8
blis
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Hey Jarhead, I looked high and low for a forum option to resize the pics, even went to Vbulletin to look it up and found that it was not an option other than restricting at the server... Easy enough, resize them on my host
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Old March 7th, 2018, 21:16   #9
blis
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Use a bigger hammer?
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Old March 8th, 2018, 04:20   #10
Tdijarhead
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I didn’t see that you were using an outside picture host. Whatever you did the pics fit perfect now.

That nut is known to be problematic, some cut and weld a specialty wrench to get it off. There are pics on this forum of some of those efforts. Or you can sacrifice the tube, and just cut it and remove the turbo and then get that nut with a socket after the turbo is off.

It’s usually a good idea to replace the oil feed tube anyway and many recommend just that.
When I did mine last year I managed to get the tube off in one piece with no damage but I replaced the tube with a braided steel flex line from cascadegerman.com. The flex line is much easier to install when you put everything back together.

I’m not sure how shipping works to the other side of the world though. It may not be worth it even if it’s possible.

http://www.cascadegerman.com/product...boinstall-alh/

As far as fixing/replacing the turbo. Here in the states most forum members replace theirs with either a good used or new one. Hit and miss success with has been had with rebuilds, which if yours was a rebuild that may be true in your area as well.

Last edited by Tdijarhead; March 8th, 2018 at 04:36.
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Old March 8th, 2018, 05:23   #11
blis
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Default Turbo is out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tdijarhead View Post
I didn’t see that you were using an outside picture host. Whatever you did the pics fit perfect now.
That nut is known to be problematic, some cut and weld a specialty wrench to get it off. There are pics on this forum of some of those efforts. Or you can sacrifice the tube, and just cut it and remove the turbo and then get that nut with a socket after the turbo is off.
It’s usually a good idea to replace the oil feed tube anyway and many recommend just that.
When I did mine last year I managed to get the tube off in one piece with no damage but I replaced the tube with a braided steel flex line from cascadegerman.com. The flex line is much easier to install when you put everything back together.
I’m not sure how shipping works to the other side of the world though. It may not be worth it even if it’s possible.
http://www.cascadegerman.com/product...boinstall-alh/
As far as fixing/replacing the turbo. Here in the states most forum members replace theirs with either a good used or new one. Hit and miss success with has been had with rebuilds, which if yours was a rebuild that may be true in your area as well.
Feed line extraction : Cut, exactly what I did... Have a few Dremels (we race RC cars)

As for rebuild, I don't even expect that to be the case, straight 2nd spare I'd say.. "we live we learn"



Done... The flare was seized onto the insert so the whole thing came out. I'll get a braided flex line for it as the metal one is snaked behind other ones and more work to remove. A fair sacrifice.



As for the Turbo itself.. the cold side is a mess... seized and it's raining impeller pieces all over the desk. Will head out to a local turbo shop and see what they have to say, otherwise I'm considering using www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk in the UK to ship. Shipping from the states is painfully slow and very expensive, unless I use UPS, open to suggestions.





Thanks for the support.

Last edited by blis; March 8th, 2018 at 05:26.
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Old March 8th, 2018, 06:03   #12
Tdijarhead
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Is the impeller still on the exhaust side? My shaft broke and the exhaust side fell into the exhaust pipe. I had to fish it out with a magnet.

UPS works great here in the states. I have no experience with the speed or cost of shipping to Australia. Darkside has a good reputation, you'll have to make that call based on what you're comfortable with.

Last edited by Tdijarhead; March 8th, 2018 at 06:07.
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Old March 8th, 2018, 17:02   #13
blis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tdijarhead View Post
Is the impeller still on the exhaust side? My shaft broke and the exhaust side fell into the exhaust pipe. I had to fish it out with a magnet.

UPS works great here in the states. I have no experience with the speed or cost of shipping to Australia. Darkside has a good reputation, you'll have to make that call based on what you're comfortable with.
I think the same has happened here too... no sign of shaft or hot side impelller at all.

From other peoples experience on rebuilds etc, their consensus is a whole new turbo. That much damage cant be good for a rebuild chards of metal, shaft gone... too much stress on what's supposed to be a precision spinner...

Again, thanks for support, it's forums like these that keeps one motivation pushing forward... Now to rebuild the intake and degrease the ducting.

PS: UPS are the best logistics company in the world.
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Old March 8th, 2018, 19:34   #14
blis
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Local supplier provided a very good deal on new BV39A - Happy days

A better look at nothing...


Cleaned and lubed

Finally got this apart with two ratchets and a good thwap.


Usual practice of replacing troublesome bolts with fresh stainless ones. Just in case I care to remove the EGR for a clean.

1500 wet and dry to clean flange faces.

Lost without them, good hex tools, tap and die to clean up threads and 1/4 sockets

Ran the die over the studs to make life easier later on, and a peek at the ports, I think they need a bit of a clean.

Now onto getting into the exhaust system and find the impeller and shaft!!

Last edited by blis; March 9th, 2018 at 00:26.
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Old March 9th, 2018, 02:49   #15
Tdijarhead
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I like your organization and the cleanup you’ve given everything. Looks like you’ve got everything under control.

Does the PD engine available in your cars over there also have trouble with premature cam wear? I had a belt event at around 280k and in the process of diagnosis discovered my cam was pretty much used up, with sharp edges on 6 of 8 lobes. I bought a used engine and just before putting it in found 2 lobes with a bit of wear so I replaced the cam before I put that engine in.

In case you’re interested.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=477509

The impeller that I fished out of the exhaust had ground off the end of my new oxygen sensor.

How about some pics of your car, red is a good color and the mk5 body style is nice too.

It looks like it’s warm enough to work partially outside?
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