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Dieselgate - VW Group Emission Scandal Discussion around the VW Dieselgate Emissions scandal. Details and news updates can be viewed here: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=448336 This forum is a work in progress depending on requirements, usage, etc.

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Old January 28th, 2018, 13:47   #76
Lightflyer1
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Originally Posted by IndigoBlueWagon View Post
First off it’s more like 30 HP. And 50-60 lb/ft. Second, you shouldn’t reject a tuned car until you drive one. I find the big deal in normal driving is twofold: First, the car is much more responsive off the line. This is especially true with a manual transmission. Second, it pulls far better in top gear at 60+ MPH, dramatically decreasing the need to downshift.

So let’s see...more power, better drive ability, easier on emissions gear, comparable fuel economy. Seems like an easy choice. I understand folks’ concerns about warranty. And if this is an overriding concern then keeping the car stock is probably the best option.

For what it's worth, I never tuned my '12 Golf. 2-door car, usually just me in it. It was light and had adequate power. But in a wagon that I frequently drive with 4 people and luggage, the extra power is a big help. Just like it was when I got my first tune in my '02 Wagon back in '03.
133 to 153 sounds like 20 hp to me from their chart, 47 torque. Also requires DSG programming it says. Cost is nearly $1k for both. You will probably never recover that or even the tune in fuel economy. I am not saying it won't have a little more pep than stock, just it isn't really worth it to me to spend that money just trying to recover a few mpg. My car seems to drive just fine as is. If you are driving a wagon or heavily loaded car all the time then it may be of some use.

So let's see... don't need more power, drives fine as it is, economy about the same, emissions gear covered by VW for 11 years/162k miles, no need to spend $500 to $1k. My choice sounds sound for me. Now if I have emissions trouble and VW isn't straight forward about doing their part my position may change. I am usually alone in my car and empty, opposite from you.
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Old January 28th, 2018, 14:49   #77
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Thanks IBW. Looks like I need to get a tune because I'm seriously considering selling my wagon due to the fix. Even if I only gained 1mpg and it took 20 years to recoup the cost of the tune, that's 20 years of a more enjoyable driving experience compared to post-fix stock.
Loved the way it drove before the fix, so much so that I decided to take the fix even though I'm going to Japan for 3 years in the military. Have to store the car. Now I'm regretting that decision, so we'll see if a tune will salvage it.

Also Stage 2 is + 30hp and +70 torque.

Last edited by joshhol; January 28th, 2018 at 14:52.
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Old January 28th, 2018, 14:54   #78
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Lightflyer1, don't know whose charts you're looking at. With Rocketchip Stage 2 Jeff estimates 180 HP, and on a test drive the car pegged the torque meter in VCDS at 311 lb/ft. Since my car is a manual no DSG tune needed.

It's not about recovering the cost. If I was obsessed with cost I wouldn't have bought the car at all, just would have kept driving my older cars. But of course the decision is yours to make.

joshhol, I drove my GSW when it had its original '15 tune, fixed, and now with RC2. I did notice a significant reduction in low end torque with the fix. RC2 fixes that, and then some. Tunes will be available when you get back from Japan, I'm sure.
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Old January 28th, 2018, 15:49   #79
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Malone tunes. When joshhol first came on the thread he was asking about fuel economy and wrote he wouldn't be interested if he took a hit. Post 67. That is where recovering the cost came from. Evidently he has changed his mind now. He also has a stick so no DSG tune. If you need/want the sportier power they are nice.
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Old January 28th, 2018, 16:02   #80
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Lightflyer, I've only seen people state the FE is the same or slightly better with a tune. Sounds like it tips the scales in favor for me if it restores some of the torque and power lost to the fix without harming FE, not to mention helping out the emissions components. Also, dealers apparently aren't looking at the flash counter and even if they did, it seems to be a relative value.
Unless I'm mistaken about the FE, I think my mind has been consistent.

But I see your point. If you are ok with the way it drives, why spend a grand?

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Old February 5th, 2018, 23:25   #81
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My 02 Jetta 6 speed, even in stock condition, has so much power it puts a smile on my face every time I drive or pass someone on the highway.

My '15 6 speed Jetta (bought new old stock with phase1 fix) is on the opposite coast where I am working for a while. Total letdown, constant need to downshift to 5th and even 4th to accelerate on the highway 60 to 75 etc, even on flat roads.

Every time I flew back to my 02, I was happy. The '15 made me dread driving it, and wish I still had my work gasser rental.

UNITIL I had Rocketchip stage 2 done (merry Xmas to me). Now, everything clicks. Passing abiltiy, accelerate 60 to 80mph UP hill, while staying in 6th gear. Even at lower speeds it drives like a totally different car. Mileage compared to stock is a tad better if I shift for ecpnomy at 1500-1800rpm and don't raise my avergage speed.
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Old February 6th, 2018, 00:21   #82
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My 02 Jetta 6 speed, even in stock condition, has so much power it puts a smile on my face every time I drive or pass someone on the highway.
My '15 6 speed Jetta (bought new old stock with phase1 fix) is on the opposite coast where I am working for a while. Total letdown, constant need to downshift to 5th and even 4th to accelerate on the highway 60 to 75 etc, even on flat roads.
Every time I flew back to my 02, I was happy. The '15 made me dread driving it, and wish I still had my work gasser rental.
UNITIL I had Rocketchip stage 2 done (merry Xmas to me). Now, everything clicks. Passing abiltiy, accelerate 60 to 80mph UP hill, while staying in 6th gear. Even at lower speeds it drives like a totally different car. Mileage compared to stock is a tad better if I shift for ecpnomy at 1500-1800rpm and don't raise my avergage speed.
Yeah that stock 90 hp and 155 torque is really "so much power". I can see you enjoy driving it but come on with the so much power schtick. My 2003 Beetle was slow, stock and even with a Malone tune it wasn't powerful. 150hp and 236 torque (2015) doesn't even compare? Must be something wrong with your car. Very close in weight too. Nothing wrong with getting a tune and nothing wrong with a stock car either. They drive just fine either way. One has just a little more power. We have 80 mph speed limits here and I have never had any trouble passing anyone at 60 to 100 mph. No mountains around so I can't speak to that aspect. I have had tuning boxes, Rocketchip tunes and Malone tunes on various cars over the years. Other than bragging rights I have never felt they were really needed for normal driving. Unlike you I feel my current 2015 new left over Beetle is head and tails above any of the 5 or so stock Jettas/Beetles (alh/bew/brm, tuned/untuned) I have owned over the years. My current Beetle probably could use a DSG tune as it is a little weird and people say that alone makes the car drive much better. I will probably get one of those over an engine tune at some point.
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Old February 6th, 2018, 05:41   #83
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y2kbird, did you swap a 6-speed into your '02 TDI? If not it was a five speed. And I think you'd find the '15 is nearly as responsive in 5th as the '02 was. Tall gearing takes the stuffing out these cars in top gear. However, a tune does help, a lot.
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Old February 6th, 2018, 08:08   #84
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Lightflyer, I've only seen people state the FE is the same or slightly better with a tune. Sounds like it tips the scales in favor for me if it restores some of the torque and power lost to the fix without harming FE, not to mention helping out the emissions components. Also, dealers apparently aren't looking at the flash counter and even if they did, it seems to be a relative value.
Unless I'm mistaken about the FE, I think my mind has been consistent.

But I see your point. If you are ok with the way it drives, why spend a grand?

I'd wager with a tune you can get the same if not better mpgs, but around town it takes quite a bit of restraint not to enjoy the feeling off the line a tune provides.

On long highway runs, a tune hasn't provided any worse mileage of our fixed 15 compared to our non fixed '12.
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Old February 8th, 2018, 11:28   #85
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y2kbird, did you swap a 6-speed into your '02 TDI? If not it was a five speed. And I think you'd find the '15 is nearly as responsive in 5th as the '02 was. Tall gearing takes the stuffing out these cars in top gear. However, a tune does help, a lot.

my 02 was born with 01M slushbox, then a 5sp swap, then a 6sp swap. So it did have the bigger injection pump from the factory, and a mild injector upgrade to sprint 520's by the prior owner, and RC2+ by me. stock turbo running strong with nearly 300k on the clock. Either way I was heartbroken comparing the new 15 jetta to the power my 02 ALH has.... until last month when I got it tuned.
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Old February 9th, 2018, 21:13   #86
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So your 02 had 150 HP, due to larger injectors? No offense, but I'm somewhat doubtful of that.
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Old February 18th, 2018, 16:54   #87
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Got the Malone stage 1, no regrets, it is fantastic. Posted in the Gen 1 issues/impressions threads. This is a must have for anyone not satisfied with post fix driving characteristics. That would be almost everyone except Lightflyer1 jkjk
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